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Take care when cleaning lens from fungus
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi, today I realized I've got many of lens attacked by fungus during Winter: Tair 133 (very obvious fungus), Trioplan 100, Triotar 135 and Tair 300 starting to be as well. I plainly underestimated the situation, having long-term humidity problems in my house, especially at one of the corners my lenses are currently stored.

Never facing such a stupid crappy organism, I wonder what to do next? My only "weapons" are one small silica gel package, lot of various lights in my room and two corners with significantly lower humidity (you can actually see that from walls).

Can I save (or at least stabilize) the situation simply by putting lens into an open vitrine with light source installed in? Of course without caps, I believe dust can be always easily removed, have some basic tools for it. Wouldn't that be better than dark, humid, relatively warm corner of my wardrobe (or what is it actually) and with caps?

If having some not yet infected lens (or at least not visible), like Telemegor 180, Helios 40 (living with me for not a long time, actually), or some apparently more fungus-resistant modern lenses, should I keep them as far as possible or is this just a blind myth?

Seems to be a rather seasonal problem. Like the lens might miss especially the sun or possibly light source of any kind. Didn't have that problem in Summer perhaps because majority of lens was just frequently in use.

Thanks for any help. Ain't going to underestimate that crap again.


PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just a word of warning... If you leave the lens in an acid long enough, it can strip the metal coatings off the glass. May take a long time but soaking an element in vinegar long enough could do this. Note that I haven't tried to find out how much time is required, but I might to fix a lens with scratches in the coating that render it less than functional.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I haven't seen any mention of the haze in the lenses ,posibly after the fungus cleaning. I have just cleaned a pentacon 200 with fungus ,which camed off pretty easy,as the fungus was on the edges and small, but after cleaning with isopropyl alcohol, there's still some haze in the glass. Anybody could tell me what opions are there to get rid of the haze? Maybe some hands cream polishing the lens? Sad


PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
a20010494 wrote:
Quoted from pentaxforums:
If you can get the on your camera, they're great: any fungus they harbour is easily cleaned up with some clotrimazole cream.

True?



That's what I've been using for some years. Contained in the form of a tube of athlete's foot remedy. It has proved highly effective. As an experiment, I've washed off on my Takumar lenses and just buffed off on the PK lenses, to see if the Clotrimazole has any 'active' ability long term. As I only started doing this about 4 years ago, there's nothing to report.


For me, using Clotrimazole is an experiment, and on lenses I've paid relatively little for really, so to anyone wanting to try, I'd start there too.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Being new to the forum, please forgive if I missed this question being previously addressed -

Does anyone have experience using copper exposure as a fungicide? Not used for the cleaning per say, but rather to kill the mildew and as a separate preventative measure. I've recently seen demonstrated where one would put maybe 5 dollars worth of copper pennies into a few clean socks, which are then tied shut and heated in a clothes drier until as hot as they will get. The socks and lens then get sealed in a zip lock bag for several hours, while 1. copper released gasses, killing the mildew present and 2. The heated socks absorb any moisture present in the lens. Could be used to to desicate a wet lens or as treatment before/after actual cleaning process. Any thoughts? Thank you!


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DaveBob wrote:
Being new to the forum, please forgive if I missed this question being previously addressed -

Does anyone have experience using copper exposure as a fungicide? Not used for the cleaning per say, but rather to kill the mildew and as a separate preventative measure. I've recently seen demonstrated where one would put maybe 5 dollars worth of copper pennies into a few clean socks, which are then tied shut and heated in a clothes drier until as hot as they will get. The socks and lens then get sealed in a zip lock bag for several hours, while 1. copper released gasses, killing the mildew present and 2. The heated socks absorb any moisture present in the lens. Could be used to to desicate a wet lens or as treatment before/after actual cleaning process. Any thoughts? Thank you!


Copper sulfate might work as it is a fungizide, but I honestely doubt that copper pennies will work - which "gases" are they supposed to give into the surrounding air??


PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fungus doesn’t grow on surfaces treated with copper, such as sulfate in solution applied to wood.

