West German Voigtlander Color-Ultron 1.4/55mm Rollei QBM

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

I bought Voigtlander Color-Ultron 1.4/55mm Rollei QBM, as I read it was produced my Mamiya http://forum.mflenses.com/voigtlaender-1-4-55mm-color-ultron-mamiya-thus-tomioka-t41302,start,15.html , and usually it written MADE INA JAPAN but I got one MADE IN WEST GERMANY. It is interesting also if it look at serial number this is later versions of lens - I found versions with serial number with 7 digits that starts with 6xxxxxx and they are from Japan but version I have is 7xxxxxx and seams it is later version.
I compered this lens to Planar Y/C 50 1.4. Sharpness at 1.4 is similar, even on the border Voigtlander is slightly sharper, but Zeiss have slightly more contrast - more like like clarity effect in PS. Is it possible that this lens is made in Germany? Anyone have any informations?

sonyrokkor · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:47 am Post subject:

The rollei/voigtlander lenses in QBM, with "AR" letters in the ring, are german (zeiss) brothers.

Very good luck with your Planra 1,4/55 (contarex schame?). I think so.

Better aperture is 5,6 (at least with mine).

Bille · Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 381

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

Interesting, so this isn't the same as the Mamiya made 1.4/55?

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Looks same , my guess assembled in Germany, perhaps glass made also in Germany , other parts were imported from Japan.

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Some FAQ about Rollei lenses:

- if it says "made in West Germany" then it means it was made in West Germany (obviously) Rolling Eyes

therefore not by Mamiya;
- whenever it does not say explicitely "Carl Zeiss" then it means it was not built by Carl Zeiss;
- if it says "Rollei" and "made in West Germany" and it was built before or on year 1972, then it was built in Rollei's facility at Braunschweig;
- if it says "Rollei" and "made in West Germany" and it was built on or after 1973, then it was either built in Rollei's facility at Braunschweig, or in Voigtl�nder's facility, also in Braunschweig.

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

I m not sure, it looks like Mamiya and Rolleinar 55 1.4 but it is just written that is not from Japan interesting. I fond this about QBM lenses http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rolleiflex_SL35_lenses . But still there is not information about my lens.
Thank you Orio, I m not expert about this field, I know Rollei have some problems so move proaction to Singapore. And I knew Rollei and some Voitlender lenses was maid in Mamaya factories. I guess that other Voigtlander lenses that was Carl Zeiss ones, was also made in Singapore. So i didn't know, Rollei start again production of lenses in Germany for QBM. I m happy that I have this lens, I suppose it is rare more than Japaneses 55 1.4.

sonyrokkor · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:22 pm Post subject:

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

Thank you for all answers but I don't understated you sonyrokkor. As I understand all of Voitlander lenses use Zeiss scheme but
as I read here the one made by Zeiss for Voitlander are

List of the Zeiss lenses, and Voigtl�nder equivalents:

25/2.8 Distagon = Color-Skoparex
35/2.8 Distagon = Color-Skoparex
50/1.8 Planar = Color-Ultron
85/2.8 Sonnar = Color-Dynarex
135/2.8 Sonnar (with built-in lens hood)=Color-Dynarex
135/4 Tele-Tessar = Color-Dynarex
200/4 Tele-Tessar = Color-Dynarex (with built-in lens hood)

and the one with AR are made by Mamiya and written made by Japan, also Zeiss sheme:

14/3.5 (fisheye) F-Rolleinar = Color-F-Skoparex AR
21/4 Rolleinar = Color-Skopaerex AR
28/2.8 Rolleinar = Color-Skoparex AR
35/2.8 Rolleinar = Color-Skoparex AR
55/1.4 Rolleinar = Color-Ultron AR
85/2.8 Rolleinar = Color-Dynarex AR
105/2.8 Rolleinar = Color-Dynarex AR
135/2.8 Rolleinar = Color-Dynarex AR
200/3.5 Rolleinar = Color-Dynarex AR
400/5.6 Rolleinar = Color-Dynarex AR
500/8 (mirror lens) Reflex-Rolleinar = Reflex-Dynar AR
35-105/3.5 Zoom-Rolleinar = Vario-Dynar AR
80-200/4 Zoom-Rolleinar = Vario-Dynar AR

And if there are made by West German with AR then they are made in Braunschweig

am I wright?

