View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:23 pm Post subject: Adobe Creative Cloud |
|
|
Orio wrote:
It seems that from now on, you can not buy boxed Adobe products anymore, nor upgrade to them.
Instead, you need to subscribe to a "Creative Cloud" thing that requires a monthly fee to be paid and
requires you to check in to the Internet every 30 days else your subscription will fail and your software will vanish in vapor.
I say they must be nuts.
Don't they know that there are photographers who work in outer locations where they might not be able to go online every 30 days?
Supremely stupid! _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html
Last edited by Orio on Sat May 11, 2013 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RSalles
Joined: 12 Aug 2012 Posts: 1372 Location: Brazil - RS / South
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RSalles wrote:
Orio,
Agree!
Well, i'm +/- prepared to the possibility to get back to Linux with no regrets.
Life has an end, marriage sometimes too, Adobe Photoshop Lightroom can go and I'll not die 'cause of this.
I can already do the same things in Linux as I do with LR in Windows - not as fast, but i can, with Gimp, Darktable, RawTherapee...
600 US$ per year = 1 top dreamed lens per year or camera upgrade.
Renato |
|
Back to top |
|
|
philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
philslizzy wrote:
This is what Microsoft is doing with office. It is a great anti counterfeit measure.
I see that more programs are going the 'cloud' way and I fear that everything else will be reduced to an 'app' so we are totally at the mercy of the software people.
Keep your discs and run old software or learn new Linux based programs. _________________ Hero in the 'messin-with-cameras-for-the-hell-of-it department'. Official. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Arkku
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Arkku wrote:
Well, Photoshop's core features have been so good for so long that they've already had to resort to some unpleasant tactics to force people to pay for upgrades (e.g., Camera Raw only working with the most recent version). I suppose the forced subscription model is just a continuation of this… Great for Adobe, surely, since the money will keep flowing in. Bad for customers, since Adobe no longer has any real need to continually impress the customers with new features; have to keep paying even to use an old version.
But of course there will be cracks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Attila wrote:
Arkku wrote: |
Well, Photoshop's core features have been so good for so long that they've already had to resort to some unpleasant tactics to force people to pay for upgrades (e.g., Camera Raw only working with the most recent version). I suppose the forced subscription model is just a continuation of this… Great for Adobe, surely, since the money will keep flowing in. Bad for customers, since Adobe no longer has any real need to continually impress the customers with new features; have to keep paying even to use an old version.
But of course there will be cracks. |
+1 long time ago every giant would push customers to 'cloud' it called network computing before , Microsoft was frontier against it , due it's semi crap operating system required upgrade without force but it is changed with XP , XP is an excellent operating system even with little issues and not require any more non-stop upgrade so have to do something to gather money. Office did kill successfully competitors and honestly 10 yrs old version just same good or even better than latest one. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aanything wrote:
I'm quite upset with this, since I really do need after effects for work, I have already bought a couple of "production premium suite" versions (and it was not cheap), but at least I could choose to upgrade when I could afford it and stay with the older version when i couldn't.
It's possible that I will spend not much more per year than I did so far, but the fact that I can't decide when to spend makes me quite angry. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Orio wrote:
In my view, the worst part of all is this:
Say you have CS6 now, box version. You subscribe to cloud, 25 Euros per month, and you keep doing that for, say, 6 years.
Which could be equivalent to having bought upgrades to CS7, CS8 and CS9.
If in the 5th year, you stop the subscription, you don't have CS9 in your hands. You are left with CS6!
(which, in the meantime, might not even work anymore with your new Windows version)
Even worse, if you don't have Photoshop yet and start buying it with this cloud version.
You may spend something like 300 or 400 Euros per year, for, say, 5 years, but when you stop subscribing,
you are left with absolutely nothing!
And you have spent (for 5 years) 2000 Euros, in order to be left with nothing. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aanything wrote:
Orio wrote: |
In my view, the worst part of all is this:
Say you have CS6 now, box version. You subscribe to cloud, 25 Euros per month, and you keep doing that for, say, 6 years.
Which could be equivalent to having bought upgrades to CS7, CS8 and CS9.
If in the 5th year, you stop the subscription, you don't have CS9 in your hands. You are left with CS6!
