Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Old story which Helios 58 mm
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tuorum wrote:
Mr.Bittacy wrote:
For my two cents, I have owned the 44-m7 (be careful to get one that isn’t a fake) 44-m4 and an early silver KMZ 13 blade aperture model.


Fake? How can you tell? I am currently awaiting a 44m-7 8-blade which is a type I hadn't seen being sold until recently. I have a 44m-4 which is pretty sharp. Sharper wide open than my Minolta 50/1.7 @ f2. Not as sharp as this Auto Revuenon 55mm/2 that resembles Tomioka and is indeed razor sharp wide open.


I did a ton of research in old threads and never really got a certain answer, the prevailing wisdom seems to be that the actual m-7 should have a thinner focus ring, no auto stop down lever and a serial number higher than 93 but this was debated. You can also spot a fake by comparing the printing on the id plate.

It seems the reason some people fake the m-7 is because the highest resolving “best” lenses were designated as the m-7 with the m-6 model being the lower resolving samples. Who knows though, makes sense to me but I doubt anyone knows for sure. My m-7 was a good lens but I didn’t think it was sharper than my m-4 and I ended up only keeping the early 13 blade aperture Helios because I preferred its rendering and didn’t like the handling of the m-7.

Andrew


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tuorum wrote:

Fake? How can you tell? I am currently awaiting a 44m-7 8-blade which is a type I hadn't seen being sold until recently.

I'm fairly sure 8-blade 44m-7 is not a thing. You will likely get 44M with a custom name plate.
Do you have a sellers photo of this Frankenstein to share?


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 44m has a different body a bit larger with more and finer less pronounced knurls and no window in the distance ring. It also has an a/m switch. The m-4/5/6/7 don't Here is a 44mm (left) vs a 44m-6 (same body as the m-4 m-7).
They simply replace the 44m name ring with a 44-m7 one. Usually not even an original one.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aidaho wrote:
tuorum wrote:

Fake? How can you tell? I am currently awaiting a 44m-7 8-blade which is a type I hadn't seen being sold until recently.

I'm fairly sure 8-blade 44m-7 is not a thing. You will likely get 44M with a custom name plate.
Do you have a sellers photo of this Frankenstein to share?


Here's the link (which I know will vanish at some point): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Helios-44M-7-MC-Soviet-lens-f-2-58mm-M42-MOUNT-8-blades-2-caps/263226642022?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

And here are the pics they have attached in the description (for when it does disappear).

#1


#2


#3


#4


Any opinions appreciated. To me, the aperture looks backwards, however I have a Montgomery Ward 28/2.8 that is the same way, so *shrug*.
No, I don't care if I got ripped off, I just had to see this 8-blade deal, since almost everything 44m-X had been 6-blade, and 8-blade was what seemed to be the draw to the 44-2. I paid more for a decent shape but -ish IQ Cosinon because I had to see what this lens with a low serial number (C4421) would be like.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tuorum wrote:
Any opinions appreciated.

That's exactly 44M with the 44-M7 name ring.
44-Mx all have shrouded distance scale - only the part above the DOF scale is open, and there's "M" mark to the left of the opening.
Also there is no M/A switch (which is visible on the pictures you've provided) on any of the 44-Mx, they are all auto only.

UPD: oh, D1N0 had written all that before Embarassed


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I'm not going to argue at the price, since the 8-blade aperture is what I was mostly after. But seller is definitely going to get a note about that. Not exactly sure what their goal was. The price was still decent enough for either model. *shrug*


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think they use an m-7 name ring. They would have to devaluate an m-7 for that. The name ring is after market. The lettering on my m-6 is much better than on that ebay 'm-7'

Helios 44m-6 58mm 1:2 (Valdai) by The lens profile, on Flickr


PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I especially like that Valdai lens with KMZ rear and LZOS front caps.
Not that it wouldn't be possible in real life, but it's funny.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex TG wrote:
I especially like that Valdai lens with KMZ rear and LZOS front caps.
Not that it wouldn't be possible in real life, but it's funny.

Yes, it is a mix of labels for sure.
I suspect that the Valdai bezel may be an add-on too, so the lens could have come from KMZ as a 44M
I think that the 44m-4 onwards had 6 blades aperture.
Did LZOS manufacture Helios 44 of any sort?
Anyway, how does it shoot will be the question to answer.

