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White Lithium - All the Same?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: White Lithium - All the Same? Reply with quote
I only started to take apart lenses about 8 months ago. I've probably cleaned out about 6 or 7 but only lubricated the helicoids on 2. Going from the advice from this forum, I bought a white lithium grease from a local hardware store as a cheaper alternative to 'real' helicoid lubricant. I've found the focus to be very smooth but a bit stiff for my tastes. I had tried varying amounts, from sparse to way more than common sense would dictate, but nothing seems to change that fact.

Is all white lithium grease this viscosity? Are there particular brands that are lighter, or something that would indicate that on the packaging? I just hate spending that much time to get a lens that screws off the camera instead of focusing properly. I would greatly appreciate any advice. Many thanks in advance!

~Marc


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Part of the problem might be the lens design itself. I've re-lubed maybe a dozen lenses so far; some after careful relubing become butter-smooth (like my Super-Tak 35/3.5). Some, like my Flektogon 35/2.4 I got from Attila never like that.


Although if you have helicoids that are stiff enough that you might accidentally unscrew it from the mount, then that sounds like a more serious problem. Do you properly remove all residues of previous grease before you apply new lube?[/quote]


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I removed the old grease quite carefully. I used a simple lighter-fluid but it did the trick and the helicoids were pristine before reassembly.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I understand it WHITE lithium grease contains dispersed Teflon particles. I couldn't find any locally. My local cycle shop said that they didn't stock it because it tended to break down in wet conditions. They persuaded me to try an alternative (which was actually red in colour) lithium grease containing Teflon. I experienced the problem described - extremely smooth focusing but far too heavy.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A googling of "grease viscosity chart" brought up this http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=798
Read and digest Smile
Lens rebuilders have been down this road numerous times and I doubt if any are going to be free with their hard-won knowledge, so it's a matter of trial and error. You're in the good position of knowing what is too stiff, so start from there. I'd suggest that modification of your existing grease might be a starting point, perhaps by liquifying it slightly with a non-volatile, like engine oil. After all, the grease you've got is just an oil with padding.

Then, when you've got a mix that works, and is stable under all conditions, you can sell it in tiny packets for 100 dollars and call it "Molemans Miracle Lens Lube" Smile


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Then, when you've got a mix that works, and is stable under all conditions, you can sell it in tiny packets for 100 dollars and call it "Molemans Miracle Lens Lube"


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I actually had the opposite experience with some white lithium grease (I bought it in Halfords for those in UK). It was in aerosol spray form, with a tube to direct the grease, like WD40. It's very thin to start with, and when I first used it on a lens I was disappointed how little damping it achieved. But after a while the solvent "carrier" evaporates, leaving the white grease, which turned out to be perfect. I guess maybe a lot depends on the brand of lens. The lenses I've used it on were two Pentacons and a Tessar.


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wonder if I get the spray and let it separate out beforehand?


PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
I wonder if I get the spray and let it separate out beforehand?

That's exactly what I did Marc. This is the stuff I used:
http://www.3inone.com/products/white-lithium-grease/


PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I keep a can of this around my house. Once it's out in the air it becomes slick as snot!
Think I will be doing some lens lubricating myself......


PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fantastic. I think I have a fairly new can lying around somewhere. I believe it has Teflon in it. I'll clean up the lens I already did and see how it goes.
Many thanks for everyone's help!

~Marc


PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: White Lithium - All the Same? Reply with quote
Forget white lithium - concentrate on RED MERCURY! lol

I have started the new rumor that old Minolta Xxxx and Canon Axx series bodies are rich in the stuff - I have a lot of inventory to move! Smile Smile Smile

Doug

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7999168.stm

themoleman342 wrote:
I only started to take apart lenses about 8 months ago. I've probably cleaned out about 6 or 7 but only lubricated the helicoids on 2. Going from the advice from this forum, I bought a white lithium grease from a local hardware store as a cheaper alternative to 'real' helicoid lubricant. I've found the focus to be very smooth but a bit stiff for my tastes. I had tried varying amounts, from sparse to way more than common sense would dictate, but nothing seems to change that fact.

Is all white lithium grease this viscosity? Are there particular brands that are lighter, or something that would indicate that on the packaging? I just hate spending that much time to get a lens that screws off the camera instead of focusing properly. I would greatly appreciate any advice. Many thanks in advance!

