Why use MF lenses other than Pentax or Nikon?

NewStuff · Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 847 Location: Wales, UK

A year ago, You could have pried my 400D+Split Prism screen out of my cold dead hands. Not a chance I was going to use a "toy" camera. Then I tried an NEX-3. Bear in mind that, as a company, I really don't like Sony much recently. I was a little curious about everyone raving about them for use with MF Glass, and when a friend bought an NEX-3, I borrowed it for a few hours.

I sold the 400D, and all the AF glass with it. The only AF glass in my house now are 2 Nikon lenses for my daughters Nikon F301 SLR. Bear in mind that I still own Canon's EOS D60 and an EOS 1D.

Really, they are that good. I'll take some action shots on a long tele lens (Tair 3-pHs) if we get light worth a damn, probably birds, and if I get time, some military jets, (though with my work as it is, that's unlikely). I find that using it much like a Bronica works well, at waist level, far more stable, the neck strap stabilises it to a nice degree. As for loss of stop-down metering, well, I'm puzzled. If there is enough light to expose the shot properly, Focus peaking works, so I tend to focus at the aperture I want to use.

Please, question if You wish (I did), but don't disparage until You have tried it. I'm not a Canon/Nikon/Pentax/whatever fan-boy, typical of your average camera club. I like something that works, regardless of who made it. The NEX system not only works for MF glass, but works very well indeed. Should the rumoured Full-frame model show up, then I will be buying it when the price comes down to a sane level.

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

Canon have the eos-m system.

A quick point though, MF lenses members don't generally shoot legacy glass because it is easy, understand that and you will hopefully understand why we don't care about functions like auto aperture Wink

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

Aanything · Expire: 2014-05-30

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

Flick the lens aperture open, focus, close the lens to required aperture then with the NEX set to 'shutter priority' flick through the speeds until it looks about right on the screen. If the speed is ok for handholding, then I shoot, or get the monopod or tripod out.
The NEX is a different way of doing things to a DSLR, which actually suits manual lenses better. I much prefer using MF lenses on my nex now rather than my Pentax K10, which is good, but not as versatile as the NEX with old lenses.
And when I use big long heavy lenses again I find that it's a different thing to the DSLR. With the NEX and a big lens the camera is an addition to the lens and not the other, traditional, way around. Hold the lens and treat the NEX as a viewfinder on the back of it, forget the DSLR way of having a big joined up unit.

The NEX is different, make no mistake about that. But if you embrace that difference using old lenses becomes a joy, and the versatility makes you wonder just why you need a mirror and all that other stuff ?

seftonearl · Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Hastings New Zealand

I use a nx200,
The best of its kit lens is a small 20 to 50mm zoom which is great to autofocus people / candids. In its
locked state it fits on the camera in my pants pocket.
A lcd viewfinder with 3x is good to keep the sun out of my led monitor and also allowes me to hold
the lens steady against the face. No mirror to slap, very sharp low shutter speed handheld shots.
If useing my 70-300 tele and and a 1.5 convertor and sometimes for for macro work a
button press gives a extra 5x enlargement to manual focus on a birds eye for example.
This is not ideal, autofocus for eg birds in flight , a big advantage.
I also use 3 nikon e series primes,35mm 50mm 100mm.
All this fits in a very small cycle bag which clips over the handle bars.
I set the apture I require and the led ramps up the brightness, no need to focus wide open.
I carried a bag full of pro gear for 37 yrs, never again ,( bad back).
Adaptors mean I can use all my old film lens. I have Sigma 600mm mirror lens in pk mount, a Canon 1.1.2 58mm Fl,
Pentax, Minolta, and mainly Nikon.
A extra wide, Tokina 17mm? and 300mm prime maybe a Tamron sp 300 5.6mm or a Nikon 300mm 4.5 ed?
will round off the kit if I can find them for a good price. I think the cheep zoom is a little soft and being a/f
is lacking the longer smother manual focus touch.Any advice welcome,Ill leave the tripod behind if I can ,
down low on a small bean bag being best for birds with a big lens.
The samsung Nx 200 is better set out and easy to use with a great sensor, other mirrorles cameras I looked at did not feel right to me, to many fiddly small controls in not enough space. I do like the thing.
I have enjoyed this forum eg the reviews, however I dont post much, any way I wish you all
a very Happy Christmas and new year.

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

I'd like to see some nx200 samples, that 20mp Samsung sensor intrigues me (I have the NX100) and haven't actually seen any real-world sample images from the NX200.

ManualFocus-G · Expire: 2014-11-24

I'm presuming the NX1000 and NX200 share the same sensor. Someone compared the NX1000 to the EOS 7D here:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=450216

Very similar results.

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

clockwork247 · Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 79

I'm not sure what's missing.

The pentax A you can adjust the aperture via the camera's scroll wheels, but that's pretty much it, it's more convenient, yes, but the lens are also way more expensive.

