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cgustav
Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:18 am Post subject: Help me choose between these cheap lenses |
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cgustav wrote:
Hi there,
I want to buy a 28mm or 35mm, I have spotted some copies which appear to be in good condition.
I love both angles of view, so either the 28 or the 35 will work for me. If you know of anything in between, please, share your knowledge as I'm pretty lost besides the most common lenses.
For instance, I've just seen a Pentacon 29mm 2.8, didn't know it existed.
So, here are the choices:
Vivitar 28mm f/2
Vivitar 35mm 2.8
Minolta MD 28mm 2.8
Minolta MC Rokkor-HG 35mm 2.8
Pentacon 29mm 2.8
Tokina (EL or RMC) 28mm 2.8
_________________ Fuji X-T10 |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1128
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:16 am Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
First of all, the question is what would you use this lens for (landscape,portraits etc)? The 28 and 35 mm don't offer same view in FF, in crop sensor things change more. I've got the pentacon 29mm brand new, haven't really use it, because in FF i like more 25 and 35mm.. Now, if you want it for portraits, i recommend you a f2 lens for a crop sensor , for landscape doesnt really matter that much,as you need to close down up to 5,6 or 8 most of the times. Later on i'll shoot some images with the Pentacon to checkout if is any worth it. |
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Alun Thomas
Joined: 20 Aug 2018 Posts: 632 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Alun Thomas wrote:
The vivitar 28 F2 came in two versions, Komine (serial starting with 28 ), or Kiron (serial starting with 22). I have a Kiron model, and it gives decent results, perhaps not as good as a top level camera manufacturers lens. (Kiron lenses do have a bit of a reputation for having a sticky aperture. Mine did, I had to clean it)
The 35 3.8 came in multiple versions, including several from Tokina (serial starting with 37). I have an early 70s Tokina type 35 2.8, as before, it gives decent results without being a world beater.
The Minolta MD 28 2.8 came in two main versions (7 lenses 7 elements, or 5 lenses 5 elements). I have a 7/7 and am very happy with the results. The 5/5 lense was released later, and is probably also very good.
The Minolta MC HG 35 2.7 I don't have experience of, but it does have a reputation for having a sticky aperture, so be careful. |
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cgustav
Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:08 am Post subject: |
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cgustav wrote:
@kiddo
You're right, I forgot to mention the use. It's for street photography on a Fuji X-Pro2. I'd like to hear your conclusions about the Pentacon.
@Alun Thomas
Thanks for the information. Apparently, then, I shouldn't go wrong with either any of the lenses. I currently have Vivitars and I must say I'm rather pleased with these lenses: results are good, but I also the handling and operability. The ring is smooth with a good grip, and the distance scale is clear. _________________ Fuji X-T10 |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:40 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
The later 5/5 version of the Minolta 35/2.8 is most probably one of the best 35mm lenses even for todays standards. Highly recommended.
The Minolta 28mm/F2.8 in it's 7/7 version isn't bad as well.
I've compared it here with some other 28mm lenses: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Rosedalelad
Joined: 18 Oct 2018 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Rosedalelad wrote:
I have Komine manufactured Vivitar 28mm f2.8 close focus (pictured) and 35mm f2.8 and both are very good. I mainly shoot landscape though.
X-Pro1 and Komine Vivitar 28mm f2.8 (Close Focus) lens by Andrew R, on Flickr |
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cgustav
Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:01 am Post subject: |
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cgustav wrote:
That's very interesting, tb_a
Thanks for sharing this.
I guess my question would be, how can I tell if it's 5/5 or 7/7? Serial Number? _________________ Fuji X-T10 |
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cgustav
Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 am Post subject: |
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cgustav wrote:
@Rosedalelad
Thanks, I'm glad to hear there's another happy Vivitar user.
I've heard a few times some discussions about the different versions, Komine vs Kiron, Tokina and so on and I forgot which one is supposed to be better, though I guess overall they are pretty good.
Nice leather case by the way! _________________ Fuji X-T10 |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:26 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
cgustav wrote: |
I guess my question would be, how can I tell if it's 5/5 or 7/7? Serial Number? |
The easiest and best way to identify the different Minolta versions can be found here: http://minolta.eazypix.de/lenses/ _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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Rosedalelad
Joined: 18 Oct 2018 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Rosedalelad wrote:
cgustav wrote: |
@Rosedalelad
Thanks, I'm glad to hear there's another happy Vivitar user.
I've heard a few times some discussions about the different versions, Komine vs Kiron, Tokina and so on and I forgot which one is supposed to be better, though I guess overall they are pretty good.
Nice leather case by the way! |
Well, it's my opinion that the Komine manufactured Vivitars are better made and better performing. I have a Komine 55mm macro 1:1 and it's just superb. |
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cgustav
Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:59 am Post subject: |
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cgustav wrote:
Rosedalelad wrote: |
Well, it's my opinion that the Komine manufactured Vivitars are better made and better performing. I have a Komine 55mm macro 1:1 and it's just superb. |
That's good to know. I think I had found a page with the information on how to determine if it's Komine or another manufacturer. I'll check it, it may come handy.
