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Vivitar Series 1 70-210/3.5 (ver.1 - Kiron)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought one of these early Kiron S1's a long time ago, dirt cheap with a foggy front element but otherwise perfect condition. It turned out to be second element in that was the worst affected by what appeared to be condensation residue, so I left it alone and used the later S1 2.8 / 4 by Komine, which is smaller and lighter and a great lens. But today it rained most of the day so I got bored and got the second element out, which means separating the focus helicoid, and the bloody glue holding bits of it together!
I'm glad I did it, the lens cleaned off nicely and with it the contrast returned. It's a great lens. Cool

ISO 500, f5.6 Hand held, cropped. No sharpening, Auto levels. Macro setting


ISO 500, f5.6 Hand held, cropped. No sharpening, Auto levels. Macro setting


Straight out of the camera, the furnace is nearly 1/2 mile away.


No sharpening, but I have adjusted the colours / levels a bit. The reds were bleeding together.


Untouched, the pylons are 1 1/2 miles away and it was very misty after heavy rain


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Beautiful shots Lloydy! Glad you gave the Kiron a chance, it really deserved it! I have the Tokina and Cosina v4 as well. The Tokina resolves like you would expect, less macro magnification. I wanted to love the Cosina, it is brand new and I always root for the underdog, but it really is pretty bad. I've been on the hunt for a Komine, I know it's the best one, haven't pulled the trigger yet...


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
According to this link ver 2 and ver 3 of the series 1 are sharper http://www.robertstech.com/vivitar.htm . Well I picked up recently the Tokina ver 2 and first results on film is:- it's a nothing special lens and the macro (close up) is crap. Well I paid £4 at a bootsale for it so it could have been abused anyway I'll try again with some fresh film as I'd like to use this lens as it's OM mount.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had the Tokina v2, mint condition, good lens but nothing special, I have had several similar zooms that were much better, the Tokina AT-X 4/80-200 being one of them.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I had the Tokina v2, mint condition, good lens but nothing special, I have had several similar zooms that were much better, the Tokina AT-X 4/80-200 being one of them.


....and an interesting shootout would be:- series 1 ver Tamron, I have three in the range 70-210 and all are good and also for close up.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just got the Tamron 80-200 2.8 SP and it's a pretty impressive lens. I think I would use it over my Series 1s if made to choose.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Of the three most desirable versions the Kiron version of this lens seems to be the most common - and easiest to find in good condition.
The Tokina version is less common in my experience and the Komine version is the hardest to find.
The Cosina and Kobori versions turn up from time to time but are generally not as sought after as the other three.
I have the Kiron version in Nikon and PK mounts, and was once on the hunt for the fabled Komine.
As I have used the Kirons more and more I am happy to let the Komine search fade - as the results from the Kirons are just so good.
I have often reflected that most of us do not use the lenses that we have to their fullest potential.
Getting the most out of the lenses we own should be an ambition for all of us.
OH


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:

....and an interesting shootout would be:- series 1 ver Tamron, I have three in the range 70-210 and all are good and also for close up.


Oldhand wrote:
Of the three most desirable versions the Kiron version of this lens seems to be the most common - and easiest to find in good condition.
The Tokina version is less common in my experience and the Komine version is the hardest to find.

I have the Kiron version in Nikon and PK mounts, and was once on the hunt for the fabled Komine.
As I have used the Kirons more and more I am happy to let the Komine search fade - as the results from the Kirons are just so good.
I have often reflected that most of us do not use the lenses that we have to their fullest potential.
Getting the most out of the lenses we own should be an ambition for all of us.
OH


Welllllll......You reminded me that I have both the Kiron AND the Komine version of this lens...ANNNNNDDDDD.....

....You also reminded me that I have the 70-210 TAMRON F3.8-4 46A too! ....Adaptall2 not the SP version...
....It has the K/R Konica mount on it and so completely forgot about it since I couldn't mount it on the Canon UNTIL I reminded myself that the sp90 I got last month HAS the Nikon mount....a quick switch and the Tamron is now on the XSI...

