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Nex Full Frame! It is almost here!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:12 am    Post subject: Nex Full Frame! It is almost here!!! Reply with quote
I knew it was coming. I had faith, I have been saving all year. The camera of my dreams!!!! Very Happy

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-nex-ff-camera-to-be-announced-on-september-24-tomorrow-zeiss-lens-specs/


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If those specs are true, that cam will be amazing!!
Leica beware!


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Prices, please!

Well, with a EOS 6D tagged at 1.8K and the Sony FF at (as rumours) 3K, does it worth it?
Otherwise, it will be a great camera, no doubt,

Renato


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Count me in Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sensor from Sony, IBIS from Olympus and glass from Zeiss that sounds really good!
if Olympus contribute also the in camera JPEG processing that will be a killer combination.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is rumored to be the same price as the Sony rx1. So it will be about $2800-3200.
For the most revolutionary camera ever, I think that is fair. I have been saving all year for this. I will be purchasing as soon as they let me get my grubby hands on one. I have dreamt about this camera for three years. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It sounds good - probably too good to be true.
Problems like microlenses that shade to much with some olde wideangle lenses, or give false color in the edges. Or a IR-Cut / AA filter that sometimes creates issues for us (hotspots, IR leakage, color shift to border).
Or hardware that is not nice to handle like a EOS 5D.
Or software restrictions that make it hard to use with manual lenses (missing focus aid, video modes).
And last but not least: Pricing!

At them moment I am not tempted.
But I will not sell lenses with short register distance - probably I could use them in near future.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hood wrote:
So it will be about $2800-3200.


That is in the range of a professional camera. But will professionals use it in stead of a DSLR for weddings, for fashion, for macros?
Alternatively, will there be enough amateurs ready to spend that much on a camera?


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Hood wrote:
So it will be about $2800-3200.


That is in the range of a professional camera. But will professionals use it in stead of a DSLR for weddings, for fashion, for macros?
Alternatively, will there be enough amateurs ready to spend that much on a camera?


What, like Leica? haha

You guys can naysay all you want. I own two nex's and two pentax dslr's... I grab my nex's 97% of the time. I shoot paying jobs on my Nex's... but each to their own. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Hood wrote:
So it will be about $2800-3200.


That is in the range of a professional camera. But will professionals use it in stead of a DSLR for weddings, for fashion, for macros?
Alternatively, will there be enough amateurs ready to spend that much on a camera?


"Prosumer". The original Canon 5D retail price was $3299, in 2006!


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ZoneV wrote:

Or software restrictions that make it hard to use with manual lenses (missing focus aid, video modes).

I don't believe that Sony will retrict the users there. They know precisely that the chance to adapt manual lenses is one of the main reasons to buy a NEX.

ZoneV wrote:

And last but not least: Pricing!

Yes. I agree! Way too expensive for me as well!

ZoneV wrote:

At them moment I am not tempted.
But I will not sell lenses with short register distance - probably I could use them in near future.

Same for me. Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
great news, just a FF Pentax and everybody will be happy Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
poilu wrote:
great news, just a FF Pentax and everybody will be happy Laughing


And a FF OM-D Wink


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, that's true, if Sony opens the door, Pentax and Oly can go trough this path also. Imagine to buy a Sony Nex 9 FF for 3K and 6 months later Oly or Pentax comes with theirs at 1/2 of the price tag...
Don't "hurry", be happy....
Very Happy

[]s,

Renato


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Confused A lot of money for not-my-only-hobby !
Definitely I'll have to use my 200 ISO film 35mm cameras for FF in the future , if I don't find a fortune Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
..
"Prosumer". The original Canon 5D retail price was $3299, in 2006!


I bought my first EOS 5D for ~850 Euro, a lot of money.
Never spend 1000 Euro for a single lens or camera (nor for anything else). And I want to avoid this if possible.
I have a lot of lenses, and some would probably work nice with a mirror-less camera - but I better wait longer.
Furthermore I don´t know whether I would like to work with a Display instead of an optical viewfinder. I never tested a NEX, but I can wait.

Probably I would buy a used NEX 24x36mm camera when its used price is cheaper than 1000 Euro.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok first off, Ricoh have announced they intend to pretty much do away with Pentax and move everything under the Ricoh banner, after closer inspection of their announcement, it seems they may keep Pentax name for traditional dslr line but all new mirrorless tech will come under the Ricoh banner. But don't forget they have had mirrorless medium format cameras doing the rounds through testers, I imagine these might be released under the ricoh banner, but still exciting times there too...