Edit: this https://www.cameraquest.com/VivLensManuf.htm _________________ Fuji X-T10 |
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Rosedalelad
Joined: 18 Oct 2018 Posts: 15
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Rosedalelad wrote:
cgustav wrote: |
Rosedalelad wrote: |
Well, it's my opinion that the Komine manufactured Vivitars are better made and better performing. I have a Komine 55mm macro 1:1 and it's just superb. |
That's good to know. I think I had found a page with the information on how to determine if it's Komine or another manufacturer. I'll check it, it may come handy.
Edit: this https://www.cameraquest.com/VivLensManuf.htm |
If the serial number starts with a 28 then it's Komine. |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
The Minolta MC Rokkor-HG 35mm 2.8 is surprisingly good, I was expecting a budget level IQ, I couldn't find anything to complain about. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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Sjak
Joined: 29 Sep 2017 Posts: 696
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Sjak wrote:
The Pentacon 29mm is a sweet lens ,with pretty high contrast and saturation.
The Meyer Optik Görlitz 29mm has the same optical formula, but before the big eat-german merger into Pentacon. The Meyer is probably a bit better built.
*EDIT* here's a recent thread about it: http://forum.mflenses.com/pentacon-meyer-goerlitz-29mm-f-2-8-london-south-bank-t80227.html |
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D1N0
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 2498
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:03 am Post subject: |
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D1N0 wrote:
You might also look at Pentax. The super-takumar 35mm F3.5 is very compact and sharp and contrasty. SMC Pentax-m 28mm F3.5 is a very sharp and contrasty lens. _________________ pentaxian |
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noddywithoutbigears
Joined: 13 Jan 2010 Posts: 215 Location: Leek, Staffordshire
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: |
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noddywithoutbigears wrote:
I second the Meyer Optik version, delightful lens for little outlay, use a hood for best results, also I have the Auto Takumar 35mm F3.5 and again a delightful lens and very small, ideal for the Fuji. _________________ Sony A7
Super Takumar 55mm F18, Helios 44-2 58mm f2, Super Takumar 85mm f1.9, Pentacon 50mm f1.8, Zenitar 16mm f2.8 Fisheye, Carl Zeiss Vario Prakticar 35-70mm f2.7-3.5. Carl Zeiss Prakticar 35mm f2.4 |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10550 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
kiddo wrote: |
he 28 and 35 mm don't offer same view in FF, in crop sensor things change more. . |
Please explain. The angles of view change by crop factor sure but the difference is the same. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1305 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
The wide range of choice at 28mm has been touched on. This thread on pentax forums covers the same terrain:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/382516-kiron-28mm-f2-mc-smc-k-pentax-28mm-f3-5-a.html
Because you are using mirrorless, your options include lenses like minoltas, canon FD's, because there are simple adapters for them due to the short registration distance. As a loose rule of thumb, the oem lenses do tend to be better. My experience is that 28mm is a reliable focal length, you'll rarely go wrong, but equally you have to hunt around and be quite discriminating to find one that really does better than a good "kit" lens.
At 35mm I would say lenses like the vivitars are not so meritworthy. I like my komine made vivitar 35mm f2.8 though mainly for landscape. The Carl Zeiss Jena flektogon 35mm f2.4 has to be mentioned, but is IMO overpriced. The vivitar 35mm f1.9 (komine) would be good but can you find one?
For street pics how about the tamron adaptall SP 01A 35-80mm f2.8-3.8? One of the best vintage MF zooms with prime like sharpness, warm rendering, and the zoom range takes you right through portrait focal lengths. Worth paying a bit extra for a good one with good mechanics (worn/loose mechanics a bugbear with these). Alt: the easily available and dirt cheap 35-70mm 17A adaptall has actually iq close to that of the 01A 35-80mm and is overall a very similar 2 ring lens, so if you acquired that it would give you a look to see if you like it/would work for you. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1128
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
kiddo wrote: |
he 28 and 35 mm don't offer same view in FF, in crop sensor things change more. . |
Please explain. The angles of view change by crop factor sure but the difference is the same. |
I meant, the difference between the 28 and 35 mm is only 7mm ,but in a crop m4/3 there are 14mm difference in focal length. Depending what he's going to use the lens for, might suit him better the 28 or the 35 (close shots portraits the 28 would do better in m4/3 ,but in fuji the 35 would be the right choice). |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1305 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
kiddo wrote: |
I meant, the difference between the 28 and 35 mm is only 7mm ,but in a crop m4/3 there are 14mm difference in focal length. Depending what he's going to use the lens for, might suit him better the 28 or the 35 (close shots portraits the 28 would do better in m4/3 ,but in fuji the 35 would be the right choice). |
What you need to understand kiddo is that the "equivalence" focal lengths are misleading (in fact focal length is a fixed physical property of the lens), what the point is here is the field of view. In effect different sized sensors will capture different sized crops of the image circle projected by the lens.