(which, in the meantime, might not even work anymore with your new Windows version)
Even worse, if you don't have Photoshop yet and start buying it with this cloud version.
You may spend something like 300 or 400 Euros per year, for, say, 5 years, but when you stop subscribing,
you are left with absolutely nothing!
And you have spent (for 5 years) 2000 Euros, in order to be left with nothing. |
True, that's quite bad. In the end, the (many) ones I work with that use adobe products since years and never bought a licensed copy did a wise choice. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Excalibur wrote:
Orio wrote: |
In my view, the worst part of all is this:
Say you have CS6 now, box version. You subscribe to cloud, 25 Euros per month, and you keep doing that for, say, 6 years.
Which could be equivalent to having bought upgrades to CS7, CS8 and CS9.
If in the 5th year, you stop the subscription, you don't have CS9 in your hands. You are left with CS6!
(which, in the meantime, might not even work anymore with your new Windows version)
Even worse, if you don't have Photoshop yet and start buying it with this cloud version.
You may spend something like 300 or 400 Euros per year, for, say, 5 years, but when you stop subscribing,
you are left with absolutely nothing!
And you have spent (for 5 years) 2000 Euros, in order to be left with nothing. |
Well don't forget, for using Photoshop you could earn 1000's of euros each year and for tax purposes the software would be under expenses. The amateur is the loser and will increase piracy. _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2187 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
|
Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Aanything wrote:
Excalibur wrote: |
Well don't forget, for using Photoshop you could earn 1000's of euros each year and for tax purposes the software would be under expenses. The amateur is the loser and will increase piracy. |
I know that very well (since I really make a significant part of my income working on one specific adobe software - and also teaching it), but, nonetheless, I'd like much better buying a new version every 3-4 years (spending the same, or even a little more) knowing that I won't be unable to work if, for a month, I can't afford the subscritpion renewal - especially considering that the thousands euros I do with AE often are paid many months after I worked.
That said, I will obviously pay what has to be paid in the ways they want: I'd never use something that makes me earn money without paying what has to be paid for it, and I pretty much understand the principle according to which they're free to decide what I have to pay for using the tool they created. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
My Flickr |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Orio wrote:
Sorry but I think that no one is getting the real point there - which is: Adobe is shifting Photoshop from being a product into being a service.
This implicitly means that you're not buying a license to a copy anymore - you're paying for a service. A rental service.
The difference?
Very simply put: you money doesn't buy you anything.
It simply borrows it, in the most optimistic view.
It's money for nothing.
Think of the difference that there is between buying a DVD of a film, and renting it.
Once you buy the DVD, you can see it as many times as you like, whenever you like.
When you rent it, you have to see it within the timeframe, and past it, if you want to see it again, you need to pay for it again.
Well, with Photoshop it's worse than that, because Photoshop is not a one-time consumer product, like a show, and it's not a service, like a taxi;
Photoshop is an instrument. It's a product whose reason to be implies repeated instrumental use. You are supposed to use it.
Yet, it is now sold as something that you would consume instead.
The whole thing does not make sense.
Think if you'd go to a hardware store and ask for a drill, and the clerk says "sorry, I can't sell it to you,
but for the same sum that it's worth I can lend it to you for one year time".
Now seriously tell me that you wouldn't send the clerk to hell. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
twinquartz
Joined: 11 Jun 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Sweden
Expire: 2013-10-29
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
twinquartz wrote:
Some interesting insights:
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2013/20130508_3-Adobe-Cloud.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nurkov
Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Posts: 711 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-03-09
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nurkov wrote:
it does make sense but only for them, another way of extracting money. _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/34787419@N08/
Minolta and Canon user |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fermy wrote:
Well, I sure as hell am not going to pay subscription. That's all there is to it, it's a free world, older version still works. _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Attila wrote:
fermy wrote: |
Well, I sure as hell am not going to pay subscription. That's all there is to it, it's a free world, older version still works. |
yes, my wife pretty good graphic designer and if I allow to her she still use photoshop 7 Now she use CS2 and perfectly happy with that. Perhaps time to look for a new software I use mainly Acdseepro , cheap and works well. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fermy wrote:
Yep, time to look for a new software. Lightroom is still available without the cloud, but I don't think this will last for long. So I started to look for alternatives and found this :
http://www.darktable.org/2013/02/importing-lightroom-development/
Looks promising, I'll try it tonight. _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nordentro
Joined: 24 Jun 2010 Posts: 4713 Location: Lillehammer, Norway
Expire: 2015-01-29
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nordentro wrote:
Well, I've used Adobe software for 10 years, and Photoshop hasn't really changed that much. It's very few of the new functions I really need or use in my work. Adobe Premiere has gotten better and more stable, same with Indesign ++. The big thing is if you use more than one application, the integration between them have gotten better and better
I don't like this subscription idea either _________________ Lars | Manuellfokus.no |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Orio wrote:
@Fermy: As long as you have a hardware copy of Lightroom to reinstall at will, you won't need this program - at least not at it's current stage of development.