What I normally do, is I use shutter speed mode, the aperture is control by the len's ring, I actually set the shutter to the rule 1/FL... then i just bang it out, let the camera control the ISO. it works well, in certain situation where i need a lower ISO i just bump the shutter speed up slightly... that's easy enough...

with Focus peaking and and EVF, manual shooting is much easier than a OVF on regular DSLR....

Then I was reading on DIY photography, and they talked about the string monopod, I'm gonna go and try that, sounds like a good compliment for the NEX that doesn't have IBIS, now i can even shoot at slower shutter speed lol.

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974

iangreenhalgh1 · Expire: 2014-01-07

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

That's a strange reaction to what I thought was a very polite correction - a lot more polite than your "Er, no" comment to Graham. All you had to do was say sorry you were wrong. There's something in your psyche I can't fathom.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

Trouble with Nex et alia with long lenses is a matter of the steadiness of the image one is using to frame and focus.
By its nature a long lens will magnify all shaking and unsteadiness, but this can be controlled with good technique.
I have learned to shoot rifles off-hand and all standard positions, so in part doing this with a telephoto is not that different. The techniques are not the same in detail but they also come naturally with practice. Breath control works in both sorts of shooting.

The problem with mirrorless is that they lack a steady rest point that on the SLR/DSLR would be my forehead and face. The hands and arms add two more points to hold particularly if the elbows are held close to the chest. Holding the thing, even if one is mostly really holding the lens, while resting just on extended arms leads to a very unsteady image with a long lens, even if not zoomed - and I did try a Nex5 and my own K-x live view quite a bit. The other problem is that the the image on the screen is very magnified even if not zoomed, and also magnifies all motion. The combination I find is just unworkable, I cannot focus such an unsteady image.

This is made worse by old age. The display has no diopter adjustment. To see the image I have to hold it almost at arms length. Needless to say this makes the whole thing even more unsteady.

One of course could use whatever other resting points are available, railings rocks, trees, etc., but they are only an occasional thing. A tripod or maybe a monopod are nowhere near as portable. They are difficult or impossible to use in conditions like a crowd, and very inconvenient for unplanned situations. They are nearly impossible for street photography for instance. A DSLR can hang from my shoulder no matter the length of a lens, disturbing nothing, both hands free, and is instantly available to use after climbing a tree or squatting on the ground. You can change the point of view in an instant. With a monopod its sort of like having a walking stick with a very heavy knob, or carry the thing against a shoulder like a rifle or a flagpole. Both are very inconvenient and look very odd. And if you want to change the position from which you are shooting, the length needs to be adjusted, or the thing needs to be removed. etc.

I'm saying this as a guy who at least sometimes carries an MF or LF camera around on a tripod, walking stick or shoulder arms style. If you need one you need one.

Zooming the viewfinder image is very nice to ensure accurate focus, if it is steady, but it increases motion and the loss of steadiness makes it unusable for me.

And then there is the sun and glare. An optical viewfinder is shaded - and sometimes this is not enough, hence the market for eyecups. The display on the other hand is very often not visible in outdoor conditions. I know that there are shades, etc. that can be added. I tried one. But these are not really part of the camera, easily fall off, and can't be used as a bearing surface.

The Pentax A lenses, most importantly, support AV and other auto-exposure modes on Pentax DSLR's, while also automatically stopping down the lens. This is the critical difference between them and the earlier K-mount lenses. Those will only stop down (at all) in M mode. You can use the green button to automatically meter and set speeds but it is nowhere near the dynamic response in my favorite AV mode, and I also think not really as accurate. When I use M mode I meter manually by taking test shots.

fermy · Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Posts: 1974

Well, I don't use tripods, monopods, viewfinders or shades. Unfortunately or (maybe fortunately?) E-PL1 has a pretty awful screen that washes out in sunlight, I've learned to focus on it even in sunlight, so everything else is easy now. Focusing on NEX-5 LCD is piece of cake in any conditions ( hint: try "Sunny weather" LCD brightness setting). Really I don't think OVF is a preferable way to focus even in the sun, magnification and peaking more than make up for that and modern LCDs are very good.

As for mirrorless lacking a rest point, get EVF and you've got it. Really for MF EVF walks over OVF as 1/60s or 1/100s of delay due to refresh rate is really nothing for MF.

The most difficult thing for sure is dealing with image jumping up and down. But don't you have the same issue with (D)SLR? Lenses that are physically short (e.g. 10-15cm long) can still be focused without too much jumping, with longer lenses I didn't have much success, thankfully there is Sniper that solves the problem in a different way.

luisalegria · Expire: 2018-01-18

No, I have no problem with motion on an OVF, even with 400mm.
The key is practice and technique.
Of course the captured image may degrade if the shutter speed is not high enough, etc.

