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Two lenses in action, but which is better?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Two lenses in action, but which is better? Reply with quote

There is another thread running concurrently where many people have shared contrasting opinions on how best to test lenses for comparison. I have tried to determine which of my lenses is sharpest, which provides the best bokeh, color, etc, but here is what ultimately helps me determine what I like best. But in this comparison, I have used two lenses that I like equally, but maybe for different reasons. However, what I think this will show is not so much the differences, but just how difficult it is to discern a difference between two very good, yet different lenses. The lenses share an approximate same focal length, a slightly different maximum aperture, and different optical schemes for sure.

I won't yet identify the lenses, but instead challenge you to see if you can at least determine which pictures are from the same lens. There are eleven from each lens. I will be very interested in hearing what viewers can tell. There are 11 from each lens. Camera is NEX-5N.

1


2


3


4


5


6


7


8


9


10


11


12


13


14


15


16


17


18


19


20


21


22


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this perfect light lens is not matter I think Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Differences between two good quality lenses are usually minimal - this is quite known, albeit sometimes denied by the most hardened "lens brand warriors" Very Happy
Identification is difficult even when the two lenses take the same scene to be compared side by side. With different scenes, identification is simply impossible.
On crop camera, it is even "more impossible", because most of the visually evident differences usually happen at the edges of the frame, which are not captured.
So, I will not even try Wink


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orio wrote:
Differences between two good quality lenses are usually minimal - this is quite known, albeit sometimes denied by the most hardened "lens brand warriors" Very Happy
Identification is difficult even when the two lenses take the same scene to be compared side by side. With different scenes, identification is simply impossible.
On crop camera, it is even "more impossible", because most of the visually evident differences usually happen at the edges of the frame, which are not captured.
So, I will not even try Wink


Exactly. Unless the apertures and setups are identical, this impossible.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a great day at the beach!

I might try to at least guess focal lengths later but for now I'll just enjoy the pics Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it might be possible to match up some shots that have enough and different bokeh but the small aperture landscape distance shots are going to be hard to distinquish.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, you love those quizzes, don't you? 11 images per lens is too hard, too much information. IMHO it would be better to present 3 images per lens.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must have been a great day at the beach.
I like #13 most; wanted to be there!

Funny excuse to expose such a lot of pictures Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermy wrote:
11 images per lens is too hard, too much information. IMHO it would be better to present 3 images per lens.

I have to agree with fermy here, I'm lost in an avalanche of information.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed quite a difficult challenge to determine which pictures are from the same lens but anyway, that's for sure two great lenses and it was a perfect day to test both lenses on the beach, great series from a great place Very Happy ...


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5, 8 and 16 due to the buttery bokeh.
Others are too difficult.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same for me. I tried to differentiate by the light and the length of the shadows (assuming you only changed lenses once) but that's not the point of the exercise.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot the question...but I loved the beach,the shells, what looked like good fishing...the drift wood....it just looked like you had a very nice time at the beach with two lenses.....#11 was my favorite and I enjoyed seeing the texture on the shells.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent shots and great work at a wonderful location. I'm not going to the guessing game,
leave that to others...


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, okay, of course you're all right, too difficult to tell any appreciable difference. Had I thought I might do this post, I might have tried to keep the exposures more similar, but I was really just out to have a good time. But what you all see here is exactly my point (I think). These two lenses will get different reactions from this group of people, but they remain my favorite two in the focal length. I have my own perceptions of which is sharpest, which has the best bokeh, best colors, contrast, etc., but any time I've tried to prove it, I've been defeated by the results. Still, I'm confident one is the sharpest, but the other seems to give me more joy from the results. Well, most times, but this time in the same setting, they performed equally in my mind. So how important is the detail analysis we give to lenses, using test charts, etc?

I think the difference were more discernable when I was using my Sony A200, but now that I'm using a NEX-5N, the sensor seems to bring out the very best in both lenses with few if any flaws.

While the light made shooting wide open impossible, there is one that I know was wide open, that being number 5, but from which lens? The lenses were Tair-11 133/2.8 and Vivitar Series 1 135/2.3.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have also mentioned that neither lens has much or any coatings. The Tair is older and the Vivitar is an early version before the VMC. But look how well the Tair handled the direct sun reflections.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hoanpham wrote:
5, 8 and 16 due to the buttery bokeh.
Others are too difficult.


Thanks for taking a stab at this. One was from the Tair and the other two the Series 1. I think the one Tair is so characteristic of the lens it should be obvious ?????


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'll take a stab. My guess is that #5 is Vivitar.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either way you look at it, the photos are a great advert for both lenses. Cool


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermy wrote:
Ok, I'll take a stab. My guess is that #5 is Vivitar.


Yes indeed. I took it at f/2.3 not expecting much since it would not have been usable from the A200, but it performs much better with the NEX sensor. The picture was overexposed at 1/4000, my max speed, and while not razor sharp, it is acceptably sharp at point of focus and would have been better with a proper exposure. I should also mention that I will be in deep if my wife discovers I posted that picture - no make-up and squinting with sun in eyes. As an aside, I find this very interesting how much better my lenses perform with the NEX, whereas before we would have judged the lens unusable at this aperture. The sensor can't make a lens sharper, just record what it delivers.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
I should have also mentioned that neither lens has much or any coatings. The Tair is older and the Vivitar is an early version before the VMC. But look how well the Tair handled the direct sun reflections.

Most lenses since WWII have at least single coatings. Uncoated lenses are VERY old.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I should have said neither are multi-coated.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
Maybe I should have said neither are multi-coated.


MC a bit 'gymic' in proper light any single coated lens works same well and even uncoated lens works pretty okay , most uncoated lens what shows foggy pictures , reason is not lack of coating, but much dust inside or lot of small cleaning mark on surface. MC lenses give more realistic colors , contrast perhaps, but with PP really no matter. I have a few clean not scratched pre-war lens without coating, they are great picture takers, lack of coating not visible much on pictures or not visible at all depend by each frame.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attila wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Maybe I should have said neither are multi-coated.


MC a bit 'gymic' in proper light any single coated lens works same well and even uncoated lens works pretty okay , most uncoated lens what shows foggy pictures , reason is not lack of coating, but much dust inside or lot of small cleaning mark on surface. MC lenses give more realistic colors , contrast perhaps, but with PP really no matter. I have a few clean not scratched pre-war lens without coating, they are great picture takers, lack of coating not visible much on pictures or not visible at all depend by each frame.

I couldnt disagree more. Coating and Multicoating on lenses is not a "gimick". Coating and MC reduces veiling flare even in shots where there is no bright object in the frame. Where coating and MC really helps is in lenses with many air glass surfaces like zooms and wide angles. And contrary to popular belief, you cant fix veiling flare in PP.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your selection process is moved into an area only you personally can access to decide which lens is better, unless you want to loan the two lenses to somebody else to decide. Wink

Surely there are logistical differences in operation, different focus & aperture ring feels, general ease of use factors, etc.. Which is more pleasurable to use? Which do you think gives best results? These decisions can take quite some time...Wink