Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

400mm f/5.6 T-Noflexar
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: 400mm f/5.6 T-Noflexar Reply with quote
Early this year I bought a Leitz 560mm f/6.8 Telyt with the Novoflex PIGRIF-C rapid-focus grip. This was a regular Novoflex catalog item for a few years when Leica was clearing out their stock of 560mm f/6.8 lens heads. Despite the shortcomings of the 2-element design this has been an excellent lens for my wildlife work: see http://wildlightphoto.com/560n68.html

But this isn't about the 560. At the same time I bought a 400mm f/5.6 Novoflex T-Noflexar lens head to fit the PIGRIF-C, cheap. The T-Noflexar has an excellent reputation and my previous experience with this model was quite rewarding.

Once I tested the 400 I found out why it was so inexpensive: the image quality was so bad I couldn't even focus the lens. There was no discernible plane of focus! There was something seriously WRONG with this sample.

The T-Noflexar is a simple 3-element, 2-group design so there isn't much that can go wrong, and I couldn't imagine any plausible scenario that would have allowed this lens to escape the factory in this condition. It had to be service gone wrong. After some minor disassembly I reached the rear of the optical cell and noticed there were scratches in the retaining ring holding the rear element in place. I figured this was a sign that someone had been mucking around with the lens and had re-installed the rear element backwards.

This was some months ago, and it's taken until now to get my tools out and test the theory. Results: VERY promising! Before flipping the rear element around it was difficult to discern a plane of focus; after, the image in the viewfinder clearly snaps in and out of focus. Testing with pixels & daylight this weekend Smile


PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
good luck with it and be sure to post a photo of the lens and some sample images. thanks,,,


PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the non T version of this ( with Pigriff B ), recently acquired for less than 50 euros, it seems to be in very good condition. I have been patiently waiting for delivery of my m42 adapter, now almost two weeks, I am starting to wonder if it will come.....

Look forward to seeing some of your shots with this I have read good things about it and its probably the only cost effective way i`ll ever get to use Leica glass on my SonyA35!

I read an article translated from a German website which confirmed that Leica made the glass for these Novoflex Lens, can`t find the link in my bookmarks but will post if I do.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Macca wrote:
I read an article translated from a German website which confirmed that Leica made the glass for these Novoflex Lens, can`t find the link in my bookmarks but will post if I do.


I had heard the optical units were made by Staebel, except for the f/6.8 models which are clearly marked 'Leitz'.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Between rain showers I did some quick test of the lens, and compared it with my reference 400mm lens (actually a 280mm lens with 1.4x extender). The Novoflex is intended as a backup for the reference lens.

In a nutshell (see pix) the reference lens delivers a warmer color rendition and shows no sign of spherochromatic abberation; image detail is quite good from both lenses.

The images are 100% crops of the central area of the test images at full aperture. I've applied slight sharpening to the in-focus images, and no color corrections. The out-of-focus images are intended to show the effects of spherochromaitc aberration. I also compared the lenses at f/8 and f/11 and the difference between the lenses was similar.

The reference lens




The Novoflex




The differences in color rendition can be adjusted to a large degree in Photoshop, but in extreme cases the reference lens will deliver smoother gradation and saturation. The biggest difference IMHO is the spherochromatic abberation, which appears as color fringes in out-of-focus highlights as in the fourth photo. This is very common in long lenses that are not apochromatically corrected.

The reference lens is in no danger of being displaced in my toy box by the Novoflex but as a backup or for use in hazardous environments it will do quite well and at 1/25 the cost of the reference lens it's a keeper.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My adapter came yesterday, hooray. I have absolutley no experience shooting birds so I won`t embarass myself by posting too many of my initial shots, but the light was good yesterday and today so grabbed a quick few both days when the chance arose....





There`s some ca as outlined above but it seems to have come out easily enough in LR.

I need the following.. fingerless gloves, my cable release to arrive quicker and probably a new m42 adapter with a 400mm focal length chip to enable better image stabilisation on my Sony. Apart from that it looks like a fun lens and is probably capable of producing very good images in more veteran hands than mine.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here are a couple of photos from my first session with the T-Noflexar:





PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug they are very nice shots. I understand the T has triple lens as opposed to double of mine?

Does your Leica R Telyt 560mm 6.8 head fit on your Pigriff C pistol without any modification? That is one beautiful lens in your hands.


Not that I could probably afford one any time soon!


