Mamiya, Komine and Soligor - Who Made What?

[Oldhand]

A puzzle.
I have a Mamiya 2.8/28.
There is also a Soligor 2.8/35 that resembles it.
According to the serial number of the Soligor (H667774) it is made by Komine.
Soo the though occurs to me - did Komine make lenses for Mamiya?
Did Mamiya make lenses for Soligor - and is the H6XXXXX... serial a furphy .......
Here are the two lenses that aroused the interest:

The Mamiya:




The Soligor:

[woodrim]

I've often wondered why we don't hear more from people in Japan. While it is getting late to find people who were involved in the manufacture at the time, it is still possible. I for one would appreciate if I knew someone was soliciting information from older, retired workers from the manufacturers.

I can't answer your questions, but I can ask some more. I wonder just how much any of the manufacturers did themselves. Were the optical companies also machinists that made the casings? Did they do it all, including assembly? Or is it possible there were independent suppliers of various parts? I could easily believe that face plates, diaphragm mechanisms, and casings were provided by outside specialists. I can also believe that some of the larger manufacturers did everything in-house, but did Komine and other smaller concerns make all the necessary parts themselves? This is an especially good question when you consider how many different names their lenses displayed. If what I suggest was true, or at least with certain of them, it could render our efforts to make connections and draw conclusions futile.

[luisalegria]

In this case, the 28/2.8, the same lens (verified by disassembly and examination of elements, etc.) was made and sold in a T4 mount (presumably Tokina item), and also branded as a Sun. I have examples of both, plus a third fixed mount Soligor thats the same.

http://forum.mflenses.com/who-made-these-28-2-8-sun-or-tokina-t15298,highlight,%2Bsun+%2Btokina.html

[Oldhand]

[David]

As for design, it stands to reason that similar-vintage lenses would look similar. If one company has a popular product, everyone copies it. For instance, basically every car on the road today looks somewhat similar. Someone invents a popular design (for instance, a red ring around the front of a lens to show off that people can spend a lot for not much more and everyone throws some color ring around the front of their lenses.)

[Oldhand]

[dimitrygo]

[Oldhand]

[dimitrygo]

[luisalegria]

The case with these is not really that they are similar, but that under the skin they are identical.

Its that once disassembled its clear they are the same. Parts can be swapped from one to another including the actual lens elements.
Unless these various makers were using the same optical formula precisely, plus all the same internal spacing and fittings, this would not be possible.

Small lens makers of course ordered lens elements from other sources. Making and grinding lens elements is a specialized business. Even large lens makers did the same; Nikon etc. did not always make their own lens elements. Nittoh/Komine interestingly was one of these lens element suppliers, and they still manufacture optical elements for lens makers.

http://www.nittohkogaku.co.jp/english/

[Pancolart]

[CuriousOne]

Just got Auto Mamiya/Sekkor 55/1.4

The rear part construction, is absolutely similar to Chinon 50/1.7.

[woodrim]

[CuriousOne]

Have no idea how it was understood and by whom, but looking at mechanical parts of these two lenses (55/1.4 mamiya and 55/1.7 Chinon, I see too many mechanical similarities that can be attributed to copying or general practice.

How the mount is attached to lens body, how the aperture lock mechanism is designed, location of helicoid, protective collar and it's mounting style, etc etc, just can't be designed by different engineers.

[dimitrygo]

[woodrim]

Chinon was also known to use Tomioka.