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Help me choose between these cheap lenses
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:18 am    Post subject: Help me choose between these cheap lenses Reply with quote
Hi there,

I want to buy a 28mm or 35mm, I have spotted some copies which appear to be in good condition.
I love both angles of view, so either the 28 or the 35 will work for me. If you know of anything in between, please, share your knowledge as I'm pretty lost besides the most common lenses.
For instance, I've just seen a Pentacon 29mm 2.8, didn't know it existed.
So, here are the choices:

    Vivitar 28mm f/2
    Vivitar 35mm 2.8

    Minolta MD 28mm 2.8
    Minolta MC Rokkor-HG 35mm 2.8

    Pentacon 29mm 2.8
    Tokina (EL or RMC) 28mm 2.8


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
First of all, the question is what would you use this lens for (landscape,portraits etc)? The 28 and 35 mm don't offer same view in FF, in crop sensor things change more. I've got the pentacon 29mm brand new, haven't really use it, because in FF i like more 25 and 35mm.. Now, if you want it for portraits, i recommend you a f2 lens for a crop sensor , for landscape doesnt really matter that much,as you need to close down up to 5,6 or 8 most of the times. Later on i'll shoot some images with the Pentacon to checkout if is any worth it.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The vivitar 28 F2 came in two versions, Komine (serial starting with 28 ), or Kiron (serial starting with 22). I have a Kiron model, and it gives decent results, perhaps not as good as a top level camera manufacturers lens. (Kiron lenses do have a bit of a reputation for having a sticky aperture. Mine did, I had to clean it)

The 35 3.8 came in multiple versions, including several from Tokina (serial starting with 37). I have an early 70s Tokina type 35 2.8, as before, it gives decent results without being a world beater.

The Minolta MD 28 2.8 came in two main versions (7 lenses 7 elements, or 5 lenses 5 elements). I have a 7/7 and am very happy with the results. The 5/5 lense was released later, and is probably also very good.

The Minolta MC HG 35 2.7 I don't have experience of, but it does have a reputation for having a sticky aperture, so be careful.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
@kiddo
You're right, I forgot to mention the use. It's for street photography on a Fuji X-Pro2. I'd like to hear your conclusions about the Pentacon.

@Alun Thomas
Thanks for the information. Apparently, then, I shouldn't go wrong with either any of the lenses. I currently have Vivitars and I must say I'm rather pleased with these lenses: results are good, but I also the handling and operability. The ring is smooth with a good grip, and the distance scale is clear.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The later 5/5 version of the Minolta 35/2.8 is most probably one of the best 35mm lenses even for todays standards. Highly recommended.

The Minolta 28mm/F2.8 in it's 7/7 version isn't bad as well.
I've compared it here with some other 28mm lenses: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have Komine manufactured Vivitar 28mm f2.8 close focus (pictured) and 35mm f2.8 and both are very good. I mainly shoot landscape though.

X-Pro1 and Komine Vivitar 28mm f2.8 (Close Focus) lens by Andrew R, on Flickr


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
The later 5/5 version of the Minolta 35/2.8 is most probably one of the best 35mm lenses even for todays standards. Highly recommended.

The Minolta 28mm/F2.8 in it's 7/7 version isn't bad as well.
I've compared it here with some other 28mm lenses: http://forum.mflenses.com/28mm-lens-comparison-pentax-minolta-topcon-cv-kmz-t76791.html


That's very interesting, tb_a
Thanks for sharing this.
I guess my question would be, how can I tell if it's 5/5 or 7/7? Serial Number?


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Rosedalelad
Thanks, I'm glad to hear there's another happy Vivitar user.

I've heard a few times some discussions about the different versions, Komine vs Kiron, Tokina and so on and I forgot which one is supposed to be better, though I guess overall they are pretty good.

Nice leather case by the way!


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cgustav wrote:
I guess my question would be, how can I tell if it's 5/5 or 7/7? Serial Number?


