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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:57 pm Post subject: 6x Shootout: Biotar Pancolar Oreston Primoplan Helios v6 v7 |
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Pancolart wrote:
6 lenses compared on 5DMkII:
Zeiss Biotar 2/58mm
Zeiss Pancolar MC (electric) 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Oreston 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Primoplan (light gold) 1.9/58mm
Helios-44M-6 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
Whole test done wide-open for all lenses. All lenses healthy and clean.
Here the contenders:
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS
Last edited by Pancolart on Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:05 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Here fixed WB so color is influenced by lens. Catching last daylight. Average Exposure time 1/125s on ISO 800.
Focus isn't always exactly on the flower so don't judge sharpness here it will come later.
Zeiss Biotar 2/58mm
Zeiss Pancolar MC (electric) 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Oreston 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Primoplan 1.9/58mm
Helios-44M-6 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS
Last edited by Pancolart on Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Sharpness and detail test photos using oversized gallery: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic,p,1057412.html#1057412 _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: 6x Shootout: Biotar Pancolar Oreston Primoplan Helios v6 |
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dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
6 lenses compared on 5DMkII:
Zeiss Biotar 2/58mm
Zeiss Pancolar MC (electric) 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Oreston 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Primoplan 1.9/58mm
Helios-44-6 2/58mm
Helios-44-7 1.8/50mm
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The last one is Helios-77M-4 |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Thank you Dimitry. I made this mistake a while ago and just memorize it wrong. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Zeiss Biotar 2/58mm
Zeiss Pancolar MC 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Oreston 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Primoplan 1.9/58mm
Helios-44M-6 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
WB set to auto so colors pretty similar. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Bokeh and color rendering. New detail and resolution samples in oversized gallery: http://forum.mflenses.com/pancolar-biotar-oreston-primoplan-helios-t31241.html
Zeiss Biotar 2/58mm
Zeiss Pancolar MC 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Oreston 1.8/50mm
Meyer-Optik Primoplan 1.9/58mm
Helios-44M-6 2/58mm
Helios-77M-4 1.8/50mm
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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pat donnelly
Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 666 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: Brilliant work! |
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pat donnelly wrote:
Great lenses too....... |
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Posts: 561
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
I would be glad if someone can point out to some areas where the differences between these lenses can be obsereved. Meanwhile apart from FL and color tints I cannot see much differences. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I guess we are talking here about demystification of the idea that differences are anywhere more then subtle. To be a bit crude and sarcastic: if someone doesn't see any difference it doesn't really matter which lens he owns for photography purpose . Wide-open use of course. Aperture blades design changes things a bit. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 2530 Location: Thach Alabama
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
I guess we are talking here about demystification of the idea that differences are anywhere more then subtle. To be a bit crude and sarcastic: if someone doesn't see any difference it doesn't really matter which lens he owns for photography purpose . Wide-open use of course. Aperture blades design changes things a bit. |
Wonderful comparison. _________________ Big Dawg |
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ylyad
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 476 Location: Zentralschweiz
Expire: 2013-12-05
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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ylyad wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
I guess we are talking here about demystification of the idea that differences are anywhere more then subtle. To be a bit crude and sarcastic: if someone doesn't see any difference it doesn't really matter which lens he owns for photography purpose . Wide-open use of course. Aperture blades design changes things a bit. |
I feel a bit relieved I was starting to worry about my eyes. Sure, there are slight differences, but I'd have hard times telling which one is better. Different characters, similar quality. _________________
Camera: Fuji X-E2, Fuji X100T
MF: Canon nFD 50/1.4, Canon nFD 100/2.8, Tokina RMC 135/2.8
Tamron SP 24-48/3.5-3.8
http://www.flickr.com/derdide/
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
ylyad wrote: |
I feel a bit relieved I was starting to worry about my eyes. Sure, there are slight differences, but I'd have hard times telling which one is better. Different characters, similar quality. |
Yes! There are many tests out there that gives opposite impression. Mostly due to lenses with defects. And really thorough explanation is given to justify specific lens "discrimination" .
Funny thing is it was very hard for me to see anything meaningful at the beginning. It's only after going through different test photos few times to get some feeling. Momentary i favor Oreston warmth. Pancolar sharpness and detail at infinity (reaching edges). If in mood for poetry i would always choose Primoplan where Biotar express confidence and discipline .
I already tried swirl comparison but results aren't good enough to post. I'll try to make better samples. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
I guess we are talking here about demystification of the idea that differences are anywhere more then subtle. |
Nothing has been demystified, as far as I'm concerned. In your test all lenses are indeed quite close, which is not so surprising because you picked lenses that do not have vast differences in their designs and age.
I have seen plenty of other tests of ~50/1.2 and 85mm lenses and others though where the differences in rendering style are very significant and easily noticeable. It all depends on the scene you're shooting and the camera (full-frame or crop often makes a big difference) and processing settings you use.
Last edited by AhamB on Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
Results of both helios lenses and biotar are close, because they share the same optical design.
But Primoplan is very different, I'm sure I'd recognize it in the first set, probably even in ther 3rd set. As for the 2nd set, I wouldn't be sure, maybe. _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Pancolart wrote: |
I guess we are talking here about demystification of the idea that differences are anywhere more then subtle. |
Yes, this is true especially for 50mm lenses, because as we saw, most of them are basically the same lens, and the counstruction principle is so standard, and the glass requirements are so easy (no big magnification, and no wide perspective stretching, therefore no need for expensive high refraction glass or aspherical elements to correct aberrations), that we can really say most are de facto the same lens.