On a full frame camera, 3:2 format, a 28mm lens has a horizontal FoV of 65.5°, a 35mm lens has a FoV of 54.4° (difference in degrees ~11)
On an apsc sensor camera, a 28mm lens has a FoV of ~46°, a 35mm lens has a FoV of ~38° (difference in degrees ~8 ).
On a M43 sensor camera it's 35.6° and ~29° (difference in degrees ~6.5 )
In general as the sensor gets smaller, the difference in field of view between two particular focal lengths gets less, because it's (effectively) ever increasingly telephoto. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock...
Last edited by marcusBMG on Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10550 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
marcusBMG wrote: |
In general as the sensor gets smaller, the difference in field of view between two particular focal lengths gets less, because it's (effectively) ever increasingly telephoto. |
Dfference in angle of view remains exactly the same. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
kiddo wrote: |
I meant, the difference between the 28 and 35 mm is only 7mm ,but in a crop m4/3 there are 14mm difference in focal length. Depending what he's going to use the lens for, might suit him better the 28 or the 35 (close shots portraits the 28 would do better in m4/3 ,but in fuji the 35 would be the right choice). |
I see exactly what you are getting at kiddo, but perhaps the terminology used isn't quite right. The focal length of the 28 or 35mm lenses does not change because you use a crop sensor. Crop sensors only give the appearance that the focal length has changed due to the field of view changing (you are looking though a smaller portion of the 28 or 35 lens). The only thing that can change the properties of a lens is more glass, for example a focal reducer or a multiplier.
I hope that makes sense. For example, if you put a 28mm lens on an MFT camera, you don't get a 56mm lens. You get all the properties of a 28mm lens, including its focal length, but with a narrower view through it that makes it look like a 56. It isn't a 56. It's still a 28, with all the properties that entails.
I can see why this gets confusing as I don't think I've explained it very well myself. |
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SkedAddled
Joined: 19 Oct 2008 Posts: 1428 Location: Michigan, USA
Expire: 2021-08-12
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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SkedAddled wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
Dfference in angle of view remains exactly the same. |
Across each lens, this is true.
You may have misses Marcus' bit of explanation:
marcusBMG wrote: |
In effect different sized sensors will capture different sized crops of the image circle projected by the lens. |
So, the angle of view does not change across any given lens's focal length,
while the ability of a given sensor size to capture it is a variable.
As the sensor becomes smaller, it is able to capture a smaller portion of the
total available image as projected by the lens. _________________ Craig
Of course I'm all right! Why? What have you heard!?
Canon Digital EOS 5D Mk IV, EOS 50D, Powershot S3 iS
Vivitar 28 f/2.8 OM - Zuiko 50 f/1.8 OM - Tamron SP 28-80 f/3.5 AD2[Favorite!] - Hanimar 135 f/3.5 M42 - Soligor 135 f/2.8 T4 - Tamron SP 60-300 f/3.8 AD2 - Soligor 75-260 f/4.5 M42 - Soligor 400 f/6.3 T4 - Soligor 500 f/8 T2 Cat + Matched 2X TC - Addiction Growing!
This is us -- We drive these -- We're named these |
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marcusBMG
Joined: 07 Dec 2012 Posts: 1305 Location: Conwy N Wales
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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marcusBMG wrote:
visualopsins wrote: |
marcusBMG wrote: |
In general as the sensor gets smaller, the difference in field of view between two particular focal lengths gets less, because it's (effectively) ever increasingly telephoto. |
Dfference in angle of view remains exactly the same. |
see my amended post with difference in degrees added.
Just put a zoom lens on your camera and see the change in field of view for yourself over eg 10mm focal length of zoom at the wide angle end and then the telephoto end. _________________ pentax ME super (retired)
Pentax K3-ii; pentax K-S2; Samsung NX 20; Lumix G1 + adapters;
Adaptall collection (proliferating!) inc 200-500mm 31A, 300mm f2.8, 400mm f4.
Primes: takumar 55mm; smc 28mm, 50mm; kino/komine 28mm f2's, helios 58mm, Tamron Nestar 400mm, novoflex 400mm, Vivitar 135mm close focus, 105mm macro; Jupiter 11A; CZJ 135mm.
A classic zoom or two: VS1 (komine), Kiron Zoomlock... |
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Artboy
Joined: 04 Dec 2018 Posts: 20
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Artboy wrote:
if you want to buy the Vivitar 28mm lens, please remember to check the aperture of the lens.
As I knew lots of this lens especially Kiron version got oil inside and the aperture stay wide open. |
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