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Battle of my 50s and one Helios :)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Battle of my 50s and one Helios :) Reply with quote
https://plus.google.com/113407955698284387516/posts/D1netcR2qCi
Well, this is a small test of 5 lenses I have. I was wondering which one to sell but now maybe I'll keep them.
The images can be downloaded in 100% from the options bellow everyone.
Lenses are:
SMC Pentax M 50 1.7
SMC Pentax FA 50 1.4
KMZ Zenitar-M 50 1.7
KMZ Helios 44-2
CZJ Pancolar 50 1.8 MC
The images are taken in PEF with my K200D and are converted with sharpness 0 and everything was the same (speeds, WB, Exposure, ....).


PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Battle of my 50s and one Helios :) Reply with quote
simbon4o wrote:
https://plus.google.com/113407955698284387516/posts/D1netcR2qCi
Well, this is a small test of 5 lenses I have. I was wondering which one to sell but now maybe I'll keep them.
The images can be downloaded in 100% from the options bellow everyone.
Lenses are:
SMC Pentax M 50 1.7
SMC Pentax FA 50 1.4
KMZ Zenitar-M 50 1.7
KMZ Helios 44-2
CZJ Pancolar 50 1.8 MC
The images are taken in PEF with my K200D and are converted with sharpness 0 and everything was the same (speeds, WB, Exposure, ....).

Sharpness is not everything Smile
You also have to compare the bokeh and the overall character

I would keep the Helios and the Pentax FA

Last edited by ForenSeil on Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I was finished with the resolution tests and this one was only for comparing bokeh and render. I must do some more tests at bigger distance from the target, but first must have some more free time.
And about the keeping Smile:
1. If the FA 50 1.4 was MF I was going to sell it at the moment! It is not very good with the contrast, CA, resolution, ... almost unusable at 1.4.
2. The helios is nice and strange but the resolution is very poor and the colors are not nice as the Pancolar's which is the one with the same curved bokeh as the helios, but much better in everything else. I'm keeping the helios for some experiments Smile.
3. Actually The pancolar might be the best in CA control, Fringe control, ... resolution stopped down to F16, ... great lens! Very good in open and closed apertures which makes it different from the others who are good in open or closed. And it have some magical effect in some situations - very good for portraits!

You see, it just concentrates the attention to the center of the frame.
4. About the Zenitar-M, well it is new for me and I was kind'a scared that my 50s are so many now and decided to do this test to compare it to the others. The idea was to sell it if I don't like it but... when I saw the test I thought it is unique with it's gaus blurred bokeh. Very interesting lens. Mechanicaly - another Russian crap, optically - very interesting lens!
5. The Pentax M - my favourite night shooting device Smile great lens, better optically then the FA 50 1.4, absolutely no CA(info from the resolution test )

Great resolution, very small and well build, great SMC - very difficult to have flare and great contrast against light sources, fits perfect on my tiny film camera(ME Super), love this lens!
Here is why I like it a lot for night shots:

It just makes the air to disappear and renders the OOF so smoothly. During the day it behaves like Planar 50 1.7 but sharper Smile.

Last edited by simbon4o on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@simbon4o: those are very cool & beautiful shots! Love the rendering, tone, lighting & the model Smile .... and the bokeh too!


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nixland wrote:
@simbon4o: those are very cool & beautiful shots! Love the rendering, tone, lighting & the model Smile .... and the bokeh too!


+10 who care test charts Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Those images are truly fantastic, I'm in awe! Shocked Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
10x guys!
I have tried today the zenitar in the park - I'm truly fascinated! Will post some later.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Surprised Surprised Surprised


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed, never mind the test charts, the photos are what counts (and what a great samples they are!)


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 for screw the test charts.

The pancolar sample has a weird bokeh. The light dots seem to have an elliptical shape and their orientation appears to be aligned with circles centered in the picture geometric center. It creates a weird feeling, I'll be honest, I don't like the effect.

I've seen a lot of 50mm f1.7 pentax lenses on ebay for rather low price, do I don't know if can get much from it. That sample is indeed beautiful, but there's much more to it than a good lens (subject, light conditions, photographer, camera).

If you decide to sell the pentax anyway, how much do you want for it?

PS:I do realize that by making this question my opinion becomes a bit suspicious.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I really enjoy the fairy tale bokeh of the pancolar pic Smile

The best solution is to keep all Twisted Evil
You won't get much for most of them.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's exactly what is going to happen - keep them all! Smile And I must buy bigger bag!

jito about the pentax M 50 1.7... it is very easy to get lens from everywhere. In my country there is one for sale almost each week. The 1.4 is something that I must keep because of it's AF(better for work when nobody can wait). About the 1.7 - don't go for the 2.0 version it is very poor performer, search for the 1.7!
SMC Pentax M 50 1.4 is nice one too, more expensive but just a little, 8 blade diaphragm(better usability of closed apertures, the 1.7 is very strange in bokeh closed down because of it's 6 blade iris. Not a big deal btw, mine is wide open most of the time), 1.4 is a little softer wide open then 1.7 version but much better then AF version and better build too(looks like the M 50 1.7, just a little bigger).
About the prices.. according to the current values of the US dollar here in Bulgaria, SMC M 50 1.7 will cost here in about 55-60$. I think it is quite a performer for the price!


