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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3704 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: The Underdogs |
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Pancolart wrote:
Praktina KW and Rolleicord Art Deco. Add yours . _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
Edixa Reflex.
Lever wind, and an internally operated automatic diaphragm - years before the original Pentax. But the Pentax gets all the credit because it had an instant return mirror - even though it lacked an automatic diaphragm!
Coincidentally the Edixa gained an instant return mirror the same year the Pentax gained auto-diaphragm.
And yet people still say the Germans were years behind the Japanese...
Also the early Topcon cameras are very blatantly inspired by the Edixa Reflex, even if they use an Exakta mount.
Edixa - they get no respect. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:59 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Contaflex ! More of them work after 50+ years than Retinas ! If you want a cheap SLR that syncs at 1/500 (or 1/300 for the Pantar types), what are you going to get ?
As for Edixas - is it true about the reliability problems ? _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
luisalegria wrote: |
As for Edixas - is it true about the reliability problems ? |
I don't think they're any less reliable than any other SLR of the era. Although they are known to be harder to repair when something does go wrong.
I think the reputation for reliability may stem from Wirgin's other cameras, or the not very successful/reliable Edixa Electronica SLR. |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:44 am Post subject: |
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David wrote:
Pentax K1000
I know what you're thinking, there are millions of them, the longest production run of any SLR ever. But they have a reputation as a learner's camera, a student's tool. The K1000, being strictly manual, allows greater user control over settings and results than any other camera I know.
Sure, it lacks some bells and whistles like a timer, winder interface, and so forth. But in its simplicity exists an unrefined beauty transcending all camera user skill levels and, in that providing a universal camera capable of producing quality results in any skilled user's hands.
Though later models became plasticy and lacked the substantiality of the earlier, metal counterparts, the design basis, adherence to simple mechanical principles, and camera longevity combine to create a perennial classic with a mountainous catalog of lenses capable of delivering results in nearly any focal range.
Hold your K1000 high and stand atop your roof and proclaim, in loud voice, to all your neighbors your unending love, a love without need for reason or justification, for this camera. And when they wake up, and when they tell you to stop yelling, just tell them if they knew a K1000, they, too, would stand stop a roof and wake their neighbors. Just don't slip while you're up there. I'd feel bad. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6602 Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
I never understood the reputation of the K1000, myself.
There are a host of SLR's that have had the same virtues and capabilities.
Heck, every M42 camera made from 1965- 1980 has all of these. And something like a Ricoh TLS is a more durable camera to boot. And nearly all these nice M42 bodies are cheaper than a K1000 - giveaway cheap in fact.
And then we can speak of Minolta SRT's, Canon FTb's, Yashica FX3's, etc., all sturdy all-manual cameras which have usually sold for much less. _________________ I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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Mos6502
Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 960 Location: Austin
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Mos6502 wrote:
I thought the K1000 had a pretty good reputation though.
I'll put a vote in for the Ciro-Flex though.
The basic model is pretty crude I guess, but the intermediate and top models with Rapax shutters and flash synchro were good for their era. They also adopted fresnel screens early on. All of them are very sturdy cameras.
They tend to be overlooked a lot though. |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
Praktina FX
IMO it's the best East German SLR I have used. You have changeable Viewfinders, you can attach a quick wind lever, a spring motor and even a electromotor (i haven'tt used this) and you have access to a full range of CZJ lenses.
Olympus Pen FT
Nice little "crop" camera for 35mm film. I like it for the portrait frames and for shooting series since you get 72 frames on standard film. |
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David
Joined: 13 Apr 2011 Posts: 1869 Location: Denver, Colorado
Expire: 2013-01-25
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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David wrote:
It has a good reputation as a learner's camera. I'm just making the point that it's a good camera for all skill levels, but doesn't serve any one niche use better than any other camera does. I think people tend to look down on it as being for students.
I agree the same case could be made for most older M42s, such as my DTL1000, Hanimex 35SL, etc.
It seems many people want a flashy camera with gizmos and features and overlook solid, reliable ones as being for a population learning how to focus on an image. That's all. _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/hancockDavidM |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
IANUS wrote: |
............Olympus Pen FT
Nice little "crop" camera for 35mm film. I like it for the portrait frames and for shooting series since you get 72 frames on standard film. |
The meter behind the lens made the finder a bit difficult to use. I prefer the finder of the FV.