First, most pennies are alloys no copper as the copper necessary costs nearly two cents!

Placing glass & metal next to hot object; the uneven heating worries about thermal stresses can break glass.


PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Fungus doesn’t grow on surfaces treated with copper, such as sulfate in solution applied to wood.

First, most pennies are alloys no copper as the copper necessary costs nearly two cents!

Placing glass & metal next to hot object; the uneven heating worries about thermal stresses can break glass.


I don't know much about the actual composition of the coins these days, but did note that pennies definitely still oxidize green within a day when suspended in a closed jar containing a little bit of vinigar (aka the old statue of liberty science trick). They also do emit a noticeable oder (suspected too not be entirely from drugs and grubby fingers), when warmed in one's hand. The smell does become more pronounced the more they are heated... And does linger on the hands for an unnervingly long time, unless vigorously scrubbed with soap. I would think that these are good indicators that - while not pure enough to scrap for drugs - the copper content is still sufficiently high enough to emit "something smelly" and uniquely coppery.

Regarding glass damage - there was no mention of any direct contact being necessary and I absolutely am not suggesting to nestle the hot metal right up against the glass. I also do not think that using this trick was meant to circumvent the need to gradually acclimate cold lenses to room temperature. It seemed the reason for heating in a clothes drier was to limit the upper end of the heat, while getting the fumes rolling.

I haven't gone so far as to replicate the full demonstration I saw.... but that is mostly due to having no "clean" socks to spare for the purpose. I take it that this is more gnostic lore than what one would call common practice?


PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DaveBob wrote:
Being new to the forum, please forgive if I missed this question being previously addressed -

Does anyone have experience using copper exposure as a fungicide? Not used for the cleaning per say, but rather to kill the mildew and as a separate preventative measure. I've recently seen demonstrated where one would put maybe 5 dollars worth of copper pennies into a few clean socks, which are then tied shut and heated in a clothes drier until as hot as they will get. The socks and lens then get sealed in a zip lock bag for several hours, while 1. copper released gasses, killing the mildew present and 2. The heated socks absorb any moisture present in the lens. Could be used to to desicate a wet lens or as treatment before/after actual cleaning process. Any thoughts? Thank you!


If this works it will be by removing the moisture in the lenses. Copper does not release any gases when heated to moderate temperatures, it melts at over 1000°C & doesn't boil till over 2500°C so it's not got any significant volatility. Copper oxide melts at a higher temperature (~1200°C) and even the sulfide doesn't melt till 500°C.

Any smell you get from the coins is not the copper itself, more likely from all the grubby paws it's been held by.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobody's got experience with cleaning haze from lenses? I've got a second lens with haze on the edges, didn't come of with isopropyl ,neither oxygenated water. Could it be that it won't clean out because coatings have been affected? Could polish be a last chance to clear out the glass element?


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Nobody's got experience with cleaning haze from lenses? I've got a second lens with haze on the edges, didn't come of with isopropyl ,neither oxygenated water. Could it be that it won't clean out because coatings have been affected? Could polish be a last chance to clear out the glass element?



Could it possibly be a doublet, kiddo and the issue is between the glass?


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Last edited by Blazer0ne on Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Surface etching might be repaired using the same techniques as for scratched front or rear elements. Image may be darker with increased contrast


PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Finally, I've opened de nFD135 2.8. The front ring wouldn't open at all , so I had to make 2 holes to use a spanner,and once opened, it opened the underneath ring which ties up the front glass to the body. The 2 front glass have haze around the edges and some white spots around , after cleaning with alcohol isopropyl and also oxigenated water , no way it could clean just a little bit. There is no cemented elements in front group, was wondering if i should use some polish cream (like auto etc)? To get rid of the haze?


PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Finally, I've opened de nFD135 2.8. The front ring wouldn't open at all , so I had to make 2 holes to use a spanner,and once opened, it opened the underneath ring which ties up the front glass to the body. The 2 front glass have haze around the edges and some white spots around , after cleaning with alcohol isopropyl and also oxigenated water , no way it could clean just a little bit. There is no cemented elements in front group, was wondering if i should use some polish cream (like auto etc)? To get rid of the haze?