But if you test 20mm lenses or 300mm lenses, of course, things change, considerably. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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MoonPix
Joined: 26 May 2011 Posts: 43 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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MoonPix wrote:
zXzXZX
Last edited by MoonPix on Thu Apr 27, 2023 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hemisferico
Joined: 24 May 2011 Posts: 14 Location: north and south america
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Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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hemisferico wrote:
I think you would also see more noticeable differences comparing 50mm F1.4 lenses, a much more difficult design to execute. _________________ "Le doute n'est pas une condition agréable, mais la certitude est absurde." -voltaire |
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Seele
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 742 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Seele wrote:
In terms of design the Primoplan is the oddball here, as it is not a Double-Gauss type, but an advanced Triplet development.
For the longest time it has been much maligned, but when seen individually it is not half bad. |
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andrej
Joined: 06 Oct 2011 Posts: 7 Location: Belgrade, Serbia
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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andrej wrote:
I've found a nice condition Helios 77m-4, like the one reviewed, however with a slightly different label. It's in Russian ГЕЛИОС, and since it's my first manual on a digital body, I'm a bit afraid of mounting it to a 5d mk2.
I couldn't find 77m-4 mc Helios in any compatibility charts for 5d, so just to make sure - will it fit? It works very nice on a eos rebel 450D, but will it damage the mirror on 5d? By the looks of it, it seems it should work, and it mounts well, I just didn't click the shutter.
edit: for some reason it doesn't show the pic: forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201110/4776_helios_1.jpg |
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indianadinos
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 1310 Location: Toulouse, France
Expire: 2011-12-05
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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indianadinos wrote:
andrej wrote: |
edit: for some reason it doesn't show the pic: forum.mflenses.com/userpix/201110/4776_helios_1.jpg |
Hi and welcome to the forum ... This is an anti-spam feature for users with one post only ...
I'm not sure about the 5D, but on the 5D MkII you have a 0.7mm clearance between the bottom of the lens and the mirror ... _________________ Please visit my blogs Shooting with a Pentax K10D / FF Visions
Takumar: 24/3.5, 28/3.5, 35/2, 35/3.5, 50/1.4, 55/1.8, 85/1.8, 105/2.8, 120/2.8, 135/3.5, 150/4, 200/4
Pentax-K: M28/2.8, K28/3.5, M50/1.4, A50/1.7, M50/4 Macro, K85/1.8, K105/2.8, K135/2.5, M200/4, M70-150/4
Zeiss: Flektogon 20/2.8, 20/4, 35/2.4, 35/2.8, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Biotar 58/2, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer: Primagon 35/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Orestor 135/2.8
Schacht/Steinheil: Travenar 90/2.8, Travenon 135/4.5, Quinar 135/2.8, Quinar 135/3.5
Russian: MIR 37B, Industar 50/3.5, Helios 44M & 44M-2, Jupiter 37A
P6: Flektogon 50/4, Biometar 80/2.8, Orestor 300/4
Nikkor: Nikkor-O 35/2, Micro 55/3.5, Nikkor-S 50/1.4, Nikkor-Q 135/2.8
Fuji: EBC 28/3.5, EBC 55/3.5 Macro, EBC 135/2.5
Misc Lenses: Kiron 105/2.8 Macro, Tamron SP90/2.5
... and a few other Vivitar, Tamron, Sigma and Soligor lenses ...
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andrej
Joined: 06 Oct 2011 Posts: 7 Location: Belgrade, Serbia
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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andrej wrote:
thanks!
yes, I searched for some more articles on whether it will cause too much damage if not suitable and finally pressed the shutter
it works all good on 5D mark II, focus to infinity and all.
I really like the 'swirly bokeh' it produces, and image quality is more than fine for the money spent. |
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fuzzywuzzy
Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 1258 Location: Down East, Canada, eh?
Expire: 2013-11-30
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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fuzzywuzzy wrote:
MoonPix wrote: |
I love these kinds of comparisons... they are indeed very similar to one another. Yes, I can see slight differences between them... but for the most part, they give the same impression. What is interesting is the price differences between them. Isn't the Biotar much more expensive than say the Helios? |
The Helios 44 was the kit lens on the Zenit cameras and the Soviets made a LOT of them. There were probably a hundred Helios 44 manufactured for every Biotar.
Lucky for us it's such a well-made Biotar clone and so cheap! _________________ I welcome C&C, editing my pics and reposting them on the forum is fine.
NEX-F3
~~~~~~~~~
CZJ Sonnar 135/4, Biotar 58/2, Pancolar 50/2, Tessar 50/2.8, Flek 35/2.8, Flek 25/4
Super Takumar 135/2.5, 135/3.5, 100/4 bellows, 50/1.4, 28/3.5
Helios 58/2, 3M-5A 500/8, Mir 20M
Vivitar Series 1 70-210 - - - - - - - - Nikkor 200/4
Rikenon 28/2.8 - - - - - - - - Zeiss 50/1.7 Planar
PB 50/2.4, 135/2.8
Yashica 50/1.9, 28/2.8, 135/2.8
Hexanon 28/3.5, 50/1.4 |
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hasan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 313
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: |
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hasan wrote:
thanks for the comparison.
the differences are only visible by seeing them side by side.
still, imo the pancolar renders nicer than the others.
regards |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
The Pancolar gives a good account of itself. _________________ Hero in the 'messin-with-cameras-for-the-hell-of-it department'. Official. |
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