The single F had the bad fame to had an erratic shutter, but bright finder.
Plus the lovely lenses. The normals (F/1,2; 1,4 and 1, and the short teles are small jewels.
And the great zoom 50/90 mm.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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dof
Joined: 04 Feb 2009 Posts: 339 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: |
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dof wrote:
Nikon N2020
- One of the few AF 35mm SLRs with traditional controls (shutter speed dial, etc).
- Uses all AI, AIS or AF Nikkors
- Rugged construction, nice ergonomics and more than enough automation for me
- Some criticize its AF speed but I find it more than adequate for all but fast action like sports, etc
- available dirt cheap
Edixa SLRs
- I like these too. A zillion different models to choose from.
Miranda SLRs
- Beautifully made
- removable prisms/finders
- sharp lenses, quick lens mount
- EE Sensorex has spot meter |
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IANUS
Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 276 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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IANUS wrote:
Quote: |
The meter behind the lens made the finder a bit difficult to use. I prefer the finder of the FV.
The single F had the bad fame to had an erratic shutter, but bright finder.
Plus the lovely lenses. The normals (F/1,2; 1,4 and 1, and the short teles are small jewels.
And the great zoom 50/90 mm.
Rino. |
Is the difference between the viewfinders of the FT and FV that big? The Ft has not the brightes viewfinder but good enough for normal light conditions - especially if you have the fast lenses.
Unfortunately prices have gone up and availability isn't the best. I would like to have one of the wide angles but it seems to be difficult to get on for a reasonable price.[/quote] |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
The Canon T70 is an underdog and cheap to buy probably because most people think it's ugly, but for me it's my most used camera out of fourteen 35mm Film SLRs (inc T90) and never lets me down (esp with backup of safety shift) and the matching flash gun is very good as well. _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Big Dawg
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 2530 Location: Thach Alabama
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Big Dawg wrote:
David wrote: |
Pentax K1000
I know what you're thinking, there are millions of them, the longest production run of any SLR ever. But they have a reputation as a learner's camera, a student's tool. The K1000, being strictly manual, allows greater user control over settings and results than any other camera I know.
Sure, it lacks some bells and whistles like a timer, winder interface, and so forth. But in its simplicity exists an unrefined beauty transcending all camera user skill levels and, in that providing a universal camera capable of producing quality results in any skilled user's hands.
Though later models became plasticy and lacked the substantiality of the earlier, metal counterparts, the design basis, adherence to simple mechanical principles, and camera longevity combine to create a perennial classic with a mountainous catalog of lenses capable of delivering results in nearly any focal range.
Hold your K1000 high and stand atop your roof and proclaim, in loud voice, to all your neighbors your unending love, a love without need for reason or justification, for this camera. And when they wake up, and when they tell you to stop yelling, just tell them if they knew a K1000, they, too, would stand stop a roof and wake their neighbors. Just don't slip while you're up there. I'd feel bad. |
+1
My first 35mm SLR. The only one I could afford at the time (Bought through Sears and Roebuck) and I still have it. Light seals are leaking and the needle doesn't work but I still keep it.Been thinking seriously about having it either refurbed or get another maybe newer version. AHHH! Just need more bucks! _________________ Big Dawg |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 2167 Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
The Edixas were almost all relatively crudely made, had unreliable shutters and abysmal viewfinders. Not really any better than a Praktica IV and nowhere near as good as a Pentax S1 or S3 . . I used to dread being offered one in part-exchange, it almost invariably meant tears somewhere not very much further down the line.
The early 1960s vintage Pentaxes were just the opposite, nicely made, reliable with good viewfinders. Almost the only problems we saw were when people tried to use Edixa auto diaphragm lenses - they indexed slighly off-centre on a Petnax body and the diaphragm tripping plate sometimes failed to move the pin on the lens far enough forward to close the iris, whereupon the camera jammed up solid. (easy to fix, just take out the four screws on the front plate and lift off the lens and mounting flange together )
The Japanese made K1000 was great camera. It worked, it handled beautifully, it was very well built.
