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Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed Reply with quote
Hello everybody,
My name is Steffie and a am new to this forum and in desperate need of advice.
I have a Nikon D40x and next to my modern zooms a modest collection of old mf Nikon glass which, onfortunately will not meter on my camera. Also I have inherited two old Takumar lenses. So now I am looking for a camerabody on which I can use both brands - and hopefully in future also a couple of others - with infinity focussing, metering and possibly also IS.
Within my limited budget I have been looking at three camera's:

The Canon 1000D which has excellent image quality. But somewhere on this forum I found a compatability lens which shows that I cannot mount all Takumars without loosing infinity while the Nikons lenses were a questionmark because there was only one listed.

Another possibility would be the Pentax K2000/km. Would be great for the Takumars. I have read that I would be able to use my non-ai nikkors straight on this camera (is this true?) but for the others I seem to need an adapter with glass, which I rather not.

Then there is of course Olympus. I was thinking about the E510 or 520. I have doubts however about the image quality of these cameras. I have read somewhere that not al mf lensen perform very well on the Olympus and on the Imaging Resource comparometer imagequality of the Olympus seemed rather inferior to the quality of both the Pentax and the Canon.

So now I am at a loss of what to choose. Any advice, comment or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed Reply with quote
If IS is not important for you, go with the Canon. You'll get infinity on all your Nikkors and Takumars (you only need to watch out with the full frame Canons).


If IS is important, your only choices are Pentax, Sony, and Olympus, but with 4/3 you get even higher crop factor. Your Nikkor 50mm is gonna have an FOV equiv. of 100mm lens. Not optimal.


In that case, I'd recommend the Pentax. You will have to fiddle with your Nikkors if you want a stable mount (I've heard it's fairly easy to mod the mounts). You can apparently pseudo-mount Nikon lenses to the Pentax bayonet, but the mounting isn't secure, and you wouldn't want to be running around with the setup outdoors.

Good luck.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do not think IS is indispensable, however.

Don't forget for instance that people or animals who move, require at least 1/250 of shooting time to freeze movement. You will have to set this time if you don't want a blurred subject. IS will let you help not have pictures with hand shake at, say, 1/25, but at this time, most of the moving objects in your pictures will be irremediably blurred.
So IS is only really useful when shooting hand-held still subjects, like landscapes. But, for this type of photography, many things can help: a tripod Wink, a tree, a wall...

If you use wisely your lens aperture, your shooting time, and your ISO setting, you can still manage to photograph without IS in most situations.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Remember that you will lose automatic aperture for your Nikkors - which makes taking a shot a rather different experience.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
sichko wrote:
Remember that you will lose automatic aperture for your Nikkors - which makes taking a shot a rather different experience.


Do old Nikkors work with auto aperture (i.e. Time Priority mode) on Nikon DSLR?


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you for your reactions.
On my Nikon D40x mf lenses can only be used in fully manual mode. So I have to set both aperture and shutterspeed myself.
I have come to believe that on the cameras mentioned above, canon, pentax, olympus and maybe even sony, I can set the apperture with the aperturering on the lens and that the camera then chooses the shutterspeed automatically. At least when I set the camera in aperture mode. Is that correct?


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
On the Canon - yes. You will find the majority of lenses will handle just fine. I would recommend using adapters with the chip in - it allows the camera to give focus confirm, which can be an asset.


patrickh

Another option, which I shall be trying soon, is to use the old split-image focusing device.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
sichko wrote:
Remember that you will lose automatic aperture for your Nikkors - which makes taking a shot a rather different experience.


Do old Nikkors work with auto aperture (i.e. Time Priority mode) on Nikon DSLR?


By "auto-aperture" I refer to the fact that the aperture stays wide open for focusing and that the camera stops-down (automatically) on pressing the shutter release and immediately prior to the shutter opening. Ai and Ais lenses work in this way. I believe that many pre-Ai lenses do also.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steffie wrote:
Thank you for your reactions.
On my Nikon D40x mf lenses can only be used in fully manual mode. So I have to set both aperture and shutterspeed myself.


Yes - you have to set the working aperture with the aperture ring. But the aperture remains fully open until you press the shutter release. This may make focusing easier in some situations. If you mount a Nikkor on a Canon, for example, you will have to either (i) focus with the lens stopped down at the working aperture, or (ii) focus with the lens wide open, and then stop down manually prior to pressing the shutter release.