~Marc


PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought Permatex Ultra Slick white lithium grease today for my hard focusing Pancolar 50/1.8 and now it is as smooth as Takumar. Very Happy



PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nice link, interesting read

Farside wrote:
A googling of "grease viscosity chart" brought up this http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=798
Read and digest Smile


PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got a can of disc brake lubricant. It is black and stays where it is put. I like the result. Also, if you happen to leave your camera locked in a closed car in the middle of Summer, the stuff won't run until the interior starts to burn.
Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I tried white lithium grease, and found it too light to my liking. Besides, it is a petroleum-based product, which means it can start evaporating under the sun.

Then I bought a tube of marine grade silicone grease (blue in color), and that one I like much better. It gives the resistance of old Soviet glass, which is smooth (can be focused with one finger) but stiffens when you try to focus fast. I find this feeling the best for precise focusing. It's called "Corrosion Block High Performane Multi Purpose Grease" (quite generic, eh?) manufactured by Lear Chemical Research Corp. It's supposed to survive extremely high temperatures without breaking down or evaporating.


PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just about any modern grease will be better than the whale oil (or bear fat Wink ) that some lenses are originally lubricated with.


Personally I used a tube of Mobil (ExxonMobil) Mobilgrease Special which is a multipurpose automotive lithium grease (has trace amounts of molybdenium in it). I find its viscosity is just right (NLGI 2). The price at a automotive shop can't be beaten, a 400g cartridge for a grease gun that would enable me to open a lens repair shop cost me 3€. I apply it with a tooth pick or small stick.

I looked into getting an aerosole administered grease (which will stay put when the carrier substance has evaporated) but find that I have more control when applying a conventional grease. Much cheaper too.


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
themoleman342 wrote:
Fantastic. I think I have a fairly new can lying around somewhere. I believe it has Teflon in it. I'll clean up the lens I already did and see how it goes.
Many thanks for everyone's help!

~Marc


Old thread, but did you try the lithium+teflon spray grease? Did you spray directly on helicoid or did you spray on some clean surface and then "transfer" it with q-tips to the helicoid?

I bought this but have no idea if it will be good. I've got some defect lenses I will practice lens repair on Smile


White lithium grease + PTFE

PTFE=Teflon?

I'm a little worried about applying it by spraying, maybe it will fly EVERYWHERE...but at least the layer will probably be thin and even?


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Farside wrote:
A googling of "grease viscosity chart" brought up this http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=798
Read and digest Smile
Lens rebuilders have been down this road numerous times and I doubt if any are going to be free with their hard-won knowledge, so it's a matter of trial and error. You're in the good position of knowing what is too stiff, so start from there. I'd suggest that modification of your existing grease might be a starting point, perhaps by liquifying it slightly with a non-volatile, like engine oil. After all, the grease you've got is just an oil with padding.

Then, when you've got a mix that works, and is stable under all conditions, you can sell it in tiny packets for 100 dollars and call it "Molemans Miracle Lens Lube" Smile


It's worth repeating this - " After all, the grease you've got is just an oil with padding." The grease I use is the general purpose grease any mechanic will use on things like wheel bearings, the temp' range is more than enough for any lens. If the helicoid has a tight tolerance and it feels tight then I use very light oil ( the sort of stuff for lubricating sewing machines ) in a surgical syringe and apply a tiny drop to the grease which thins it. Using solvents doesn't work to thin grease as the solvent evaporates and the grease returns to its original viscosity.

I have used the light oil and applied a tiny drop to the original grease on a very tight lens and freed it perfectly. That way meant I didn't have to separate the helicoid, I just removed the rear mount so I could see the helicoid - extended it - and applied a few tiny drops of oil to it. Then I worked the focus for a minute or two and it was light and smooth, which it still is 3 years later.
Like many people I had tried lighter fuel and found it worked - for a brief moment until it evaporates, a solvent will dissolve the grease long enough to allow the grease to move or be moved, which is why we can wash the old grease out with lighter fuel, but it won't permanently reduce the viscocity


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Member perkabrod prompted me to reply to this thread.

I actually followed the advise of Peter on the first page. I found Dupont-brand spray can of "Teflon White Lithium Grease." It probably is very similar to the CRC product. Teflon, to my understanding, is just the a name-brand PTFE.

I spray the stuff into a glass container (not sure if some plastics could degrade/out-gas and affect the grease) and let it sit with the top open, in a dust free environment, for 3-4 days before using it. Stirring a few times each day. Makes sure the carrier had really evaporated out.

I get the helicoids sparkling clean with a special detergent/mild abrasive mixture I made up. Of course for that, the threads have to be completely disassembled from the optical block and all other parts.

I use a small paint brush and evenly spread it on the helicoids on all surfaces then recombine at the marked separation point.