Er, I think I'm slightly off-topic now . . . Just having a bit of a blether to myself really ! _________________ Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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erkie
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 308 Location: Missouri
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:34 am Post subject: |
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erkie wrote:
Praktica FX3 Yes the shutter button is on the front and yes the shutter sounds like a Rube Goldberg rat trap going off and yes the mirror slap will make your tripod legs walk across the floor. But you know what mine is just as good today as the day it was built and even today I smile every time I flip that wonderful little magnifier down on the waist level finder and try to focus on something And by gosh when you hit the shutter release everyone in a two block radius knows you've captured a moment in history
Eric |
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alex66
Joined: 26 Oct 2011 Posts: 29 Location: Bedfordshire England
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:36 am Post subject: |
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alex66 wrote:
I have got a lot of pleasure from using the Fujicas; STX1 AX1 and AX3 with the 50mm f1.6. I really like this lens a lot and the cameras have all cost me less than a fiver. Alas my AX3 does not work properly in Aperture priority so I really want to find a cheep replacement, although an AX5 would be higher on my list.
I also have an old Cosina CSM that I like a lot, it is a good simple M42 manual everything camera, the lenses I have for her are ok, probably not much to write home about though. My enjoyment of the Fujicas has made me ponder getting an M42 Fuji though and there is also the Cosina CSR that as I recall added spot metering.
The last camera that I have enjoyed using that is slightly off the beaten track is a Chinon CE-4s, she requires a better 50mm lens and a reasonable 135mm (ish) but she has the added bonus of a multiple exposure meter.
So all these super cameras have cost me not a lot of money, some as bought with zoom lenses and light meters I did not have use for actually made me a bit of cash over all. I have got a lot of pleasure from using them, but the downside is the constant thought of what do I fancy trying next. There are ones that I have been looking out for a bargain such as a Konica but they seem to go for more money than my bargain bodies. My wife loves her Canon AV1 which was bought for a very small amount of money and along with an AE1 and AE1p we have a very nice range of lenses for it: 28mm 2.8, 50mm 1.8 (x2) 135mm 3.5, 35-70mm f4 and a 70-210 f4 along with a sigma zoom 28-80mm I think, but I like the Fujicas the best for some reason. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:13 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
David wrote: |
Pentax K1000
I know what you're thinking, there are millions of them, the longest production run of any SLR ever. But they have a reputation as a learner's camera, a student's tool. The K1000, being strictly manual, allows greater user control over settings and results than any other camera I know.
Sure, it lacks some bells and whistles like a timer, winder interface, and so forth. But in its simplicity exists an unrefined beauty transcending all camera user skill levels and, in that providing a universal camera capable of producing quality results in any skilled user's hands.
Though later models became plasticy and lacked the substantiality of the earlier, metal counterparts, the design basis, adherence to simple mechanical principles, and camera longevity combine to create a perennial classic with a mountainous catalog of lenses capable of delivering results in nearly any focal range.
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Simply... I agree. I sold scores of them in the late 70's to photographers (as opposed to technophiles) It was an amazing camera, simple, reliable and just did the job. Extremely popular. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7788 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Edit.....I've just realised this is in the 'Film SLR / TLR' forum.
How about a more modern underdog? The Pentax K10.
Pentax as a modern brand are the underdog anyway, always in the shadow of Canon and Nikon, and now Sony. But they broke the mould with the K10 and K20. And with the more modestly priced cameras in the range, as the K30 is doing today.
Where else could you get a weatherproof, well built, well specified camera for the price of the K10 ? I don't think you could. And then add the fact that you could use all the Pentax legacy lenses ( and how good are many of them ? ) AND so many other lenses with a simple adapter and you have a winner.
It's a camera that had a good reputation among those who know about such things, the average canikon user sneered and poked fun. Those of us that bought one just basked in the pleasure of knowing that we owned a damn good camera, one that despite advances in technology is still relevant today.
I have a cabinet full of old cameras behind my desk, some very nice classics such as the Olympus OM1, Minolta 7000 and Pentax S1a, all cameras that stand the test of time but lacked the glory of the rivals from Canon and Nikon. But none more so than the Pentax K10, it's modern, it's AF, but it's probably done more to keep MF lenses alive than it's rivals.