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sichko wrote:
Orio wrote:
sichko wrote:
Remember that you will lose automatic aperture for your Nikkors - which makes taking a shot a rather different experience.


Do old Nikkors work with auto aperture (i.e. Time Priority mode) on Nikon DSLR?


By "auto-aperture" I refer to the fact that the aperture stays wide open for focusing and that the camera stops-down (automatically) on pressing the shutter release and immediately prior to the shutter opening. Ai and Ais lenses work in this way. I believe that many pre-Ai lenses do also.


Ah ok, now I understand.


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed Reply with quote
A mode does work with my Nikkors mounted on my Pentax, but I almost never use them because of the awkward fit.

rawhead wrote:
....I've heard it's fairly easy to mod the mounts....
Good luck.


rawhead do you know any link / instructions on how to modify the mount to make a better fit?

thank you,
kuuan - andreas


PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
A mode does work with my Nikkors mounted on my Pentax, but I almost never use them because of the awkward fit.

rawhead wrote:
....I've heard it's fairly easy to mod the mounts....
Good luck.


rawhead do you know any link / instructions on how to modify the mount to make a better fit?

thank you,
kuuan - andreas

There is a link somewhere on this forum to a Chinese site where one of the members gave an illustrated account of the mod required. It's not a huge job and one I fancied doing, so I saved the link and now I can't find it, of course. I'll keep looking for it.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have numerous MF lenses (Minolta Rokkor, Olympus OM, Nikkor, Pentax M42, Konica Hexanon) all of whihc can be fitted to my Olympus E-510.

If you buy a DSLR to use with MF lenses, and you do not trust the "Focus confirm" on the adapters you can buy, then it is almost essential to have "Liveview", to help with manually focusing. The Olympus E-510 & E-520 and upwards have this.

(BTW, I have no particular bias towards or away from any brand of DSLR, as I have Pentax, Nikon, Canon, Olympus & Konica-Minolta cameras)


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dnas wrote:

(BTW, I have no particular bias towards or away from any brand of DSLR, as I have Pentax, Nikon, Canon, Olympus & Konica-Minolta cameras)


'sigh' speaking of envy.....
Does that mean you do not see any great difference in image quality between the Olympus and for instance the Canon. Because that is my main concern.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed Reply with quote
Farside wrote:

There is a link somewhere on this forum to a Chinese site where one of the members gave an illustrated account of the mod required. It's not a huge job and one I fancied doing, so I saved the link and now I can't find it, of course. I'll keep looking for it.



Do I understand correctly that this is NOT the mod where one substitutes the mount of the Nikkor with an M42 > K adapter with a flange that does not allow snug fit + infinity focus, BUT a mod where one files on either lens and / or camera mount?


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would recommend to go for an used Canon 40d.
These are not expensive and have a good eye viewer.
The Canon 1000d / Pentax-m are considered small DSLR, and have a smaller ey viewer. Even with a split screen, focusing may still be hard to do.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thank you Alex, that is useful info, though it gives me a new dilemma. Being female and having small hands I prefer the smaller and lighter bodies. I am afraid I will just have to go to a store and try them out. See if I can handle a bigger camera.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Which dslr for my mf lensen - advice needed Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:


Do I understand correctly that this is NOT the mod where one substitutes the mount of the Nikkor with an M42 > K adapter with a flange that does not allow snug fit + infinity focus, BUT a mod where one files on either lens and / or camera mount?


That's it. The K mount is removed from the camera and some metal filed away from the rear of it to allow the Nikon bayonet to rotate more fully into position. It doesn't interfere with normal use of K mount lenses either.

Looking through my bookmarks, I'm fairly sure this is it, but it's gone down. http://mybigeye.myweb.hinet.net/big5/photodiy.htm
Makes me wish I'd copied the pages now.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steffie wrote:
thank you Alex, that is useful info, though it gives me a new dilemma. Being female and having small hands I prefer the smaller and lighter bodies. I am afraid I will just have to go to a store and try them out. See if I can handle a bigger camera.