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Macca wrote:
Doug they are very nice shots. I understand the T has triple lens as opposed to double of mine?


Yup.

Macca wrote:
Does your Leica R Telyt 560mm 6.8 head fit on your Pigriff C pistol without any modification?


This is a scarce version of the 560mm f/6.8 that was made for the PIGRIFF-C. The optical unit is interchangeable with the version in the Leica sliding-focus mount but the tube and hood that fit the optical unit to the PIGRIFF-C was never available separately AFAIK.

Macca wrote:
That is one beautiful lens in your hands.


Thank you! The 560 has its quirks but overall I'm very pleased with it and I especially like it on the PIGRIFF-C. More pictures made with the 560 Novoflex/Telyt are at http://www.wildlightphoto.com/560n68.html


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice results on the bird images. Enjoy the lens...


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If the reference lens is the Leitz APO-Telyt-R 1:4/280mm (is it?) I'm not surprised the Noflexar doesn't match it.

Quote:
This is a scarce version of the 560mm f/6.8 that was made for the PIGRIFF-C. The optical unit is interchangeable with the version in the Leica sliding-focus mount but the tube and hood that fit the optical unit to the PIGRIFF-C was never available separately AFAIK.


The glass is identical in both versions as far as I can tell. Not necessarily interchangeable though - neither my sliding version nor my PiGriff mounted one unscrews from their aperture housings. I had another PiGriff one that did unscrew - not sure whether that was a Pigriff C or D version. Is the sliding version supposed to be able to be taken apart? That is one thing I prefer of my PiGriff - the length when taken apart is much easier to transport than the slider. This does come with a weight disadvantage though, 1825 g for the slider, 2450 g for the PiGriff.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
If the reference lens is the Leitz APO-Telyt-R 1:4/280mm (is it?) I'm not surprised the Noflexar doesn't match it.


280mm f/4 with 1.4x extender, = about 400mm f/5.6

dickb wrote:
The glass is identical in both versions as far as I can tell. Not necessarily interchangeable though - neither my sliding version nor my PiGriff mounted one unscrews from their aperture housings.


The optical cell unscrews from both the PIFRIFF-C version and the sliding version I used to use. Grab the front rim of the lens and twist, it should unscrew leaving the hood and everything else behind. My PIGRIFF-C version also unscrews from the aperture housing and I've heard (have not verified) that this will fit the aperture housing of the PIGRIFF-B.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wildlightphoto wrote:
dickb wrote:
If the reference lens is the Leitz APO-Telyt-R 1:4/280mm (is it?) I'm not surprised the Noflexar doesn't match it.

280mm f/4 with 1.4x extender, = about 400mm f/5.6


Yes, with extender of course. I wasn't suggesting the comparison wasn't valid because of focal length differences. Just saying I would be surprised if any triplet or indeed any affordable 400mm lens would be close to the famous and justifiably expensive Apo-Telyt.


wildlightphoto wrote:
dickb wrote:
The glass is identical in both versions as far as I can tell. Not necessarily interchangeable though - neither my sliding version nor my PiGriff mounted one unscrews from their aperture housings.


The optical cell unscrews from both the PIGRIFF-C version and the sliding version I used to use. Grab the front rim of the lens and twist, it should unscrew leaving the hood and everything else behind. My PIGRIFF-C version also unscrews from the aperture housing and I've heard (have not verified) that this will fit the aperture housing of the PIGRIFF-B.


Indeed, just substituting the optical cells would work. Just a word of caution that not all PiGriff versions are the same. The PiGriff version of mine that does unscrew from the aperture housing looks near identical to the one that doesn't.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
Yes, with extender of course. I wasn't suggesting the comparison wasn't valid because of focal length differences. Just saying I would be surprised if any triplet or indeed any affordable 400mm lens would be close to the famous and justifiably expensive Apo-Telyt.


I was surpsised and pleased that the T-Noflexar performs as well as it does.

dickb wrote:
Just a word of caution that not all PiGriff versions are the same.