Should be a good lens regardless
Tom


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
I suspect that the Valdai bezel may be an add-on too

It definitely is.

Oldhand wrote:
Did LZOS manufacture Helios 44 of any sort?

No.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex TG wrote:
Oldhand wrote:
I suspect that the Valdai bezel may be an add-on too

It definitely is.

Oldhand wrote:
Did LZOS manufacture Helios 44 of any sort?

No.


Well there you go.
It is a 44M with extra bits.
How does it shoot is the question that only the owner can answer.
Happy snaps
Tom


PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Theoretically it's supposed to be on it's way from Moscow with an estimated delivery of (GADS) April 13th. So will have to wait a while for it. I'll have to open a new topic on it.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
well I haven't seen orange lettering on a helios before. All mine have yellow, but maybe they shifted the yellow slider a bit :p


PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Speacking about the Helios 44-X, I had noted that the version with more pics in the net taken with and more artículos written of is the M-4.

Has the M-4 any characteristic than makes it different to the other versions?


PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
papasito wrote:
Has the M-4 any characteristic than makes it different to the other versions?

Yes, just the sheer quantity of them made.
Well, actually 44-2 and 44M were also produced in great numbers, but 44M-4 is the only multicoated model of those three.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex TG wrote:
papasito wrote:
Has the M-4 any characteristic than makes it different to the other versions?

Yes, just the sheer quantity of them made.
Well, actually 44-2 and 44M were also produced in great numbers, but 44M-4 is the only multicoated model of those three.


Thank you. Very logic .


PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a 44k4 and is very sharp wo, but needs some grease replacement. Also, it's a lens thats got some character , depending the conditions... (Tunnel like), I assume like most Helios -4


PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't get the Helios 44-2 hate. I received mine for free from my father. I use this lens primarily for the bokeh and for portraits. The 13 blade aperture of the earlier 44 is ideal, but that lens costs more. The 8 aperture blades of the 44-2 and the preset make it a second best for me. I just peep the aperture blades slightly making the lens f/2.2 or f/2.4 or something like that. The aperture is still perfectly round and the sharpness is improved the contrast is restored and there is a tiny light penalty but fantastic bokeh remains. The element is deeply recessed giving a built in lens hood. Mine produces great colors and is sharper than i expected.

Other versions have slightly better corner sharpness? Irrelevant for me as I primarily use it as a portrait lens and on APS-C. I normally use the lens between wide open and f/2.8. Sometimes at f/4 and almost never stopped down more than that, but I have compared it against a modern lens and at f/8 it's sharp corner to corner and almost matches a $1000 Fuji prime.

Although it more than capable with landscapes. I think this is f/4.



Last edited by cbass on Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
I don't get the Helios 44-2 hate. I received mine for free from my father. I use this lens primarily for the bokeh and for portraits. The 13 blade aperture of the earlier 44 is ideal, but that lens costs more. The 8 aperture blades of the 44-2 and the preset make it a second best for me. I just peep the aperture blades slightly making the lens f/2.2 or f/2.4 or something like that. The aperture is still perfectly round and the sharpness is improved the contrast is restored and there is a tiny light penalty but fantastic bokeh remains. The element is deeply recessed giving a built in lens hood. Mine produces great colors and is sharper than i expected.

Other versions have slightly better corner sharpness? Irrelevant for me and; I primarily use it as a portrait lens and on APS-C. I normally use the lens between wide open and f/2.8. Sometimes at f/4 and almost never stopped down more than that, but I have compared it against a modern lens and at f/8 it's sharp corner to corner and almost matches a $1000 Fuji prime.

Although it more than capable with landscapes. I think this is f/4.



Very nice and sharp pic. Thanks.

What"s the s/n of your 8 blades Helios 44-2?


PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's 77700XX. From the logo it looks like it was made in the JOV/Valdai. At this point I am unsure if JOV/Valdai is the same plant or not. However it has a logo that looks like an arrow with a circle and another symbol.

Recently I got another 44-2 from a friend that went to eastern Europe and brought me back some lenses. That one was made in the same plant with a serial number of 831576XX. Optically they perform identical to me although I didn't do any formal testing. I asked him for a helios 40 but he brought me this. He took the time on his vacation to go lens shopping for me so I won't complain and the lens is mint; no oil on the aperture blades. Really good friend.