Lloydy · Expire: 2022-01-01

I love my monopod and rarely leave home without it, especially if I have a camera with me. Wink

But my monopod is by pure chance perfect for my use. I bought it at the camera fair for £5, it has no manufactureres name on it and I have never seen another one the same. If I do I shall buy it for when this one wears out or gets lost.

That's the smallest Gitzo ballhead they make, and despite it's tiny size will hold a K10 and a Tair300 without slipping. It's unbelievably rigid. The quick release is a Manfrotto one, and again very good. I've never had anything fall out or release unexpectadly. The monopod is high enough to see a DSLR viewfinder comfortably.

I made a leather holster to hold it, and that's where the design of this particular twist release monopod is so good, there are no big clamps or twist grips to stop it going through the hole in the holster, I put a couple of rubber O rings on the shaft so it doesn't hang right down and knock on my leg as I walk. I really don't know its there.

That's the holster, an old wide leather belt and a craft knife was all I needed.

The monopod is a very under rated bit of kit, this has saved me many pictures and its usefulness far outweighs the small price of carrying it about. I use the monopod and then rest the camera gently against a tree, building or a fence. I've used a bit of forked stick to act as another leg before now. And on one occasion I used it to threaten a scum bag who thought I should give him my camera. I kept the camera, it's invaluable. Cool

Attila · Expire: 2025-11-18

Orio · Expire: 2012-12-04

A DSLR with pentaprism viewfinder feels "organic" to me as photographer in a way that neither a digital viewfinder nor an LCD screen can (and I have tried both).
This is negligible in some genres (landscape or still life), absolutely vital in other genres (portraits, fashion).
When photographing a landscape I often use liveview with my DSLR because it lets me focus quietly with ease. So for this purpose a pentaprism viewfinder is not needed for me.
But when I photograph a model, I need to feel an organic, immediate contact with what I see. Every little focus shift or change of position is felt immediately in the clarity of the pentaprism viewfinder vision. Using an LCD creates a deadly "distance". And the digital viewfinder feels "cold" because you are watching a video, which is also (very shortly) delayed, you are not seeing a live image as with a pentaprism viewfinder.
In conclusion, a lot depends on what and how you photograph. I don't think it can be said that one or the other are "absolutely" better or worse.

P.S. another advantage of DSLR is that -so far- they are the only ones who allow for full frame format.

woodrim · Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston

woodrim · Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston

I'll chime in here because I had some issues with the NEX before and after purchasing it. I was concerned it would be too small, and it was. Still is, but I've solved the problem, at least for me. Luis, you may be interested in this solution as it addresses some of your concerns. My first pictures out of the NEX - and I only use MF lenses - were hit and miss. Using the rear LCD (I don't have an EVF), especially with a telephoto lens, was nearly impossible for me to both see clearly and hold still. Then pushing down the shutter release button would cause more shake. On top of all that, I would frequently put the camera in movie mode from adjusting my grip. It was obvious to me I had to solve three problems; screen in bright sunlight, shake, and seeing it clearly (my eyes were the problem). I immediately bought one of those $20 hoods with +2.5 diopter. That almost solved everything, and did solve the sunlight problem and partially solved the shake issue by providing a third point for bracing - my head. But I would still get some shake due to difficulty holding the little camera and pressing the shutter release would also still cause some movement. I would still put it in video more too with my fat thumb. The next step I was on my own. I made a handle for my right hand so I could get a grown-up grip on the camera (handle). I made it to connect at an angle that would put my index finger at the front where the shutter button is, and allow my thumb to brace the rear and select the option buttons. Now the movie button was safely out of way and I could brace all very well and not cause shake from the shutter. I now have no difficulty up to 200mm, which is the longest I have tried. The focus peaking for me is only a way of telling me I'm getting close, but the focus zoom feature is a wonderful tool for MF. I do focus in stopped down mode and the viewfinder (LCD inside the hood) adjusts brightness and the focus zoom allows pinpoint focus. In fact, I never fully realized how shallow the exact point of focus was, even stopped down. Sure, there is depth of field, but only one small point is really dead on. Now about 95% of my photos are spot on in focus.

philslizzy · Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4745 Location: Cheshire, England

This has been an interesting discussion. I am considering getting a NEX as this has been recommended by several members. Dave (Lloydy) makes a good point about using this type of camera. I have absorbed all your comments and intend to purchase one in the new year. I must sell a few things first though!

Woodrim, please don't read this a criticism, this is the first thing that popped into my mind when i saw your photos.

Your set up is great but I think with all that paraphernalia attached to your camera, you could be using a DSLR. The point of (as I understand it) these mirrorless cameras is size and convenience. Having said that however... I expect I'd be buying a hood and making some sort of bracket. It's what I do!!

Oh. Lloydy that monopod holder is fantastic. You are an inspiration. I'm gonna make one tomorrow!!

Y'know this is an ace forum!!