Agreed! The PIGRIFF-B and PIGRIFF-C aperture units are not interchangeable, PIGRIFF-D is different altogether, and there is yet another version made by Novoflex for Leica that has a Leica-R only mount. The -B, -C and -D versions can use Novoflex's adapters to fit numerous 35mm SLR cameras. IMHO the -B version's utility is greatly enhanced with the BAL-U bellows at the rear which allows close focus. The -C, -D and probably Leica versions have a built-in variable-length extension tube that performs the same function as the -B's BAL-U.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There are also special PiGriff versions for Hasselblad, Rollei, Pentax and Mamiya IIRC. I like the built-in extension of the PiGriff-C a lot. I've also got a special factory modified version of the PiGriff-C where a rack-and-pinion focusser is added to this extension tube. This makes life a lot easier when using this lens on a tripod. It is out on loan at the moment so I can't provide a picture right now.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
I like the built-in extension of the PiGriff-C a lot. I've also got a special factory modified version of the PiGriff-C where a rack-and-pinion focusser is added to this extension tube. This makes life a lot easier when using this lens on a tripod. It is out on loan at the moment so I can't provide a picture right now.


Very cool!


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here are some pics of the factory modification:





It makes a big difference when using this lens on a tripod. I was trying to make a DIY solution more or less like this before I came across this one. Buying this one meant I now have three Leitz Telyt 560/6.8 lenses, slightly excessive even for my taste, so I'm selling one (the original Leitz R sliding lens) on eBay.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
It makes a big difference when using this lens on a tripod.


I bet it does! Was this recent? Do you know if they still offer this modification?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wildlightphoto wrote:
dickb wrote:
It makes a big difference when using this lens on a tripod.


I bet it does! Was this recent? Do you know if they still offer this modification?


I've bought it already modified, no clue how long ago it went back to Novoflex or whether they still do it. I haven't seen any other modified PiGriffe.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm wondering how that old Novoflex 400/5.6 optics would compare to an old Sigma Apo 400/5.6 lens?

Thomas


PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dickb wrote:
There are also special PiGriff versions for Hasselblad, Rollei, Pentax and Mamiya IIRC. I like the built-in extension of the PiGriff-C a lot. I've also got a special factory modified version of the PiGriff-C where a rack-and-pinion focusser is added to this extension tube. This makes life a lot easier when using this lens on a tripod. It is out on loan at the moment so I can't provide a picture right now.

Do you know if the Pigriff-C optical path is optimised for a plain filter present in the filter drawer or should it be empty of any glass when no filter effect is needed?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug

I have a Novoflex setup with 400 and 600 lenses. This is the PiGriff-C version. If I somehow managed to find a Leitz 560mm lens head do you think that it could be adapted onto the Novoflex system? I know that there were specifically adapted heads for sale at one time but I think that the chances of finding one of these would be rare.

I use my 3 element 400mm Novoflex lens all the time for garden birds and the results are very sharp. I cant post any samples for a few months as I am away from home at the moment.

Dave E


PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memento wrote:
I'm wondering how that old Novoflex 400/5.6 optics would compare to an old Sigma Apo 400/5.6 lens?

Thomas


Unfortunately, my two old Sigma Apo 400/5.6 lenses have a fogged up internal element, as so many of them do. So a reasonable comparison is only possible if /when I get around to dismantelling them.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Farside wrote:
Do you know if the Pigriff-C optical path is optimised for a plain filter present in the filter drawer or should it be empty of any glass when no filter effect is needed?


I don't know this for certain, but since none of the 4 PiGriffe I handled had a filter in the drawer my guess is no filter is calculated in the optical formula.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dave E wrote:
Doug

I have a Novoflex setup with 400 and 600 lenses. This is the PiGriff-C version. If I somehow managed to find a Leitz 560mm lens head do you think that it could be adapted onto the Novoflex system? I know that there were specifically adapted heads for sale at one time but I think that the chances of finding one of these would be rare.

I use my 3 element 400mm Novoflex lens all the time for garden birds and the results are very sharp. I cant post any samples for a few months as I am away from home at the moment.

Dave E


I'm not Doug but I can answer this. The 560/6.8 Leica R sliding lens contains exactly the same lens elements as the 560/6.8 Leitz lens head for Novoflex. Comparing the two lenses I can see the tube into which these elements are screwed are the same diameter but not the same length. You can't unscrew the front tube of the Leica slider and mount it on the Novoflex Blendenkoerper (aperture housing). You'd need to manufacture a tube with the correct length, diameter and threads.

My guess is though that if you find a Leitz 560mm 6.8 lens head it will be the one for the Novoflex system. As I'm writing this I remember there is also a lens head for the Visoflex system - I have no information on that one though.

If you're really eager to get your hands on a Leitz 560/6.8 for Novoflex PiGriff-C I might consider parting with my penultimate specimen - PM me.
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2