Using Super Teles MF: How easy or hard it is?

[yalcinaydin]

Hi, with Canon 400D (Rebel Xti) my longest tele is a Canon EF 28-135 IS USM f.3.5-5.6 and sometimes I use it as manual focus at concert shooting. I've won a Mitsuki 200mm f:3.3, 2 hours ago for 4.3 pound (roughly 9$) I'm curious about its performance.

I wonder if I buy a 400-500mm how easy it would be to use it as MF. I'm not a bird people, I want to use it for photographing wind surfers, yes fast subjects but back in 80's people were shooting with these MF lenses so it wouldn't be impossible Prefocusing would be a solution I guess which I use while shooting concert with MF.

[Rob Leslie]

Using lenses over 300mm on crop DSLR AF or MF isn't easy.
I own 3 decent 400mm lenses the Sigma 400 APO the Tokina and my fantastic Fujinon.
I always prefer to use 300mm.
When doing wildlife focus must be spot on and the limited DOF of 400mm + makes this difficult. then there is the size and weight, even when given good support one can get shake.
I don't see why you would need 400 to photograph surfers and would suggest spending the money on a good 70-300mm zoom or the Tamron SP 60-300mm.
For real distance stuff I still prefer my Tamron SP 500 mirror lens to the option of humping a 400mm lens about.

Best line up which won't break the bank
A Tamron SP f5.6 300mm
A Tamron SP f3.8/5.4 60-300 zoom
A Tamrom SP f8 500mm

I should add. Expect to pay over £100 for a Sigma 400mm or the better Tokina 400mm and I would value my f4.5 400mm Fujinon at around £400+

Just a very personal opinion but I would have thought the best 'Surfer' shots would be the characters taking part and the before and after action rather than the repeatative wave action shots. I would want a good 28mm on the camera.
Not going to give all the secrets away but for the real action shots put the DSLR away and get out there with them with a nice little waterproof camera.

[yalcinaydin]

You're totally right about "nice little waterproof camera." idea but it means more to spend as they are not that very cheap. Indeed I'm thinking of getting a Takumar SMC 500mm f:4.5, I won't give more than 400$ but I think the price will be much more than that. Does using a 2X tele and make 200mm f:3.3 a 400mm f:6.6 sacrifes a lot of picture quality? By the way the windsurf is not of Acrobatic type just speed race, I have a friend racing in championships.

Indeed I'm planning to invest into light and make a small studio at home so I prefer more fast primes like a 85mm f:1.8-2.0, a 50mm f:1.4 (I like my EF 50mm f:1.8 II) and a 135mm CJZ f:3.5 and 135mm f:2.5 just for concert shooting. I don't know much about wide lenses but a 35mm f:2.8 Mamiya/Sekor also be bouht which means a lot lenses for the price of a 500mm f:4.5. I'm confused now

[Abbazz]

[Athiril]

hand holding long focal lengths on mf and crop, is an aquired taste and skill.

you get used to it.

i had a rubbish kenko 420-800mm f/8.3-16 on my 30D for shits and giggles.

I managed to hold it hand held steady enough to keep subjects framed such as birds and focus.

Also moon hand held focus.

Quite possible really.

Of course pointless other than for fun and the wow factor of super telephoto if you have a poor lens.

200mm is rather short, even on crop, you should have no trouble with it after a few days.

[Rob Leslie]

You have so much going on there, I’m confused as well!
A waterproof expensive? I have a nice Fuji HD which I sure would only fetch £10-20 on Ebay. Waterproof to 5mtrs, shockproof and a great f2.8 38mm Fuji lens.
I have also seen many great photos done on waterproof disposables.
I think a lot us get bogged down in the ‘Best equipment’ myth and forget that the best piece of equipment is the actual photographer. Nobody complains loudly if a great picture is slightly soft or can only make a 7 x 5 print. If need be I would be happy to use film for the few times I had to get wet.

Forget the Takumar f4.5 500mm, face facts you will never use it. Do you even have a tripod and head good enough to support it, at least £200-300 worth?
I think Abbazz explains it well. Though I must admit I tried a Tamrom f2.8 300mm lens for a week and also found that a real handful. I missed many shots due to camera shake even though the heavy lens was on a solid monopod and had an extra couple of stops for a faster shutter speed than my usual Tam SP f5.6 300mm.
Back to the disposable opinion. A well taken image from one is going to beat a shaky, slightly out of focus, limited DOF, compressed perspective shot with a 500mm
I now see your interest in Concerts.
Of topic for this group but have you considered the Canon f2.8 70-210mm the older non IS version can be a good buy and would be a good lens for concerts and surfers?