As for Olympus, Sony bought a 30-40% share in their company last year...

This new Nex will have evf built in as well as tiltable screen, so no, not just shooting off screen, it will have viewfinder as well, just like nex6 and nex7. Sony have included focus aid for manual glass shooting in all of their nex line since their inception, they now even include it in the new rx1 (which were infact prototype to see if they could make a full frame mirrorles) what makes you think they would remove those now and remove all their potential customer base that they already know would buy this camera?
In the end they know us manual guys are a small part of the equation, as most people who buy this will buy their new zeiss ff emount AF lenses that are being released at the same time with the camera. But by keeping us happy they get lots of instant exposure around the web which helps to sell the camera for them...

Just my thoughts anyway. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hood wrote:

What, like Leica? haha
You guys can naysay all you want. I own two nex's and two pentax dslr's... I grab my nex's 97% of the time. I shoot paying jobs on my Nex's... but each to their own. Very Happy


I will never understand why some people feels the need to twist normal comments into brand wars, like if this was another kiddie-ridden, DPReview-like type of forum.
My comments were simply the questions that I posed to myself looking at the price. I did not mean in any way to "naysay" anything, I am not such a stupid person, thank you for your consideration Sir Hood.
Everybody with a minimum knowledge of camera market should know that Leica plays a game by itself, in which the fashion and snob factors play a decisive role in the sales.
They are status symbols just like Rolex watches or Ferrari cars. And by saying this I am not denying the absolute excellency of their products, I'm simply stating a fact that is well known to all Leica dealers.
Therefore, comparing ANY camera brand sales with Leica sales without keeping this in mind, makes little sense.

The equation "Leica sells enough of their rangefinder cameras at 6000 USD so Sony will sell a lot more of the Nex Fullframe at 3000 USD" may happen,
but also may not, it is not necessarily going to be true. Some possible reasons:

1- Because professionals tend to invest in equipment with a consolidated tradition and literature of reliability in professional use, and despite being very popular in forums,
EVIL cameras are not (yet?) considered such, because there are few, if any, professionals that do choose them over reflex type of cameras.

2- Because people with large budget and modest photo interest are probably going to choose Leica anyway for the fashionability reason told above

3- Because amateurs with normal budget that are not interested in testing old manual lenses with full frame (the significant majority, I suppose) might find a 3000 USD price a bit steep
compared with the quality that they can already get with a 1000 USD Nex-7; remember, most amateurs using autofocus factory lenses do not really give a lot of importance to the sensor size. We do,
but that's because we like to test old manual lenses in the format for which they were originally conceived.
How many amateurs out there are in the same MF-junkie mindframe as we are, so willling to spend TWO THOUSAND dollars more than same brand APS-C top model
on another camera of the same type just because it's full frame? 2, 3 percent? 5 percent maybe, being very optimistic?

Don't know, my feeling is that if the camera was sold in the "dedicated amateur" price range (1500-2000 USD), it would have been a sure winner, while at 3000 USD,
it falls into the "professional" range, with users that would rather spend that kind of money in a different type of camera with a different tradition of professional use.

Let's not forget that an absolutely terrific camera such as the Nikon D800, full weatherproof, with 36+ MP resolution and a top quality array of lenses and flashes
tested and used by hundreds of thousands of professional photographers all over the world for almost a century, is currently available in shops for less than 2700 USD.

So, am I a "naysayer", or someone who makes considerations based on facts and numbers... it's for you to say.

Last edited by Orio on Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:30 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not twisting into wars Orio. I was just joking around, everything I said was light hearted. Maybe you need to relax mate. People are allowed to joke. I am sorry but I am an Aussie and we are larican's. It is in our nature to joke around. I am sorry if you took offense mate, none was intended, all just lighthearted fun. I love all you guys here, you have all been the greatest influence on my photography and I thank you all for that. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hood wrote:
No twisting into wars Orio. I was just joking around, everything I said was light hearted. Maybe you need to relax mate. People are allowed to joke. I am sorry but I am an Aussie and we are larican's. it is in our nature to joke around. I am sorry if you took of fence mate, none was intended, all just lighthearted fun. I love all you guys here, you have all been the greatest influence on my photography and I thank you all for that. Very Happy


Ok, sorry if I misunderstood.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not a problem Orio, like I said, sorry if I made you feel I was having a go. You are a great photographer and I have nothing but respect for you and all the rest of the great guys and gals that peruse the halls of this mighty forum. Very Happy


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Hood wrote:

What, like Leica? haha
You guys can naysay all you want. I own two nex's and two pentax dslr's... I grab my nex's 97% of the time. I shoot paying jobs on my Nex's... but each to their own. Very Happy


I will never understand why some people feels the need to twist normal comments into brand wars, like if this was another kiddie-ridden, DPReview-like type of forum.
My comments were simply the questions that I posed to myself looking at the price. I did not mean in any way to "naysay" anything, I am not such a stupid person, thank you for your consideration Sir Hood.
Everybody with a minimum knowledge of camera market should know that Leica plays a game by itself, in which the fashion and snob factors play a decisive role in the sales.
They are status symbols just like Rolex watches or Ferrari cars. And by saying this I am not denying the absolute excellency of their products, I'm simply stating a fact that is well known to all Leica dealers.
Therefore, comparing ANY camera brand sales with Leica sales without keeping this in mind, makes little sense.

The equation "Leica sells enough of their rangefinder cameras at 6000 USD so Sony will sell a lot more of the Nex Fullframe at 3000 USD" may happen,
but also may not, it is not necessarily going to be true. Some possible reasons:

1- Because professionals tend to invest in equipment with a consolidated tradition and literature of reliability in professional use, and despite being very popular in forums,
EVIL cameras are not (yet?) considered such, because there are few, if any, professionals that do choose them over reflex type of cameras.

2- Because people with large budget and modest photo interest are probably going to choose Leica anyway for the fashionability reason told above

3- Because amateurs with normal budget that are not interested in testing old manual lenses with full frame (the significant majority, I suppose) might find a 3000 USD price a bit steep
compared with the quality that they can already get with a 1000 USD Nex-7; remember, most amateurs using autofocus factory lenses do not really give a lot of importance to the sensor size. We do,
but that's because we like to test old manual lenses in the format for which they were originally conceived.
How many amateurs out there are in the same MF-junkie mindframe as we are, so willling to spend TWO THOUSAND dollars more than same brand APS-C top model
on another camera of the same type just because it's full frame? 2, 3 percent? 5 percent maybe, being very optimistic?

Don't know, my feeling is that if the camera was sold in the "dedicated amateur" price range (1500-2000 USD), it would have been a sure winner, while at 3000 USD,
it falls into the "professional" range, with users that would rather spend that kind of money in a different type of camera with a different tradition of professional use.

Let's not forget that an absolutely terrific camera such as the Nikon D800, full weatherproof, with 36+ MP resolution and a top quality array of lenses and flashes
tested and used by hundreds of thousands of professional photographers all over the world for almost a century, is currently available in shops for less than 2700 USD.

So, am I a "naysayer", or someone who makes considerations based on facts and numbers... it's for you to say.


MF- junkie, ha ha Laughing

Sonys target group is people who suffer from GAS and LBA?!? Wink

Orio, I second that, points taken. Enjoyable reading Very Happy

Last edited by Nordentro on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:


MF- junkie, ha ha Laughing

Sonys target group is people who suffer from GAS and LBA?!? Wink

Orio, I secound that, points taken. Enjoyable reading Very Happy


Seems I must be their target market then. Hahaha Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Status symbol -- "Oh, you've got a Nex. Is is FF like, mine." or "(S)he's got a FF Nex!" Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with orio, if it was priced at 1500-200USD it would be a winner. At 3000, I'd rather take a 36mp FF Nikon DSLR.

Not that I'm ever likely to have 3 grand to spend on a camera.

I suppose if Sony miss the boat and don't produce a FF NEX priced reasonably, then we can hope Samsung produce a FF NX at 50% of the Sony price, after all, Samsung's NX range is a viable alternative to the NEX at a lower price and Samsung are a huge corporation, so if they wished to, no doubt they could give Sony serious problems. We mustn't forget that sensor manufacture is akin to producing computer chips, something that Samsung has massive capacity and expertise in, and it costs huge sums of money to build state of the art chip fab factories, so only the big corporations like Sony, Samsung and Panasonic are likely to be able to afford to invest in technology and factories to enable large scale production of FF sensors at a price point that is affordable. I read it costs Canon 15x as much to make a FF sensor as a APS-C one, due to how many will fit on a die. Larger dies and cheaper manufacturing methods need to be developed, something which Samsung is deeply invested in through their chip making division, let's hope we will see technology transfer from the chip making side of things that makes manufacture of FF sensors much cheaper.

If I were Samsung, I'd buy the rights to the Contax name and produce FF NX as the Contax NX, that would give Sony something to think about Smile

In the meantime, this will have to be my FF solution Smile

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