Hi Steffie
Welcome to the group Very Happy
I must second Alex and Orio. The Canon 40d is excellent and inexpensive.
There is a Canon high contrast focus screen available for about $30 to aid MF focussing.
Also live view.
As to IS. It is useful dependant on situations.
If you are a Portrait shooter for example it is not going to help much if at all.
Rarely will IS help you more than a high quality high ISO camera.
The 40d is quite usable at 800 and fine at 1600 for smaller prints and web use.
As to size. I think you will find it very comfortable in use.
A friend uses a Nik D3 and she is a very petite Gal. The 40D/50D/5D body is much smaller.


Cheers
Andy

Last edited by F16SUNSHINE on Sat May 02, 2009 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steffie,
Any Nikon DSLR from the D200 & up will meter with older MF glass unless they are unmodified Pre-Ai mount lenses. Also, you can get adapters that allow for infinity focus on the M42 screw mount lenses, however, you will have to meter stopped down. No matter what route you go, there will be trade offs & work arounds that may concern you. Do your research first before proceeding.And IS/VR isn't all that it's cracked up to be. yeah it does help with ones inability to hand hold a lens, primarily telephoto lenses, but as has been said, it doesn't help with subject movement. You have to analyze the type of shooting you are going to do to determine whether or not it's worth it. Personally, I'd opt for faster glass over IS/VR any day of the week. BTW, shooting in all manual isn't hard to do at all. I do it all the time. I'm shooting with a Nikon D70s which won't meter with MF lenses either & I also have several screw mount lenses I use on it with adapters. I also moderate a group on Flickr that is all about using non metering lenses on Nikon DSLR's if you are interested in doing this. I grew up using film cameras that didn't meter or wouldn't meter if the battery failed so I am comfortable shooting this way...


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: @ kuuan Reply with quote
I knew there was another reference to the same thing. From poster CarbonR... http://forum.mflenses.com/pentax-k20d-k10d-with-nikon-lenses-t15144.html#128120

Now I'll keep a copy of that page for my own reference Smile


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Screamin Scott wrote:
Steffie,
Any Nikon DSLR from the D200 & up will meter with older MF glass unless they are unmodified Pre-Ai mount lenses. Also, you can get adapters that allow for infinity focus on the M42 screw mount lenses, however, you will have to meter stopped down. No matter what route you go, there will be trade offs & work arounds that may concern you. Do your research first before proceeding.And IS/VR isn't all that it's cracked up to be. yeah it does help with ones inability to hand hold a lens, primarily telephoto lenses, but as has been said, it doesn't help with subject movement. You have to analyze the type of shooting you are going to do to determine whether or not it's worth it. Personally, I'd opt for faster glass over IS/VR any day of the week. BTW, shooting in all manual isn't hard to do at all. I do it all the time. I'm shooting with a Nikon D70s which won't meter with MF lenses either & I also have several screw mount lenses I use on it with adapters. I also moderate a group on Flickr that is all about using non metering lenses on Nikon DSLR's if you are interested in doing this. I grew up using film cameras that didn't meter or wouldn't meter if the battery failed so I am comfortable shooting this way...



My first DSLR was NIKON D50 I didn't miss metering at all. With little practice you don't need to make many test shoot to get right result. Not worst than DSLR+split screen combo where is need all time adjust metering.


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: @ kuuan Reply with quote
Farside wrote:
I knew there was another reference to the same thing. From poster CarbonR... http://forum.mflenses.com/pentax-k20d-k10d-with-nikon-lenses-t15144.html#128120

Now I'll keep a copy of that page for my own reference Smile


thank you very much Farside for going into the trouble finding the page again, thank you very much indeed.
it looks as if only a little bit of filing is necessary, will try this on my aging 'istDs when I am back 'from the road'

( and sorry for somewhat hijacking this thread.. Embarassed however this is very valuable information which maybe should be hosted here as well? )


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hello Steffie.

Owner of a 40D, I recommend it for MF Lenses.
Reasons are told by my above friends.

Olivier Smile


PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steffie
I have the D200 and Canon 40D. I do not own a single Canon lens. But my Canon is great with all of my lenses except the P6 mount which I use on my nikon. I currently use C/Y, M42, M39, Nikkor and Exakta on the Canon. The camera is just as easy to handle as the D200. My D70 is a little smaller and also very easy to handle, and only meters with nikkor AF lenses. "Chimping" is a lot easier with digital than Scott's estimating with film - the wonderful distribution diagram tells you pretty much all you need to know and the delete on the card gives you back the room.
Try them out for comfort - pretty much all the latest DSLR's can accomodate MF lenses one way or another.

patrickh
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