I've taken the Komine out but my 1st impression was that the Kiron was easier to focus...but I've not taken it out enough to convince myself which I should keep...I'm tryyyyyyyyying NOT to be hoarder, but having forgotten all about the Tamron says otherwise.

...I will have to decide SOMEday which to keep...but in the meanwhile I may just take all three out for that shootout....

Should be fun....


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:

I have often reflected that most of us do not use the lenses that we have to their fullest potential.
Getting the most out of the lenses we own should be an ambition for all of us.
OH


Yes true if you only have one lens but if you have other lenses that immediately give better overall results...then why bother.
My ambition as I accumulate lenses is:- keep the best and sell the rest Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi guys.

I had:
Vivitar S1 70-210/3.5 - Kiron
Vivitar S1 70-210/3.5 - Tokina
Vivitar 75-205/3.8
Tamron 70-210/3.8-4 - 46A
Tamron 80-210/3.8-4 - 103A
Pentax-M 80-200/4
Kiron 80-200/4
Kiron 70-150/4

Although I didn't compare all of them next to each other, I did compare all of them to Pentax-M 80-200/4 which lens I had for longest period of time.
My conclusion:
Vivitar S1 70-210/3.5 - Kiron was absolutely the best: Sharpest at 70 and at 210, the highest contrast, the most usable macro mode.
Vivitar S1 70-210.3.5 - Tokina probably my version was a little damage, although clean as it was sharp and contrasty at 70mm, but absolutely useless above 130mm
Vivitar 75-205/3.8 pretty good lens, but I don't think it's better than Tamron's 46A, 103A. Vivitar S1 was significantly better. For me at least, this lens was nothing special.
Tamron 70-210/3.8-4 - 46A this one was better then Tamron 103A although more plasticky. It's quite sharp and decent lens, but results were crushed with Vivitar S1 - Kiron. To be honest I like it very much, but I didn't find reason to leave it with me Wink.
Tamron 80-210/3.8-4 - 103A like above, I love Tamron lenses, but those two didn't hold against my copy of Viv S1 - Kiron. I had two copies of 46A and two of 103A and each copy in pristine condition so samples variation could be crossed out.
Pentax-M 80-200/4 one of the most underrated lenses in my opinion. Great build quality and was really sharp and very contrasty up to ~180mm, to be sharp at long end it needed to be closed to 5.6-8. However it also produced a lot of CA wideopen and even at f/5.6
Kiron 80-200/4 also one of the most underrated lenses. It was better than Pentax-M 80-200/4, that's for sure. Sharper at long end, at the short end was really good, like Pentax-M very cotrasty and sharp. CA was very well controlled, there was a little wide open, but closing it just half stop almost completely removed it. I didn't compare this copy to Vivitar S1 Kiron, but to tell you how good it was I could tell I sold it to very good friend of mine.
Kiron 70-150/4 this is absolute stunner. It's very sharp, with great contrast and perfectly usable wide-open. It's very compact, not to say small, and for me is great alternative for Vivitar S1 - Kiron when I want to travel light. I know it's 60mm shorter than Vivitar, but still, great little lens for similar uses with one third of size Wink.

Cheers
Mateusz


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting as no one has said they have a crappy Kiron ver, yet three members are not impressed by the Tokina ver.....h'mm could it be Tokina was a bit sloppy in manufacturing the zoom to the design specification from America or just a cheaper ver of the Kiron model Question Also agree with you about the Kiron 80-200 f4 non zoom lock ver it's my favourite zoom.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well.....I took the Tamron 70-210 out....not too bad @ F8 on Canon XSI
...not as nice as the Kiron, not a 100% cropper, but still, can get nice images if not cropping too severely...

Mom and pop sandhill crane checking out their fledgling on perhaps its first day of flights and landings....

Full frame and crop...not 100%...






PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The range of about 70-210 is useful for film cameras and with more people buying FF digital cameras I would assume that they would be used more, so it would be interesting to see the pecking order for the best MF zooms and ones to avoid.
For me (as a film user) I've accumulated many zooms in this range from Canon to Ensinor but they are all on different camera mounts...can you see the problem doing a group test Sad Well anyone interested in using film cameras, but don't want to use one roll of film in that camera, then you can take say 6 shots in one camera, note the frame number, rewind and put the film in another camera and wind on to the same frame number and add say four for the film leader.
....pissed off after say 6 shots then put the film in the fridge and your latent images will last for years Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Interesting as no one has said they have a crappy Kiron ver,

I just got one for almost nothing. It's in a pretty well used state (abused even). I haven't had time to do a proper test, but I think it's quite crappy. Smile From a quick check I'd say it's pretty good at short distances and excellent when stopped down a bit, but very bad at long distances. Difficult to reach infinity focus (because of mechanical problems, the action is far from smooth) and when you do, it glows and isn't particularly sharp at any aperture. I'll use it for close-up and almost macro shots. And on film. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
The range of about 70-210 is useful for film cameras and with more people buying FF digital cameras I would assume that they would be used more, so it would be interesting to see the pecking order for the best MF zooms and ones to avoid.
For me (as a film user) I've accumulated many zooms in this range from Canon to Ensinor but they are all on different camera mounts...can you see the problem doing a group test Sad


I didn't ever put a zoom on a film camera (Nikon)...didn't get a zoom until I got a dSLR and was/still am quite pleased with the results....didn't get a proper manual focus zoom until the Vivitar Series1/Kiron 70-210 and coincidentally a month later its 28-90/2.8-3.5 sibling...and both shocked me how well they're made as well as their results...

Being in Nikon mounts I can put them all on one dSLR and run a test...some on a tripod and some hand held to include the biggest variable...me.


miran wrote:
Quote:
Interesting as no one has said they have a crappy Kiron ver,

I just got one for almost nothing. It's in a pretty well used state (abused even). I haven't had time to do a proper test, but I think it's quite crappy. Smile From a quick check I'd say it's pretty good at short distances and excellent when stopped down a bit, but very bad at long distances. Difficult to reach infinity focus (because of mechanical problems, the action is far from smooth) and when you do, it glows and isn't particularly sharp at any aperture. I'll use it for close-up and almost macro shots. And on film. Smile


That's crappy...too bad it's in bad shape..could be why the results are poor...the hawk shots (p. 2) taken shooting up towards the sky didn't vail or flare at all...here the full frame of that near 100% crop, @ 210/F5.6 I believe...this is the kind of test the lenses need to be put to....



PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've also had some kirons and a couple of VS1 and have a proliferating adaptall collection..

I liked all the kirons: 80-200 f4, 70-210 f4.5 (this was PKA mount), 70-210mm f4 (the well known "zoomlock"), for me there are strong similarities in the rendering and colours. But I sold the first two when I acquired the zoomlock... in fact I have two, a pristine one in PK, and a PKA one in the project box with a slipping focus.

I am going to commit slight sacrilege now by remarking that I sold my Komine VS1 in PKA mount. It just didn't impress me at wide apertures.... and I needed the £££ having just splurged on a tamron 200-500mm.

Lasy year I spent an hour one afternoon trying to compare the zoomlock (top)with the tamron 46A on my lumix G1 (so 400mm equivalent with the crop factor. RAW, similar/same levels of pp in faststone.





Most noticable difference is the cleaner brighter colours of the Kiron. Resolution/contrast pretty similar, if the kiron had an edge it's only slight.

But overall, if its "top classic 70-210 stakes" I think my money is on my 19AH.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mfkita wrote:

I didn't ever put a zoom on a film camera (Nikon)...didn't get a zoom until I got a dSLR and was/still am quite pleased with the results....didn't get a proper manual focus zoom until the Vivitar Series1/Kiron 70-210 and coincidentally a month later its 28-90/2.8-3.5 sibling...and both shocked me how well they're made as well as their results...