Using anything but a lens matched tele converter is a waste of time and money. I have wasted my own money on the Tamron SP X2 the Teleplus 7 and many others over the years. They aren’t even heavy enough to make good paper weights!

Wide lens? A 35mm isn’t wide on your 1.6 crop Canon?
Best buy for wide is a Zenitar 16mm. A bit of fish distortion that can be removed if you wish or often left for good effect. Otherwise you are going to have to look at some new wide zooms like the Tamron, Tokina and Sigma ones.
Be careful of the Sigma 10-20mm. I had two copies and returned both because of decentred sharpness. I tried a third in the shop and that was the same they may have been all the same batch? I do have a friend who has a good one but it seems a lot of people have a few problems finding that elusive good one. I have given up for a while and decided I am happy with my Peleng and Zenitar.
I'm sure that lot has now confused you even more!

[yalcinaydin]

Thanks for the great infos
I know exactly what I should and shouldn't buy in the Canon EF AF side but the price of the lenses keeps me down and a few days ago I've discovered MF M42 and amazed with the image quality of this old babies. I've asked 200mm f:3.3 Mitsuki to an owner in flickr who hasn't it now and he said that it was a nice lens. I've bought the EOS-M42 AF assist adaptor a few hours ago via ebay (from 'roxsen' with a macro extension tube set which I have no experience yet) and I will do a test when I got them both.

I'm not going to concerts much as I did in the past (when ISO1600, f:1.8, 1/10 still isn't enough then this type of shooting is a real pain in the ***) so shooting concert is not my primary goal at the moment, I'm switching to conceptual portrait (close to full body shots, chroma key etc.) so indeed I don't need a tele more than 100 generally. I can buy a Sigma 70-300 APO Macro 1:2 for outdoor shootings like windsurf where AF will help much.

I need MF equivalents of Canon EF 100mm f:2, Canon EF 50mm f.1.4 and a wide angle for general and indoor use (indoor shootings will be done with 3 flash light setup so I don't need a fast lens in the wide side, except concerts of course ).

In my this short M42 background I come to these findings:
- 135mm: CZJ Sonnar 3.5/135 or Pentacon 135mm f2.8 MC Auto
- 85mm: Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 or Super Takumar f1:1.9 85mm (I haven't seen the f:1.8 version in ebay yet)
- 50mm: Asahi Pentax Super Takumar M42 50mm f1.4
- 35mm: MC MIR-24M 2/35mm Auto

For fish eye I have found these but I don't know which one is better:
- Zenitar M42 16mm Fisheye F2.8
- Takumar SMC 17mm f4 Fish Eye (I've seen very nice samples of this lens)
- MIR 3.5 FISHEYE

As super tele I will look for a Tair-3 300mm F4.5 with a good price and a mirror lens in the future.

And for the last my priorities are like these, I'll form a M42 monthly budget :
(1)85mm (2)35mm (3)135mm (4)50mm (5)fisheye

[padiej]

I have catched the 300mm/f4 pentacon, 2,5kg heavy, qualitat is enorm against zoom (bridge fz18 and AF zoom Pentax DSLR). I payed 90€, but a new one with AF costs about 1000€, so I am happy with the deal.
My test:
http://forum.mflenses.com/pentacon-300-4-made-in-g-d-r-t6574.html
regards Peter

[zewrak]

On Pentax we got Focustrapping. Don't know if Canon have that. But it is excellent to have with long teles. If Canon have it, use it.

[yalcinaydin]

I'll attend to Istanbul Jazz Festival which includes a lot of concerts in a small venue and and some at really big ones. I don't know much about the big ones but for the small one I'll need
* something for group shots wider than 50mm, a MC MIR-24M 2/35mm Auto will be a good start I guess
* and a Super Takumar f1:1.9 85mm for portrait shootings. I'm a long exposure fan but mags generally want still ones so fast lenses are better.
* I don't know if fisheye will be good for concert shooting but with 1.6X crop factor I guess I will have a distorted wide angle than a real fish-eye and ı can fix it with DxO so it looks a good alternative than a fast wide lens.
* I haven't seen any pentacon 300/4 yet but there are some old Pentax SMC Takumar 300mm F4's on ebay, are they good or better than a Tair-3 300mm F4.5 ?