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

My Rollei Planar 50 1.8 is marked as "Made by Rollei" and also marked "Made in East Germany" - I think the Voightlander factory was also in Braunschweig and was taken over by Zeiss, and that's where the non Zeiss German lenses were made ?
The lens was on a Singapore made Rolleiflex SL35, so I'm guessing they brought some of the cameras to Germany and fitted the lenses for the European market?

sonyrokkor · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject:

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Srdjan, since you have the lens, why not analyzing the reflections, counting them, aperture closed, turning lens both sides. Let us clarify the subject, enough of mumbo jumbo talk. Though keeping mystery is also understandable Wink

.

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

Ok I will try to test is as much as possible, maybe also to compare to Planar 50 1.4

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Please shoot reflections from top and from rear, aperture closed. Single light source.

sonyrokkor · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:29 pm Post subject:

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

I dom't have Mamiya lens but I have contax Planar 50 1.4. First pictures of coating. Front side is like violet, and beck one interesting green.

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

Admittedly job is quite tough. It's already hard to distinguish reflection properly, but to take photo of them is really a challenge. I figure it will be better to draw them.
Seems to me the same optical design with all made in Japan. A copy of Mamiya SX but multicoated. You might try to compare yours with those bellow.

Ultron AR is Voigtl�nder Color-Ultron. Two Rolleinars presented with different starting serial numbers.

Red reflection on front side turns bluish if looked under different angle.
Those small rainbows could be assumed partial reflection (glued surfaces)?

Please ask if you find anything strange or wrong.

TAo2 · Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Posts: 319 Location: Scotland

Ah read a while ago (Captain Jack's site - lost the link)

iirc color ultrons were made in Germany but also assembled by Rollei in Singapore. The glass was "made in Gemany" , the lenses assembled/built, overseas. This is also true for some ZEISS lenses (under licence).

It's quite easy tae get lens coating reflections, though the coatings are not, by any means, definitive; lens coatings changed all the time.

Use a macro or macro mode, persevere with moving the taking lens back+forward and angled 'til the layers appear. Put the lens on a windowsill, dullish light, angled . Ah use body caps or adaptors as supports. Examples below...

#1

#2

#3

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

When I look at the rear of lens is it for sure that colors of rear glasses is as you present green-blue combination (last one i your drawings - Ultron AR). Obviously front coating is violet. So as I understand it is matches description of your Ultron AR. But still there is no any suggestion about is it real made in Germany. Does anyone have any data about serial numbers, is it posible that I can found there answer?

praktiman · Joined: 15 May 2013 Posts: 22 Location: United States

This is an interesting subject. There is a huge amount of speculation about it. Often well-reasoned, but often based on the speculations of others, hence, still speculation. What is needed is more data.

My own observations on this are that the construction of most of the Rolleinar MC and at least some of the Voigtlander lenses, is outwardly identical to the Mamiya SX-series lenses. It seems, therefore, extremely improbable that the internal construction (and, therefore, the optical schema) would be different. So, either the Mamiya 1.4/55 was identical to the Zeiss design--not merely in optical formula, but also in terms of how the glass was fitted into the mount, such that lens barrels could be sent to Germany for Zeiss 1959-style glass to be fitted. . .OR, Mamiya sent some lenses to Germany, barrels unassembled and glass uncoated, for Rollei to multi-coat and assemble as a trial series.

Anyway, there are more possibilities than this, but to my mind, much less likely ones.

There are collectors' groups dedicated to reconstructing these histories, most notably (or at least to me) the Zeiss and Voigtlander groups. They use not only documents from recognized authorities, but also compile serial number databases, and other data collecting, in order to arrive at the most authoritative and plausible conclusions possible.

Any interest in such an undertaking?

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

Yes praktiman this is very interesting topic, and you have good point of view. I will give you one parallel for example. Today brands like Yves Saint Laurent and Gucci produce some of their product in my country, more precisely they produce all of the parts in my country and just piece together it in France or Italy. And in the end it is Made in Italy or France. But same fabric produce parts for others famous bands .... so same hand or machine produce it, maybe different materials = different brands Smile

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Welcome Praktiman! Your sound is logical, I believe it too, they made in same factory , but opposite is also possible easily. Glass and other parts made at different factories.

Pancolart · Expire: 2013-11-18

The family photo:

And samples:

Bokeh:

Srdjan · Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 316 Location: Nis

Nice family of lenses Pancolart and nice pictures. On this pictures looks that Voitlander have diferent couting then Rolleinaar and Mamiya. I have another question are voitlander skopars are the same as Zeiss. What are differences except body, glass, coutings, optical sheme are the same?