Perhaps in 5 years from now.
But frankly I don't think Lightroom will be a problem. Differently from Photoshop, Adobe has to face real competition for Lightroom
(Capture One Pro, Aperture). This means they won't move it to cloud, at least not any time soon, because if they do, they would
suffer a bad loss of users.
Problem is Photoshop, because it's industry standard and no other image PP program comes close in terms of user base, industry standard,
third party support, knowledge base, educational support.
In other words, if you want to work in the field, you may or may not use Lightroom, but you have to use Photoshop. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
|
Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ManualFocus-G wrote:
I switched to Lightroom late last year, and to be honest have barely touched Photoshop since. Which is handy, as CS5 doesn't support my 6D I'm not into layers or HDR, so Lightroom is fine. But slow. _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
|
Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
fermy wrote:
Yeah, I also don't use photoshop that much. I like the idea of non-destructive edits, however with Adobe trying to push the subscription I do not like the possibility of being tied to lightroom catalogue. Also it's evident that compatibility is not Adobe's priority: LR 4 does not run on XP for example, one day their new version won't run on Windows 7, while old version won't support newer cameras and what am I supposed to do, buy new comp? And yeah LR is slow. So I am seriously considering alternatives, this Linux thing looks quite attractive and it's free. I'll give it a try, I have a dual boot anyway. _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
|
Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Orio wrote:
Compatibility will not be a problem if you keep a copy of your files saved as DNG (which you always should). _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RSalles
Joined: 12 Aug 2012 Posts: 1372 Location: Brazil - RS / South
|
Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
RSalles wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Compatibility will not be a problem if you keep a copy of your files saved as DNG (which you always should). |
Orio,
Could you elaborate a little bit more about this compatibility? Compatibility from what to what which is covered by DNG? I didn't understand this,
Thank you,
Renato |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Arkku
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Arkku wrote:
^ I guess he might have meant that DNG files can be opened even in software where the latest camera raw support is not available.
DNG is not the perfect solution for raw compatibility either; some non-Adobe software may not process DNG-converted raws as well as supported camera-specific raws (in many programs DNG may use generic conversion without camera profiles, etc). There is also poor support for DNGs with sensors having other construction than the usual GRGB Bayer pattern. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fermy
Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974
|
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
fermy wrote:
RSalles wrote: |
Orio,
Could you elaborate a little bit more about this compatibility? Compatibility from what to what which is covered by DNG? I didn't understand this,
Thank you,
Renato |
Neither do I. The issue is that if you try to exit Lightroom eco-system, you lose your edits. LR is non-destructive, so you don't lose originals. If you export everything to DNG, you do keep your final version, but you lose originals and intermediate adjustments. I guess Orio's idea is to keep originals and export final edits to DNG, which is still suboptimal since intermediate steps are lost, not to mention that you waste space to keep 2 DNGs instead of 1. _________________ Many lenses and some film bodies for sale here: http://forum.mflenses.com/canon-fd-minolta-md-c-mounts-m42-pentax-and-more-t50465.html
Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/96060788@N06/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Victor Nguyen
Joined: 02 Aug 2012 Posts: 241
|
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Victor Nguyen wrote:
I hate the new cloud system too. But would you subscribe if the system is much cheaper? like maybe $20/month. I just think $50 is just too much. _________________ Nikkor 24mm f2.8 ai, Rokinon/Samyang 35mm f 1.4, Nikkor 55 f2.8 micro ais, Rokinon/Samyang 85mm f 1.4, Pentacon 135 "bokeh monster" f 2.8, Contax Zeiss 180 f 2.8 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|