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I always get great results from the pentax smc 1.7 i have two an a and an m model both great veryvsharp and a nice smooth bokeh very sharp wide open.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yes the A version is nice too! They share the same optics.

Here is as I promised samples from the zenitar-m 50 1.7, they all are wide open F1.7:



What a smoother! This Russian has the smoothest and neutral bokeh ever seen!


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What a stunning model that zenitar looks very nice, number 2 is a great shot the eyes are so captivating, i can almost see in to her soul.
I dont think i could discard any of these lenses each has a great character.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
wow! great portraits! lucky Simeon Very Happy
I found also very nice film series in your galleries


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice samples.

Regarding the FA50/1.4,
I have currently 2 copies of this lens. You may need to fine adjust AF on your DSLR (k20/k7/k5).
The lens is very capable at f1.4 once the fine adjustment has set. Also when you AF with this lens, becareful where the focus point is pointed to. I often ended by having the hair sharp, but eyes OOF, it's about knowing how the camera works under certain condition. However in dim light, or back light, low contrast, the AF is more less useless on K20. K5 with AF assist is ok.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
eddieitman wrote:
What a stunning model that zenitar looks very nice, number 2 is a great shot the eyes are so captivating, i can almost see in to her soul.
I dont think i could discard any of these lenses each has a great character.


+10

Be sure to keep the model Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks to all about the comments!

About the AF pentax - I know how to focus with it. The body is K200D, it is the worst AF body since 2008th , the problem is not about adjustment, the body misses focus very often because of many reasons. The problem with FA 50 1.4 is that on 1.4 it is very soft and there is too much halo effect even with a hood(this makes the AF crazy). I always use it with hood and if there is sun and contrast situations I use a CPL filter to calm the bokeh and OOF render. The lens is not bad closed down to 2.0-2.2, even the bokeh is still circular. But wide open... I don't like it! In almost every situation the render is too busy and nervous, contrast is very low, when shoot in low light for example night shots it makes awful bokeh especially if the lights in the background are powerful.
That's why I'm keeping that lens onl for the AF Smile


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you need best f1.4 for K-mount, the options are MF: A50/1.2 or K50/1.2, but step down to f1.4. I see these went for the same price as the FA50/1.4 occationally. More expensive options that i don't have are DA55/1.4 or Sigma50/1.4

Mamiya 55/1.4, Tak/K50/1.4 are my choices. Pentax M 50/1.4, nikkor ais 50/1.4 or canon fd 50/1.4 stay behind the Mamiya. My nikkor 50/1.4 had been modified to fit K mount bodies.

I agree that the FA50/1.4 is soft at f1.4.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
About the Zenitar-M...Mechanicaly - another Russian crap


Beautiful images but I can not understand this. I've owned 4 zenitars, 2 zebra pancolars, 1 mc pancolar, and 3 pentacon MC 50s (which are mechanically very similar to the late pancolars) and I would rate the zenitar the best. What are your complaints?


PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
Quote:
About the Zenitar-M...Mechanicaly - another Russian crap


Beautiful images but I can not understand this. I've owned 4 zenitars, 2 zebra pancolars, 1 mc pancolar, and 3 pentacon MC 50s (which are mechanically very similar to the late pancolars) and I would rate the zenitar the best. What are your complaints?

Well as a start the focus ring is so hard, the parts are very unprecize made, the paint is not like on the MC Pancolar 50 1.8, the marks are written very roughly, the moving parts have gaps between them and they play a little(the pancolar have that too but a little less), the aperture blades are polished very roughly... everything in this lens says that it is a war weapon not a precise art instrument. Maybe my SMC M lenses have made me very critical for this kind of stuff Smile, they are like made from very tiny people with very tiny machines and they are such a mechanical masterpieces with good looks!
The zenitar is like... if I don't shoot with it I can never tell what a lens it will be, from the outside it looks as the others helioses and other Russians - not good Smile. When you grab it - It is heavier then late helios 44, when you shoot for a while you know that it is not like any other Russian lens. My point is that the looks lies Wink. My first shots with it was pretty shocking, I started to search for information about it. It didn't look like East German lens and I was pretty sure it was not a Russian work. After some hours I found some very interesting Japanese twins of it like Chinon 50 1.7, then some friends told me that in some years some Japanese factories were working with Russian optical glass and that's when I started to think that it can make sense. Zenitar 50 1.7 looks like some tomioka, cosina, ... lenses and shoots like them, but more creamier and smoothy. After all it is not a bad lens! I think that it's strengths are in the open apertures and it's unique character wide open. Closed down The Pancolar and SMCs are better! I'm sure that I'll keep it!
PS If you have owned 4 zenitars, were they all the same? This shows my point again - all SMC Ms are the same there are no bad or good copies - this is how those things should be done!