The easiest and best way to identify the different Minolta versions can be found here: http://minolta.eazypix.de/lenses/


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cgustav wrote:
@Rosedalelad
Thanks, I'm glad to hear there's another happy Vivitar user.

I've heard a few times some discussions about the different versions, Komine vs Kiron, Tokina and so on and I forgot which one is supposed to be better, though I guess overall they are pretty good.

Nice leather case by the way!


Well, it's my opinion that the Komine manufactured Vivitars are better made and better performing. I have a Komine 55mm macro 1:1 and it's just superb.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rosedalelad wrote:

Well, it's my opinion that the Komine manufactured Vivitars are better made and better performing. I have a Komine 55mm macro 1:1 and it's just superb.


That's good to know. I think I had found a page with the information on how to determine if it's Komine or another manufacturer. I'll check it, it may come handy.

Edit: this https://www.cameraquest.com/VivLensManuf.htm


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cgustav wrote:
Rosedalelad wrote:

Well, it's my opinion that the Komine manufactured Vivitars are better made and better performing. I have a Komine 55mm macro 1:1 and it's just superb.


That's good to know. I think I had found a page with the information on how to determine if it's Komine or another manufacturer. I'll check it, it may come handy.

Edit: this https://www.cameraquest.com/VivLensManuf.htm


If the serial number starts with a 28 then it's Komine.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Minolta MC Rokkor-HG 35mm 2.8 is surprisingly good, I was expecting a budget level IQ, I couldn't find anything to complain about.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Pentacon 29mm is a sweet lens ,with pretty high contrast and saturation.

The Meyer Optik Görlitz 29mm has the same optical formula, but before the big eat-german merger into Pentacon. The Meyer is probably a bit better built.

*EDIT* here's a recent thread about it: http://forum.mflenses.com/pentacon-meyer-goerlitz-29mm-f-2-8-london-south-bank-t80227.html


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You might also look at Pentax. The super-takumar 35mm F3.5 is very compact and sharp and contrasty. SMC Pentax-m 28mm F3.5 is a very sharp and contrasty lens.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sjak wrote:
The Pentacon 29mm is a sweet lens ,with pretty high contrast and saturation.

The Meyer Optik Görlitz 29mm has the same optical formula, but before the big eat-german merger into Pentacon. The Meyer is probably a bit better built.

*EDIT* here's a recent thread about it: http://forum.mflenses.com/pentacon-meyer-goerlitz-29mm-f-2-8-london-south-bank-t80227.html


I second the Meyer Optik version, delightful lens for little outlay, use a hood for best results, also I have the Auto Takumar 35mm F3.5 and again a delightful lens and very small, ideal for the Fuji.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
he 28 and 35 mm don't offer same view in FF, in crop sensor things change more. .


Please explain. The angles of view change by crop factor sure but the difference is the same.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The wide range of choice at 28mm has been touched on. This thread on pentax forums covers the same terrain:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/382516-kiron-28mm-f2-mc-smc-k-pentax-28mm-f3-5-a.html

Because you are using mirrorless, your options include lenses like minoltas, canon FD's, because there are simple adapters for them due to the short registration distance. As a loose rule of thumb, the oem lenses do tend to be better. My experience is that 28mm is a reliable focal length, you'll rarely go wrong, but equally you have to hunt around and be quite discriminating to find one that really does better than a good "kit" lens.

At 35mm I would say lenses like the vivitars are not so meritworthy. I like my komine made vivitar 35mm f2.8 though mainly for landscape. The Carl Zeiss Jena flektogon 35mm f2.4 has to be mentioned, but is IMO overpriced. The vivitar 35mm f1.9 (komine) would be good but can you find one?
For street pics how about the tamron adaptall SP 01A 35-80mm f2.8-3.8? One of the best vintage MF zooms with prime like sharpness, warm rendering, and the zoom range takes you right through portrait focal lengths. Worth paying a bit extra for a good one with good mechanics (worn/loose mechanics a bugbear with these). Alt: the easily available and dirt cheap 35-70mm 17A adaptall has actually iq close to that of the 01A 35-80mm and is overall a very similar 2 ring lens, so if you acquired that it would give you a look to see if you like it/would work for you.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
kiddo wrote:
he 28 and 35 mm don't offer same view in FF, in crop sensor things change more. .


