Which 120 film for old cameras

Minolfan · Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3439 Location: Netherlands

I like to use old cameras for 120 film from time to time. Most of them have a red window for filmcounter.
My problem with several fims is, that the numbers are hardly visible through the red window. Because my eyes are not anymore what they used to be, but more than that, that the numbers are not printed clear, sharp and black. What film is still OK in this regard?
Or do you count the turnings you need to get next frame? May be I have to find out how much that is.

Farside · Expire: 2013-12-27

Because they're printed black on white I find Fuji and Foma to be ok through most red windows, but some of the reds are too dark and it's easy to miss the small numbers on the Fuji. Just a question of taking it slowly. The black on yellow of Kodak was easier to see, no doubt about it.

PaulC · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318

The number of turns will change slightly as the take-up spool gets thicker with the film wound on it. I have to carry my glasses with me to see the numbers and even them I sometimes overshoot. Some cameras are easier to use than others in this regard.

Sorry, I can't remember which films have the clearest numbering.

Sevo · Expire: 2012-12-03

The films I recently used from Ilford, Rollei and Efke all had light on dark print which is very hard to see. Ilford is not quite as bad as it used to be, though - some years ago they went through a period where their numbering was effectively invisible through a red window.

Minolfan · Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3439 Location: Netherlands

Thanks,
I remembered me Ilford as NO GO.
Lucky is hardly visible too, even when woking slowly.
Yes I realized that for counting turns I have to know how much shot by shot, because of the thickening roll on the take up spool.

I will try Fuji and search for Foma.

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

Some years ago Ilford announced that they're to use light grey ink for printing backing paper numbers, since most users nowdays use cameras with mechanical systems for measuring the amount of film advanced. Certainly you can still use the red window but it's more difficult to see clearly.

It's a measure against the possibility of off-setting: when rolled up, the printing is pressed against the emulsion and the ink can get transferred to it. A fair few years ago I bought a batch of EFKE film and used it sparingly, and later on they all got ruined by off-setting Crying or Very sad

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

I had no trouble with any Fuji, Kodak products what I did try mostly slides and color films. I have no experience with B&W films.

Katastrofo · Expire: 2013-11-19

Minolfan, the best thing is not to get old, then it won't matter as much... Laughing

I say this as I'm rounding the corner to 61. Wink

Minolfan · Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3439 Location: Netherlands

Last month I passed 64, so I might know still better. The trouble isn't anymore not to get old, when you are in fact Confused

. And still want to play with old gear.
Perhaps I should restrict that playing to old 35mm SLRs like my minolta XE-1 and XD7(XD11) with great viewfinders and picture counters Smile

!

Kram · Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1344 Location: Portland, OR

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Banjo · Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 75 Location: Oz (Near Adelaide)

Let me get this.

The 120 roll films have frame numbers you can read through the red window on the (vintage) camera backs (say, such as the Zeiss Nettars).

OK, do these numbers apply to 6x6 format? If so, what happens if the camera is made for 6x7, 6x8, 6x9 format?

How does it work? Question

I have won a bid on a Nettar 6x6 (picking it up tomorrow).

What can I expect regarding the operation of the film advance?

Can I just put in a roll of 120, say, Kodak 160vc Portra and expect to see the appropriate numbers appear in the window, as I advance the film through the camera?

What should I be aware of, if anything? Question

Minolfan · Joined: 30 Dec 2008 Posts: 3439 Location: Netherlands

The numbers are in some strips. The red window for 6x6 has a position, different from that for 6x9. That is why old Bessas 6x9 with a frame for a second format 6x6 have two red windows.

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

Here's a scan (not mine) of a 120 film backing paper - this guy has a bunch of these - where you can see the different numbers in rows

120 Film Backing Paper - Ilford Selochrome Panchromatic by heritagefutures, on Flickr

The frame size determines where the manufacturer puts the ruby window... With your 6x6 there's only one window. 6x4.5's have two, because you operate them by first rolling a '1' into the first window, then rolling that same '1' into the second window... and then '2' into the first and so on - you only see 8 numbers but each one twice.

6x6 you get 12 numbers, each once. Different films have different sorts of warning dots - some get larger etc - before the number comes up. But a part of the fun is to watch for the number and every now and then wind past it...

I've had trouble with Kodak, until I got used to it.

Seele · Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia

120 rollfilm was originally designed for 6X9 format and carried just one row of frame numbers on the backing paper. With the addition of further numbers fairly early on the position was revised, causing some incompatibilities. When Rollei introduced the Old Standard - the first Rolleiflex camera using 120 film - 6X6 markings was still not universal, so it adopted a mechanical advance system, and it just stayed on from then.

For the other formats like 6X7, 6X8 etc, mechanical advance system without the need for red window for every frame is obviously obligatory.

Banjo · Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 75 Location: Oz (Near Adelaide)

Thanks everyone for the helpful information Smile

Nesster (BTW, I admire the shots you have posted here from time to time Smile

), what was it about "Kodak" you needed to get used to (I have Kodak 120 film)?

(My Nettar II appears to have some -remediable- focusing issues -the lens doesn't turn along with the focusing ring as it apparently should- so it is undergoing a CLA right now, before I put film in it. it will also have a lens clean, shutter lube and viewfinder clean, while we are at it. Smile

)

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

As far as my meager memory serves, I remember starting with Fuji color films and they had clear numbering... when I tried Kodak the numbers were more faint. These were color films though... and I haven't shot Kodak in a camera that requires peering in the ruby window recently, so for all I know I'm totally wrong about that. But I think at first I was missing where to stop for a frame.

I know: Very Happy

I'll try a roll of Kodak and report back!

Or you will...

thanks re. the shots - I'm more a vintage user, I think there are some much better photographers around here Wink

(I'm happy right now: I just bought a Minolta SRT201 and a No.2 Kodak Folding Hawkeye Special with its instruction book for $35 delivered. The camera is from 1929-33 and I can't wait to use it. I'll sell the Minolta)

Banjo · Joined: 25 Jun 2009 Posts: 75 Location: Oz (Near Adelaide)

Nesster · Expire: 2014-02-20

There ya go, that's what I was fumbling towards Laughing

Foma by the way has excellent backing paper: white on black and heavy numbers... for when our eyesight really starts to go Very Happy

PaulC · Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 2318

For the record, only the older 6x4.5 models had two windows. They read the backing numbers for 6x9 (the most widely spaced numbers). Later the position of the 6x4.5 window changed to read the closest spaced numbers (which must have been missing from pre-war films) so there was then only one window needed.

The 6x7 format isn't covered because it didn't come out until long after they stopped putting windows in the back of cameras.