I think it's time for a picture of it kiddo, if you can.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've put it back together ,but I'll take it apart again ,to try to clean the haze with other options. The front group it's got 2 glasses plus a cemented underneath all this until the blades. First ,need to remove the 3 screws that are under the integrated hood, to remove the last 2 glasses ,need it to get our a spring which is easy to remove. Finally, its a piece off cake until the blades. I've bought an 85 1.8 nFD which is3 very nice,but suffered flrom5 the same haze on the edges and white circular spots around it, finally I've returned it. Canon nFD are the lenses where I've seen theses kind of bubbles white spots and haze , even though I've a pentacon 200 f4 with light exterior haze, in that case it cleaned pretty well.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sciolist wrote:
kiddo wrote:
Finally, I've opened de nFD135 2.8. The front ring wouldn't open at all , so I had to make 2 holes to use a spanner,and once opened, it opened the underneath ring which ties up the front glass to the body. The 2 front glass have haze around the edges and some white spots around , after cleaning with alcohol isopropyl and also oxigenated water , no way it could clean just a little bit. There is no cemented elements in front group, was wondering if i should use some polish cream (like auto etc)? To get rid of the haze?



I think it's time for a picture of it kiddo, if you can.


So we may differentiate between separation, coating degradation, and fungus as treatment is different for each cause...


PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In this case, the cemented part wasn't affected , only the 2 glasses on top of it, the one of the outside more than the other. I could say coatings affected indeed, not sure that it is fungus , as I didn't see any trace of fungus. I remember long time ago, I received a helios 58 f2 with loads of haze (I've already forgotten I had it) ,wich after cleaning, it came out the haze but coatings affected by fungus, it seemed like all cracked. The good thing is i had the front glass for spares....


PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some coatings are evidently much tastier than others.


PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some optical glasses can be damaged by long-term contact with condensation. I believe HOYA referred to this as "dimming"; alkali ions dissolve into the water condensation which then erodes the silica gel layer of the polished surface, and which leaves a hazy residue on the glass after the water evaporates. This haze cannot be cleaned off and requires re-polishing of the glass.

Source: H.H Karow, "Fabrication Methods For Precison Optics", 2004, Wiley Interscience


PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it true that zippo fluid might remove coatings instantly on some lenses ?


PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Had great success with fungus and haze removal using Dr. Bronner's Pure Castile Liquid Soap Baby Mild Unscented.


https://www.vitacost.com/


PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Is it true that zippo fluid might remove coatings instantly on some lenses ?


I've heard that too about lenses with soft coatings (inner elements) and soft inner exotic elements. For example:

http://forum.mflenses.com/smudge-haze-after-fungus-cleaning-t75750.html

and in

http://forum.mflenses.com/rokkor-58mm-f-12-question-t66991.html

Quote:
papasito wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:
papasito wrote:
I had the "X" versión but the coated of the first element was green.


That green inner coating on the first element of early Rokkors is like a Padrón pepper: you won't know if it is a later hard green coating or an early soft green coating until you touch it...

So if you want to clean the inside (green) coating of an early Rokkor lens, be very careful! The slightest mechanical contact on the soft one will scratch it; that one can only be rinsed with a solvent!


Yes, you are right.

I had this problem with the inner element of the 58/1,4 MC And with the MC 50/1,4.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you ,I wonder what kind of solvent was he referring to....


PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
On the soft green coatings of the Rokkors I have used three solvents:

- distilled water
- 99.9% isopropyl alcohol (IPA, isopropanol)
- acetone

None of those seemed to have harmed the coating, but I did have to use a combination of the solvents to eliminate drying marks; a drying mark left by one solvent often (but not always) rinses off using a different solvent.

I cannot at all guarantee that these solvents are safe for the soft coatings of other lens makes!!!, so be careful!
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