Since the original post, I've done probably a hundred lenses. The dupont grease has proved to be a perfect viscosity for me.


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LLoydy: Wow! Fantastic advice!
So even Teflon White Lithium is based on oil and could be thinned with a sewing machine oil drop?

I don't know much about greases yet but I will have to learn. I'm guessing synthetic is, well synthetic oil? Would that mix well with sewing machine oil or is synthetic to avoid mixing with oil?


themoleman342:
Thanks!
Do you still do that "spray the stuff into a glass container" and leave for 3-4 days, then apply with paintbrush or have you bought the non-aerosol version of the Dupont Teflon White Lithium Grease? Or perhaps spray directly on the helical?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm on a little tight budget, unemployed after 6 years full time work... so I thought that NOW is the time to learn repairing lenses. So for my budget around $100 I figured I'd do lots of research first, then buy the tools and start Smile


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The last one I bought is molybdenum disulfide, colored black, I used it for only lens so far, but it looks promising.


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I still use the aerosol spray. Don't spray it directly on. It will drip, get really messy, get everywhere, and still not be that evenly distributed. Ok for heavy machinery, not for lenses.

The can says that it thickens to a NLGI #2 grease. The original post was about a white lithium grease found in a tube. That was rated as a NLGI #2 also but it is MUCH thicker. I'm not sure which rating is correct.

The can cost $6 and does about 30 lenses. I've never had any separation issues even in some intense Florida heat.

Spend the rest of the budget on a decent spanner and screw drivers.


PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
Farside wrote:
A googling of "grease viscosity chart" brought up this http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=798
Read and digest Smile
Lens rebuilders have been down this road numerous times and I doubt if any are going to be free with their hard-won knowledge, so it's a matter of trial and error. You're in the good position of knowing what is too stiff, so start from there. I'd suggest that modification of your existing grease might be a starting point, perhaps by liquifying it slightly with a non-volatile, like engine oil. After all, the grease you've got is just an oil with padding.

Then, when you've got a mix that works, and is stable under all conditions, you can sell it in tiny packets for 100 dollars and call it "Molemans Miracle Lens Lube" Smile


It's worth repeating this - " After all, the grease you've got is just an oil with padding." The grease I use is the general purpose grease any mechanic will use on things like wheel bearings, the temp' range is more than enough for any lens. If the helicoid has a tight tolerance and it feels tight then I use very light oil ( the sort of stuff for lubricating sewing machines ) in a surgical syringe and apply a tiny drop to the grease which thins it. Using solvents doesn't work to thin grease as the solvent evaporates and the grease returns to its original viscosity.

I have used the light oil and applied a tiny drop to the original grease on a very tight lens and freed it perfectly. That way meant I didn't have to separate the helicoid, I just removed the rear mount so I could see the helicoid - extended it - and applied a few tiny drops of oil to it. Then I worked the focus for a minute or two and it was light and smooth, which it still is 3 years later.
Like many people I had tried lighter fuel and found it worked - for a brief moment until it evaporates, a solvent will dissolve the grease long enough to allow the grease to move or be moved, which is why we can wash the old grease out with lighter fuel, but it won't permanently reduce the viscocity


I totally agree with everything here and have tried most of it myself. Normal automotive grease does the trick. This is what I use, a generic brand bought originally for greasing the bearings on my bike (and still going strong after 10 years). Nothing fancy. It stays where it's put and doesn't go soft in the heat.



PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:
The last one I bought is molybdenum disulfide, colored black, I used it for only lens so far, but it looks promising.


I find that molybdenum disulfide grease separates if it is not in regular use, getting moved frequently. I've spent my working life as a maintenance engineer; on heavy equipment but lube is lube.. We used molybdenum disulfide grease a lot and had it in huge drums in the workshop, and when you removed the lid there was usually a pool of oil on the top that we had to mix back in before we used the grease. But in the right application it wouldn't separate. If we went to a machine that was lube'd with molybdenum disulfide and the machine had stood for a long period out of use there would be oil on the surface of any exposed grease.
Personally, I wouldn't use it on a slow moving, low pressure, low usage application. One of the most common uses for molybdenum disulfide is lubricating the constant velocity ( CV ) joints on car drive shafts, where it is sealed inside the rubber boots. CV joints are obviously a very mechanically stressful application, lens helicoids are entirely different.

If you used the molybdenum disulfide very sparingly then I would leave it and not worry about it, but I would recommend a general purpose grease, or a hi-tech lube such as Moleman suggests. It obviously works as he's had great success with many lenses.
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