So, as part of my edit, I will now nominate the Olympus OM1. Even though it was a good seller and very successful it also lived in the canikon shadow, and I guess Pentax as well at that time. But the OM1 was revolutionary in its compactness and design.
I never owned any Olympus until I picked up an OM1 kit a few months ago, and it's superb. It probably did achieve the reputation it deserved, but I think it was launched into underdog position. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 1826 Location: North East England
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
Lloydy wrote: |
I will now nominate the Olympus OM1. Even though it was a good seller and very successful it also lived in the canikon shadow, and I guess Pentax as well at that time. But the OM1 was revolutionary in its compactness and design.
I never owned any Olympus until I picked up an OM1 kit a few months ago, and it's superb. It probably did achieve the reputation it deserved, but I think it was launched into underdog position. |
If it hadn't been for people like David Bailey, the OM system would probably have been ignored and that would have been our loss.
I am going to nominate Balda for their excellent range of hobbyist rangefinger cameras from the late 50s/early 60s, even though this is the SLR/TLR forum. I love the way they are engineered. |
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sonyrokkor
Joined: 24 Sep 2012 Posts: 222 Location: Perù, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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sonyrokkor wrote:
A lot of OM 1 had sometrouble and erratic shutter and another details, from them was necessary the OM 1 n.
In the specialist literature of the 70's and 80's the OM system was not considerated as professional level cams.
I have to say that used an OM 1 for a short time, and nothing went bad.
Another beauty was the OM 3. Used it for a few hours. Nice, very nice to use. |
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 6557 Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
sonyrokkor wrote: |
A lot of OM 1 had sometrouble and erratic shutter and another details, from them was necessary the OM 1 n.
In the specialist literature of the 70's and 80's the OM system was not considerated as professional level cams.
I have to say that used an OM 1 for a short time, and nothing went bad.
Another beauty was the OM 3. Used it for a few hours. Nice, very nice to use. |
Many professionals did use the OM system back then and never had any trouble with them. Olympus aimed the camera directly at them, but also at a price that anyone could afford. There were a number of professionals who regarded something smaller than their Nikon F brickhouses as suspect and not up to the job, but they were entitled to their opinion as they clunked and clanked their way across the landscape. _________________ Dave - Moderator
Camera Fiend and Biograph Operator
If I wanted soot and whitewash I'd be a chimney sweep and house painter.
The Lenses of Farside (click)
BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
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Webshop Norway
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https://fomaobchod.cz/inshop/scripts/shop.aspx?action=DoChangeLanguage&LangID=4 |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
I was a big Olympus fan and the OM1 was a jewel. I loved it. Small, light and a pleasure to use.
I traded it for something else, I forget what for and regretted it.
I bought a service-exchange OM10 a couple of years later and got the manual adapter for it, that and another and an OM40 were the basis of my professional kit. While everyone else was using 'Canikon'.
Then 2 of my cameras went Kaput on the same day at a wedding. I managed - but only just to produce a decent set of pictures. When asking about repairs I was informed that Olympus have no spare parts and can not supply repairers with what was necessary.
That put me off Olympus and I took the Nikon path. I have never regretted it - although in these enlightened times when I am adapting old, manual lenses I could have chosen better -i.e Canon.
I have never owned a Pentax (for more then a day) but I remember the old adverts about the 'feel of a Pentax' it was very true. I would love to own a Spotmatic |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
I was a big Olympus fan and the OM1 was a jewel. I loved it. Small, light and a pleasure to use.
I traded it for something else, I forget what for and regretted it.
I bought a service-exchange OM10 a couple of years later and got the manual adapter for it, that and another and an OM40 were the basis of my professional kit. While everyone else was using 'Canikon'.
Then 2 of my cameras went Kaput on the same day at a wedding. I managed - but only just to produce a decent set of pictures. When asking about repairs I was informed that Olympus have no spare parts and can not supply repairers with what was necessary.
That put me off Olympus and I took the Nikon path. I have never regretted it - although in these enlightened times when I am adapting old, manual lenses I could have chosen better -i.e Canon.
I have never owned a Pentax (for more then a day) but I remember the old adverts about the 'feel of a Pentax' it was very true. I would love to own a Spotmatic |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012 Posts: 4744 Location: Cheshire, England
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
how did it come up twice? |
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