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sinner79
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: Best 15 blades lenses |
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sinner79 wrote:
Which are best 15 blades lens?
Possible to have a list here? Thank you very much!
Last edited by sinner79 on Tue May 10, 2011 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Spotmatic
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 4045 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
Good idea! I also want a list of the best lenses with 6 blades and 9 blades. Preferably today as my time is limited. I want the information NOW! Please hurry! _________________ Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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fotkino
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 111 Location: Russia, Moscow
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Best 15 blades lenses |
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fotkino wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
Which are best 15 blades lens?
Possible to have a list here? Thank you very much! |
How about a 20 blades "Tair-11A"?
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20115/4233_mid_blades_1.jpg) |
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BRunner
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
The more blades, more Adidas...erm..."The more stripes..." ![Mr. Green](images/smiles/icon_mrgreen.gif) _________________ .: APO-Maniac :. |
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sinner79
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
Tair 11A king of bokeh? Better than Meyer/Pentacon 135 2.8? |
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fotkino
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 111 Location: Russia, Moscow
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:06 am Post subject: |
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fotkino wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
Tair 11A king of bokeh? Better than Meyer/Pentacon 135 2.8? |
Tair from USSR and cant be a "King" - comrade only
Flickr _________________ _____________________________________
Sorry for my English |
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sinner79
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
And a comparison with Pentacon/Meyer 15 blades ? Anyone have both of them and can tell an opinion?
thanks. |
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fotkino
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 04 May 2011 Posts: 111 Location: Russia, Moscow
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: |
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fotkino wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
And a comparison with Pentacon/Meyer 15 blades ? Anyone have both of them and can tell an opinion?
thanks. |
I'll get my Meyer on June, and can do it for you. (unless someone does it earlier) _________________ _____________________________________
Sorry for my English |
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BRunner
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
And a comparison with Pentacon/Meyer 15 blades ? Anyone have both of them and can tell an opinion?
thanks. |
Pentacon is overall better lens. Tair is triplet, needs to be stopped down to f8-f11 to get acceptable field and corner sharpness. _________________ .: APO-Maniac :. |
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themoleman342
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
The Tair 300mms (and all the various number designations) are triplets. The Tair 11A and 11 are not. |
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sinner79
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 02 May 2011 Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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sinner79 wrote:
Sorry...what's meaning of triplets? |
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woodrim
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
sinner79 wrote: |
Sorry...what's meaning of triplets? |
Born three at a time. Sorry, Spotmatic put me in a sarcastic mood. It's a lens design configuration.
I suppose there are many lenses with high number of blades, but understand that is just one contributor of bokeh.
I have yet to receive my "new" Tair 11; does it too have 20 blades? I suppose you get to a point where the iris is round enough and that occurs somewhere before 20 blades. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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BRunner
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 29 Jul 2009 Posts: 705 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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BRunner wrote:
themoleman342 wrote: |
The Tair 300mms (and all the various number designations) are triplets. The Tair 11A and 11 are not. |
Actually, they are...
![](http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/tair-11-lens.gif) _________________ .: APO-Maniac :. |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
BRunner wrote: |
themoleman342 wrote: |
The Tair 300mms (and all the various number designations) are triplets. The Tair 11A and 11 are not. |
Actually, they are...
![](http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/tair-11-lens.gif) |
Hmm, so if I buy a high quality mounted triplet assembly from surplusshed.com, say 600mm, can I mount it in a 600mm tube and it will work? _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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themoleman342
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
So a 4 element design in 3 groups is a triplet? |
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Spotmatic
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 4045 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
themoleman342 wrote: |
So a 4 element design in 3 groups is a triplet? |
Yes, it belongs to the triplets group. See also:
http://forum.mflenses.com/list-of-lens-diagrams-triplets-planars-and-hybrid-lenses-t22934.html _________________ Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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Attila
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
If you keep a distance beetwen subject and background any lens will have good 'bokeh' no matter how many blades are in. In fact many lens have very smooth bokeh with limited number of blades. This blade count craze remind me for those legends what say scratched lens is crap unusable.. which is not true also. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Attila wrote: |
If you keep a distance beetwen subject and background any lens will have good 'bokeh' no matter how many blades are in. In fact many lens have very smooth bokeh with limited number of blades. This blade count craze remind me for those legends what say scratched lens is crap unusable.. which is not true also. |
I agree,
Meyer Primotar 3.5/135 with 15 blades, bokeh is smooth but not spectacular:
Here the bokeh is nothing special at all because the flowers are not far out of focus:
Petri CC Auto 1.8/55 with 6 blades, bokeh is very good imho:
So I think my 6 blade Petri has better bokeh than my 15 blade Primotar, also, as Atilla says, the distance to the out of focus elements is crucial.
One reason I'm interested in getting an Industar 61LZ is that it has such sharp fall off from focus to out of focus areas. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Meopta Mirar it has square aperture with minimal blades...
And background separation still good , not the best example , but I don't have other photo.
http://forum.mflenses.com/meopta-mirar-35mm-f3-5-t34269,highlight,%2Bmeopta.html _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Arkku
![Level 3 Level 3](rating3.gif) Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Arkku wrote:
Also remember that wide open the number of blades makes zero difference as they are not even in the optical path… |
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woodrim
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
Ian: I'm guessing your Petri shot was wide open, in which case the aperture blades are irrelevant. Round becomes much more important when there are specular highlights that will take the shape of the iris. I have some lenses that are well known for their bokeh, but watch out for the bright lights! _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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Attila
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Arkku wrote: |
Also remember that wide open the number of blades makes zero difference as they are not even in the optical path… |
excellent! right ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Cistron
![Level 1 Level 1](rating1.gif) Joined: 25 Feb 2011 Posts: 238 Location: London/Vienna
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Cistron wrote:
Attila wrote: |
In fact many lens have very smooth bokeh with limited number of blades. This blade count craze remind me for those legends what say scratched lens is crap unusable.. which is not true also. |
I think the bokeh character is a lot more influenced by the "solidity" of the diffusion circles. If there are rough highlight edges, the bokeh will usually be less calm as well.
edit: having said that, I totally agree with you, Attila.
Last edited by Cistron on Wed May 11, 2011 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
Ian: I'm guessing your Petri shot was wide open, in which case the aperture blades are irrelevant. Round becomes much more important when there are specular highlights that will take the shape of the iris. I have some lenses that are well known for their bokeh, but watch out for the bright lights! |
Yes, both the Primotar and Petri shots are wide open, so as Arkku rightly points out, the number of blades isn't part of the equation...
My point was that the optical formula of a particular lens is what gives it it's bokeh characteristics, not the number of blades.
Helios 44 is renowned for nice bokeh but had what, 6 blades in most versions?
Take out the rear element group from a Helios 44 and the bokeh becomes much swirlier:
That example is wide open, but stop the lens down to f8 and the effect largely disappears:
Another wide-open example, I think this proves that optical formula is what makes boken, not blade count:
![](http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20115/4077_IMG_7794b_1.jpg) _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Excalibur
![Level 4 Level 4](rating4.gif) Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
***I think this proves that optical formula is what makes boken, not blade count:***
erm I'd rather have OOF round circles from 15 blades, for high lights, than say Pentagons from 5 blades.
E.g. ETRs 75mm with pentagons in the trees
![](http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/chakrata/smaller%20pixels%20for%20forums/StJamesPk800px.jpg) _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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