Blades look like pretty worned, is this a problem?

[A G Photography]

A bit on the pricey side for my tastes but if you need a REALLY long focal

Click here to see on Ebay

[Farside]

[yalcinaydin]

I'm seriously thinking of buying a Tair-3 300mm F4.5 (I liked the results that I've seen here) but it's 4kg weight is a bit frightening Indeed I'm working out with 5kg on my hands but taking photo with one of them can be serious task. When I think Canon EF 300mm f:4 L IS USM's 1200$ price tag these babies are much more than a bargain! I'm curios if I can use it on a monopod and shoot at concerts for really close shots. I'm using f:5.6 @135mm (IS or tripod support) so f:4.5 wouldn't be a problem.

I've started a bit fast I guess, I bought a 200/3.3, and likely will buy like newer used pentacon 135/2.8 and tair 300/4.5. The remaining lenses are if I can find clean 35/2, 85/1.9 and fisheye.

[voe]

[Attila]

I had Tair3s photosniper version for a little while, not so convience to use.
Even if a very good sharp lens I gived up becuase focusing wasn't my taste.

If you still would buy I suggest to ask seller for lens only,seller should put only the lens into postal package this will higly reduce your postal cost.

[yalcinaydin]

[Helios]

Very hard to use teles of 300mm and over . I'll purchase a stabilizated body (k10,k20) to avoid the use of a havy tripod or - more efficient - a "sandbag"
My preferred is a 200-500 Tamron which is very good . Then a 3M5CA f/8, and a Listar 500 f/8 (lightweight and tiny , but so-so), plus the Telemegor 4/300 . I dont use the telemegor 5,6/500 often , nore the Soligor 800 .

Tamron 200/500 hands held .




Soligor 800 : 30m distance , tripod

[yalcinaydin]

After Mitsuki 200/3.3 my second M42 is a Pentacon 135/2.8 Auto. I know that a CZJ 135/3.3 or Jupiter 37A has better image quality but I need speed for concert shootings so prefered 2.8. There was a JUPITER 37A F3.5/135 ended as 35$ but I preffered a newer used like Pentacon which is not a bargain but very good for its condition I guess: 36 pound=75$ or am I wrong

its definition: "I am selling for an elderly friend, a Pentacon lens 135mm f2.8 M42 screw Auto and Manual. I have listed this as used, but I do not think it has never been used but stored for about 30 years in dry conditions, as a result of this the aperture in slow to stop down through lack of use, manual is fine. I expect if you press the the aperture pin in a couple hundred times it would work smooth again."

and picture:


Indeed price is still good if I consider in Turkey they sell SESNON Auto Telefoto 135mm f/2.8 for this price and Revuenon 135mm f/2.8 AUTO for 100$. I'm curious about my new lens and I'm looking forward for a 35/2 and 85/1.9.

[yalcinaydin]

I've tried some quick MF at 135mm, 1/200 handhold, IF off (indoor), AF results better so I need much more practice I was just buying an addition of Super Takumar 2.8/105 but suddenly I thought of trying the focal lenghts with my 28-135 zoom. If you have a 135mm, buying a 105mm with the same max aperture is really pointless cause you can lean back and forth and cover that area or you can crop a bit tight. Of course you have money having the 105mm wouldn't hurt

So I formed my manual lenses as 200/3.3(have), 135/2.8(have), 85/2, 35/2 and Zenitar 16mm fish eye. I'm not sure about the 300/4.5 yet.

[luisalegria]

Hi Helios -

I agree about the value of stabilization ! Thats the most useful feature in years, much more valuable than AF. I also can hand-hold 400mm with no problems (in bright light) and "snap-shoot" with the Pentax.

That bird with the 600mm impresses the hell out of me.

[Attila]

I could use lenses without serious difficulties handheld till 500mm, I guess secret is weight. Almost impossible to handle well a heavy lens above 300mm. I don't like to bring everywhere tripod. In most purposes I never use longer lenses than 300mm. Sometimes for testing purposes I use longer ones.

[yalcinaydin]

I have lost the Tair-3S in the last 20secs to a last minute bidder although I've increased the amount to 35 pounds 30secs left to the end of the auction and I must say that this was an interesting experience
And for the record it's price is 36 pounds.

Anyways in the future I'll be more eager with more budget