Please explain. The angles of view change by crop factor sure but the difference is the same.


I meant, the difference between the 28 and 35 mm is only 7mm ,but in a crop m4/3 there are 14mm difference in focal length. Depending what he's going to use the lens for, might suit him better the 28 or the 35 (close shots portraits the 28 would do better in m4/3 ,but in fuji the 35 would be the right choice).


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:


I meant, the difference between the 28 and 35 mm is only 7mm ,but in a crop m4/3 there are 14mm difference in focal length. Depending what he's going to use the lens for, might suit him better the 28 or the 35 (close shots portraits the 28 would do better in m4/3 ,but in fuji the 35 would be the right choice).


What you need to understand kiddo is that the "equivalence" focal lengths are misleading (in fact focal length is a fixed physical property of the lens), what the point is here is the field of view. In effect different sized sensors will capture different sized crops of the image circle projected by the lens.
On a full frame camera, 3:2 format, a 28mm lens has a horizontal FoV of 65.5°, a 35mm lens has a FoV of 54.4° (difference in degrees ~11)
On an apsc sensor camera, a 28mm lens has a FoV of ~46°, a 35mm lens has a FoV of ~38° (difference in degrees ~8 ).
On a M43 sensor camera it's 35.6° and ~29° (difference in degrees ~6.5 )

In general as the sensor gets smaller, the difference in field of view between two particular focal lengths gets less, because it's (effectively) ever increasingly telephoto.

Last edited by marcusBMG on Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
marcusBMG wrote:


In general as the sensor gets smaller, the difference in field of view between two particular focal lengths gets less, because it's (effectively) ever increasingly telephoto.


Dfference in angle of view remains exactly the same.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:


I meant, the difference between the 28 and 35 mm is only 7mm ,but in a crop m4/3 there are 14mm difference in focal length. Depending what he's going to use the lens for, might suit him better the 28 or the 35 (close shots portraits the 28 would do better in m4/3 ,but in fuji the 35 would be the right choice).



I see exactly what you are getting at kiddo, but perhaps the terminology used isn't quite right. The focal length of the 28 or 35mm lenses does not change because you use a crop sensor. Crop sensors only give the appearance that the focal length has changed due to the field of view changing (you are looking though a smaller portion of the 28 or 35 lens). The only thing that can change the properties of a lens is more glass, for example a focal reducer or a multiplier.


I hope that makes sense. For example, if you put a 28mm lens on an MFT camera, you don't get a 56mm lens. You get all the properties of a 28mm lens, including its focal length, but with a narrower view through it that makes it look like a 56. It isn't a 56. It's still a 28, with all the properties that entails.

I can see why this gets confusing as I don't think I've explained it very well myself.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Dfference in angle of view remains exactly the same.


Across each lens, this is true.
You may have misses Marcus' bit of explanation:

marcusBMG wrote:
In effect different sized sensors will capture different sized crops of the image circle projected by the lens.

So, the angle of view does not change across any given lens's focal length,
while the ability of a given sensor size to capture it is a variable.
As the sensor becomes smaller, it is able to capture a smaller portion of the
total available image as projected by the lens.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
marcusBMG wrote:


In general as the sensor gets smaller, the difference in field of view between two particular focal lengths gets less, because it's (effectively) ever increasingly telephoto.


Dfference in angle of view remains exactly the same.


see my amended post with difference in degrees added.
Just put a zoom lens on your camera and see the change in field of view for yourself over eg 10mm focal length of zoom at the wide angle end and then the telephoto end.


PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
if you want to buy the Vivitar 28mm lens, please remember to check the aperture of the lens.
As I knew lots of this lens especially Kiron version got oil inside and the aperture stay wide open.
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