Quote:
If you need best f1.4 for K-mount, the options are MF: A50/1.2 or K50/1.2, but step down to f1.4. I see these went for the same price as the FA50/1.4 occationally. More expensive options that i don't have are DA55/1.4 or Sigma50/1.4

Mamiya 55/1.4, Tak/K50/1.4 are my choices. Pentax M 50/1.4, nikkor ais 50/1.4 or canon fd 50/1.4 stay behind the Mamiya. My nikkor 50/1.4 had been modified to fit K mount bodies.

I agree that the FA50/1.4 is soft at f1.4.


Man if I find 50 1.2 for the price of the FA 50 1.4 I'm buying! The Tak 50 1.4 is great at resolution but I think that the problem with busy and nervous bokeh stays! I don't know about the Mamiya but the others you wrote here are the same in this criteria and that automatically removes them from my lists Smile. The SMC M 50 1.4 is a little different but not enough. Minoltas are almost fine too. Problem is that I like neutral to smooth bokeh and it is rare Smile.

nkanellopoulos wrote:
eddieitman wrote:
What a stunning model that zenitar looks very nice, number 2 is a great shot the eyes are so captivating, i can almost see in to her soul.
I dont think i could discard any of these lenses each has a great character.


+10

Be sure to keep the model Laughing


That is 100% guaranteed Smile


PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
simbon4o wrote:
themoleman342 wrote:
Quote:
About the Zenitar-M...Mechanicaly - another Russian crap


Beautiful images but I can not understand this. I've owned 4 zenitars, 2 zebra pancolars, 1 mc pancolar, and 3 pentacon MC 50s (which are mechanically very similar to the late pancolars) and I would rate the zenitar the best. What are your complaints?

Well as a start the focus ring is so hard, the parts are very unprecize made, the paint is not like on the MC Pancolar 50 1.8, the marks are written very roughly, the moving parts have gaps between them and they play a little(the pancolar have that too but a little less), the aperture blades are polished very roughly... everything in this lens says that it is a war weapon not a precise art instrument. Maybe my SMC M lenses have made me very critical for this kind of stuff Smile, they are like made from very tiny people with very tiny machines and they are such a mechanical masterpieces with good looks!
The zenitar is like... if I don't shoot with it I can never tell what a lens it will be, from the outside it looks as the others helioses and other Russians - not good Smile. When you grab it - It is heavier then late helios 44, when you shoot for a while you know that it is not like any other Russian lens. My point is that the looks lies Wink. My first shots with it was pretty shocking, I started to search for information about it. It didn't look like East German lens and I was pretty sure it was not a Russian work. After some hours I found some very interesting Japanese twins of it like Chinon 50 1.7, then some friends told me that in some years some Japanese factories were working with Russian optical glass and that's when I started to think that it can make sense. Zenitar 50 1.7 looks like some tomioka, cosina, ... lenses and shoots like them, but more creamier and smoothy. After all it is not a bad lens! I think that it's strengths are in the open apertures and it's unique character wide open. Closed down The Pancolar and SMCs are better! I'm sure that I'll keep it!
PS If you have owned 4 zenitars, were they all the same? This shows my point again - all SMC Ms are the same there are no bad or good copies - this is how those things should be done!



What's so bad with the focus not being loose?
It is tighter than most Helios lenses, but IMO it only helps you to get very accurate focus, which is crucial when shooting on wide aperture values.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Battle of my 50s and one Helios :) Reply with quote
simbon4o wrote:
https://plus.google.com/113407955698284387516/posts/D1netcR2qCi
Well, this is a small test of 5 lenses I have. I was wondering which one to sell but now maybe I'll keep them.
The images can be downloaded in 100% from the options bellow everyone.
Lenses are:
SMC Pentax M 50 1.7
SMC Pentax FA 50 1.4
KMZ Zenitar-M 50 1.7
KMZ Helios 44-2
CZJ Pancolar 50 1.8 MC
The images are taken in PEF with my K200D and are converted with sharpness 0 and everything was the same (speeds, WB, Exposure, ....).


Over time, one can begin to appreciate the subtleties that distinguish the lenses, even if all look fairly good. With lenses of this class, the differences are going to be subtle.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Since you like Pentax lenses, I suggest you try the smck 50/1.4, smcm 50/1.4, smca 50/1.4, smck and smca 50/1.2, and the smck55/1.8
all good lenses.
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