Well when I first bought a decent camera i.e. Pentax S3 in 1960 I don't think there were any decent zooms around, and to cut a long story short.... I only started using zooms on a film camera 50 years later Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
The range of about 70-210 is useful for film cameras and with more people buying FF digital cameras I would assume that they would be used more, so it would be interesting to see the pecking order for the best MF zooms and ones to avoid.
For me (as a film user) I've accumulated many zooms in this range from Canon to Ensinor but they are all on different camera mounts...can you see the problem doing a group test Sad Well anyone interested in using film cameras, but don't want to use one roll of film in that camera, then you can take say 6 shots in one camera, note the frame number, rewind and put the film in another camera and wind on to the same frame number and add say four for the film leader.
....pissed off after say 6 shots then put the film in the fridge and your latent images will last for years Laughing


Waste of time using C41 film, it doesn't have sufficient resolution or colour fidelity. Resolution testing with film is done with microfilm such as Agfa Copex.

It would be far better to use a high density FF sensor because if the lens will perform well there, it will be more than good enough for shooting film.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
The range of about 70-210 is useful for film cameras and with more people buying FF digital cameras I would assume that they would be used more, so it would be interesting to see the pecking order for the best MF zooms and ones to avoid.
For me (as a film user) I've accumulated many zooms in this range from Canon to Ensinor but they are all on different camera mounts...can you see the problem doing a group test Sad Well anyone interested in using film cameras, but don't want to use one roll of film in that camera, then you can take say 6 shots in one camera, note the frame number, rewind and put the film in another camera and wind on to the same frame number and add say four for the film leader.
....pissed off after say 6 shots then put the film in the fridge and your latent images will last for years Laughing


Waste of time using C41 film, it doesn't have sufficient resolution or colour fidelity. Resolution testing with film is done with microfilm such as Agfa Copex.

It would be far better to use a high density FF sensor because if the lens will perform well there, it will be more than good enough for shooting film.


Indeed digital is the way to go for testing resolution but I don't have something like a A7R Wink...using Agfa Copex and a microscope sounds boring. Anyway IMO it's best to test lenses over time and find some lenses just seem to stand out overall...mind you the rate I use film, it sometimes takes years with the combo of cameras and lenses I have Shocked


PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Kiron and the Komine variants, fun and versatile lenses imho

I wanted to get a nice shot of the "Honey" moon Friday night with mine, but missed it.
Ended up going out last night and getting a quickie while I could.



Vivitar/Komine Series 1 70-210mm w/ Vivitar 2x Macro Teleconvertor
It was hazy so had to do some PP to get it half way decent.

Av


PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here are some test shots with my beat up copy of this lens. At close focus and stopped down a bit it's very nice, at longer distances photos need a bit of massaging, but it's still usually possible to get something decent.

1.


2.


3.


4.


5.


6.


7.


8.


9.


10.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The mighty Vivitar/Kiron does it again.
Congratulations on these images - they are wonderful.
We keep hearing that the Komine version is the best of the Vivitar 70-210's - and yet it is the Kiron that is posting excellent image after excellent image.
Thank you for sharing these.
OH


PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
The mighty Vivitar/Kiron does it again.
Congratulations on these images - they are wonderful.
We keep hearing that the Komine version is the best of the Vivitar 70-210's - and yet it is the Kiron that is posting excellent image after excellent image.
Thank you for sharing these.
OH


What he said Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kiron's lens glory is not restricted to digital only Wink. On film, this lens shines as well and to be honest 70-210mm seems more useful on fullframe than on APS-C.

#1 Agfa Vista Plus 200 - 210mm f/5.6


#2 Agfa Vista Plus 200 - 70mm f/9


#3 Agfa Vista Plus 200 - 180mm f/8


Mateusz


PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
#2 is a very cool monument. What city is that in? I just got a copy of the Komine version. Taking test shots yesterday I found it performs very well and definitely gives you some nice rendering. I have two copies of the Kiron though, and I can't say the Komine is better. Different, but not better. The Kiron must have caused quite a stir in the 70s. It's such a masterful design.
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