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Skoparex 3.4/35
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Skoparex 3.4/35 Reply with quote
Is anybody able to provide some info on the Skoparex 3.4/35 lens?
I know very little about it, here's what I know:

- it was an original Voigtlaender design

- it was first produced for the Bessa small format camera

- it was then planned for the Icarex camera, when they bought Voigtlaender, Zeiss produced the Skoparex under the Zeiss name

The main thing I am curious about it's the optical scheme.
There are only two possibilities:

1- that is'a retrofocus scheme (such as Distagon, Flektogon)
2- that it's a Tessar scheme

The relatively slow speed (f/3.4) leaves the Tessar possibility open, although usually the Tessar wides were around f/4 or slower

In case it's a retrofocus, it would be nice to know how many elements/groups

This is about the only existing online gallery that I have found made with this lens (there are others, but they are made with the Bessa lens):

http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=574960

I like what I see, I can't wait for the EOS adapter to arrive in order to test the Skoparex on my digitals.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Skoparex 3.4/35 Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Is anybody able to provide some info on the Skoparex 3.4/35 lens?
I know very little about it, here's what I know:

- it was an original Voigtlaender design

- it was first produced for the Bessa small format camera

- it was then planned for the Icarex camera, when they bought Voigtlaender, Zeiss produced the Skoparex under the Zeiss name

The main thing I am curious about it's the optical scheme.
There are only two possibilities:

1- that is'a retrofocus scheme (such as Distagon, Flektogon)
2- that it's a Tessar scheme

The relatively slow speed (f/3.4) leaves the Tessar possibility open, although usually the Tessar wides were around f/4 or slower

In case it's a retrofocus, it would be nice to know how many elements/groups

This is about the only existing online gallery that I have found made with this lens (there are others, but they are made with the Bessa lens):

http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=574960

I like what I see, I can't wait for the EOS adapter to arrive in order to test the Skoparex on my digitals.


Hi Orio,

here a link to a short discussion about the Skoparex in our german forum.. maybe this would be helpful if you use online translator.

There you can find some links to images i have taken with the Skoparex.. the are in the posts.. but some of the links doesnt work any longer after a server crash on the ISP... but some of them give a short impression of the lens IQ

http://www.digicamclub.de/showthread.php?t=8769





Cheers
Henry

Last edited by hinnerker on Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As far as i know, its the same formula as the skoparex for the bessamatic cams..

this means a 6Elements in 5 Groups enhanced retrofocus design. Triplet





Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My opinion to the skoparex...

its a nice little lens, not a very good performer in terms of edge sharpness on a fullframe cam, but gives you nice and contrasty colors, lots of details and a special "flair" in images. I did love the lens.

Maybe i have some of my shots taken with the Skoparex in my archive.. must search for that in the next days.

I think, you will love the lens.

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Henry for the info and the design image.

wow, it looks a lot like the very first Nikkor 35mm f/2.8 "tick mark" - only, the Nikkor had one more element:



Which, as Marco Cavina says, in turn is derived from the first retrofocus design by Angénieux, the R1 type 35mm f/2.5

Very interesting!

So it's neither Tessar nor Distagon/Flektogon... rather "angenieuisch". Wink

Now I REALLY can't wait to try it!

Marco Cavina's article:
http://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcocavina/articoli_fotografici/Nikkor_optical_variations/00_pag.htm
-


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And here's the original Angénieux R1 Type 35mm f/2.5:



(also a Marco Cavina diagram, from the same web page linked in previous message)

I would say, the Skoparex is nearly identical to the Angénieux lens.
The main difference is, the Angénieux is significantly faster.

Very interesting "liaisons". I would not have suspected at all!


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is also very similar to Auto Takumar 35/2.3 Smile



introduced in 1959, but I found no data about date of development

http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Pentax_Takumar_e.html


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very intersting! Does anybody know whether the Enna Super-Lithagon 2.5/35 is similar design or different?




PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
It is also very similar to Auto Takumar 35/2.3 Smile


Yep.
Evidently the Angénieux lens has made quite a following Smile


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mflex-on wrote:
Very intersting! Does anybody know whether the Enna Super-Lithagon 2.5/35 is similar design or different?


Well, the coincidence of focal lenght and unusual f/speed would suggest maybe a direct copy of the lens... who knows?
So very little is known about those old Ennas.

-


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mflex-on: I found only patent for f/3.5 Enna:




Seems to be some old model of the rare(?) Lithagon 35/3.5

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50518


Details of the patent can be found on patents.google.com under #2821112


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
mflex-on: I found only patent for f/3.5 Enna:



Seems to be some old model of the rare(?) Lithagon 35/3.5

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50518

Details of the patent can be found on patents.google.com under #2821112


The lens in this scheme is a Tessar type.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did you mean a triplet(?) The rear element is simple, it doesn't consist of the typical tessar-ish doublet...


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
mflex-on: I found only patent for f/3.5 Enna:




Seems to be some old model of the rare(?) Lithagon 35/3.5

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50518


Details of the patent can be found on patents.google.com under #2821112


I don't think it is very rare, as I have one (never tried though), an older example than the one from your link. It does not have a focusing helicoid: the whole barrel rotates.

Offtopic: I had a laugh when I saw Enna's current logo:



They now only make plastic things. I guess they got the idea from the later plastic Enna lenses Wink


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
Did you mean a triplet(?) The rear element is simple, it doesn't consist of the typical tessar-ish doublet...


The elements are separated, but they are four, not three, so I would call it a Tessar type more than a triplet (which implies three elements).


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The classical concept of retrofocal lenses consist of one front element or group of elements (typically negative), which is the base of retrofocal optical formulas and rear optical group.

Almost all typical designs were used for the rear group:


triplet:




tessar:




ernostar:




xenotar:




planar (ultron):




They are sometimes called (after character of the rear group) retrofocal tessar, retrofocal triplet, etc.

Anyway, later retrofocal lenses are more complex and these characteristic signs are present no more.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Enna f3.5 is NOT a Tessar design, it is still a triplett with added concave front lens to make it a
retro-design actually - the simplest possible. Enna has introduced later more complex retro designs,
all listed in detail in that little booklet I had mentioned earlier (I don't have scans handy of the designs).

(c) Horst Neuhaus what follows...



Here some designs taken from the very good ENNA site:
http://photobutmore.de/exakta/objektive/enna/

(notice thw unusual presenation: camera left, object right)

Lithagon 35mm:


Super-Lithagon 1.9/35mm - the fastest 35mm for many years!!

so if you think ENNA only copied designs to make cheap lenses, you couldn't be more wrong...

Last edited by kds315* on Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:45 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know, it still sounds weird to me to call "triplet" a lens that has four elements.

.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is a triplet-type, not a triplet. Four lenses just don't make a Tessar right?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I understand what you mean now.
(how is that your post, which was sent after mine, now appears before?)

I think it would be more correct to call these designs "triplet-based retrofocus".


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ORIO.

I used the skoparex 35 for a long time. Good lens, but more or less average for a Single coated wide angle. Good to very good at F/5,6-8 and excelent at F/11.

If you want to try a very special voigtlander lens, look for the Skopagon 2/40 (use with the hood, the same than the septon lens) it's prone to flare but the color rendering is superb, very contrast from F/4 and almost 0 distortion. Excelent lens !!!!

The septon 2/50 (schame similar to the hasselblad's planar 80mm) is prone to flare too, but very nice color and well corrected.

2/40 and 2/50 are the two jewels for the SRL voigtlander.

Good luck. Rino.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, the Enna Super Lithagon 2.5/35 is definitely not a cheap plastic lens.
"kadlubek" lens catalogue tells me of 6 lenses in 5 groups - but I do not know the design ...
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