I think if you get a lens with clean optics and in good shape, then you will be fine. Personally, I think an 8 bladed aperture is worth considering depending on price.

Another sample from the 777 lens SOOC jpeg. I don't remember if this was just an aperture peep or stopped down, but looks like it was probably stopped down to maybe f/2.8 or even f/4



If you want to see the full resolution. How are people adding embedded photos in their posts that takes you to flickr for the full resolution image?

https://flic.kr/p/26JVc6A


PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
It's 77700XX. From the logo it looks like it was made in the JOV/Valdai. At this point I am unsure if JOV/Valdai is the same plant or not. However it has a logo that looks like an arrow with a circle and another symbol.

Recently I got another 44-2 from a friend that went to eastern Europe and brought me back some lenses. That one was made in the same plant with a serial number of 831576XX. Optically they perform identical to me although I didn't do any formal testing. I asked him for a helios 40 but he brought me this. He took the time on his vacation to go lens shopping for me so I won't complain and the lens is mint; no oil on the aperture blades. Really good friend.

I think if you get a lens with clean optics and in good shape, then you will be fine. Personally, I think an 8 bladed aperture is worth considering depending on price.

Another sample from the 777 lens SOOC jpeg. I don't remember if this was just an aperture peep or stopped down, but looks like it was probably stopped down to maybe f/2.8 or even f/4



If you want to see the full resolution. How are people adding embedded photos in their posts that takes you to flickr for the full resolution image?

https://flic.kr/p/26JVc6A


Thank you.

The cat is very sharp with nice and clean colors.

I asked you the for the s/n because a very old friend of mine, told me that the 44-2 yo sell is

1- chrome 44
2- 44-2 witt serial number 7x,xxx,xxx.
And tour pic seems to speack un the same way


PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
papasito wrote:

I asked you the for the s/n because a very old friend of mine, told me that the 44-2 yo sell is

1- chrome 44
2- 44-2 witt serial number 7x,xxx,xxx.
And tour pic seems to speack un the same way


Are you saying serial numbers 7x,xxx,xxx are supposed to be good or are supposed to be bad?

Since I got another 44-2 copy with a different serial number. I have to say I don't think it matters. The second Helios 44-2 is just as good as the one I received from my father.

Here is a 100% crop from the second Helios 44-2 with serial 831576XX. Shutter speed 1/125. ISO 1250. Aperture peep so f/2.2- f/2.4 but fully round because of 8 blades. SOOC Jpeg. Fuji X-T1.

I personally don't need anything sharper or more saturated with how I use the lens. For me this lens is all about the bokeh and rendering. I can't imagine how much better things can get if you have a better helios than a crappy 44-2, but I am willing to look at pictures and learn.



PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also, don't forget these lenses can be stopped down. Here is a shot a f/4. Nothing special as a picture. However, I would say that tree is extremely sharp and the bokeh still pleasing.



PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Also, don't forget these lenses can be stopped down.

Indeed, Helios 44 series is often pimped as a one trick pony, all the while it really isn't.
Stopped down, bokeh smoothness is one of the best in class, in my opinion.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I will let Russian lens/Helios experts correct me if I am wrong because I am just speculating here.

However, some of these lenses like the Helios 44-2 and other variants were produced in different plants and their production spanned decades. For example, the Helios 44-2 was made from the 1970s or slightly before that and then to like 1983 or slightly after and during that production they also made 44M variants. Why would they make both lenses if the later lenses were improvements to the optical formula or coatings? If they did make improvements to coatings or glass or optical formula then why would they not use them across the models?

I looked at the two Helios 44-2 lenses that I have and the coating is very similar but different. One reflects a orange hue and the other a deep purple and orange. I also see the same thing in an ebay listing of 44M-4's.I stole this photo and put it in my flicker account so when the ebay listening ends and expires people can still see it.



They are all 44m-4's. Produced in various plants probably at various times. Only one is labeled MC. I see one with a orange looking coating. One with a red coating and two which I am unable to determine. Ebay listing here while available:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Helios-44m-4-EXC-58mm-f2-Russian-Bokeh-portrait-Lens-DSLR-M42-Mount-Canon-Old/132904601908?hash=item1ef1bb4934:g:iY4AAOSwXtNaeaWy

Personally even if the model number is the same I don't think they used the same coatings or the same glass as they were produced over time. Therefore, I don't think you can generalize performance based on the model alone.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4