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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: Sigma 50 1.4 HSM and Takumar 50mm 1.4 bokeh test |
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mikkokan wrote:
I just bought the Sigma and wanted to find out the differences between these two lenses. Takumar is sharper wide open but Sigma produces smoother bokeh. However I find that Takumars bokeh is better in real life photos...
Sigma 50mm 1.4 HSM
Takumar 50mm 1.4
Maybe I'll take more samples later...
Here's another pic 100% crop:
SIGMA
TAKUMAR
_________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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anscochrome
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 115 Location: Omaha, NE
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
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anscochrome wrote:
To my eyes, the Sigma looks better in both photos posted. It has higher contrast, so the in focus subject looks sharper. In the last two, the Sigma background is smoother, and I se glow in the Takumar shot. |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 5017 Location: UK
Expire: 2014-04-21
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
From your results I choose the Sigma. _________________ Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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DanielT74
Joined: 01 Apr 2011 Posts: 204
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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DanielT74 wrote:
What are these lenses? 50-60 years apart? And the Super-Tak is a tiny little thing that if you are lucky you can pick up for under $100.
Did you use the regular version or the early 8-element one? |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Quote: |
Did you use the regular version or the early 8-element one? |
You should add the S-M-C Takumar to this question too. The design also changes from the transition to the Super-Tak to the S-M-C/SMC. |
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RTI
Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Posts: 282 Location: Moldova, Chisinau
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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RTI wrote:
while I like how sigma renders the background a weak point of this lens is the foreground rendering - see how smooth the takumar is in the first example. _________________ Cameras: Canon 5DIII, Zorki-4, Canon AE-1
MF:Rokkor 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 58/1.4, Yashica ML 50/1.7, M39 Jupiter-9 (silver 1955), Zuiko 35-70/3.6
AF: Sigma Art 35/1.4, Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC, |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3666 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
themoleman342 wrote: |
Quote: |
Did you use the regular version or the early 8-element one? |
You should add the S-M-C Takumar to this question too. The design also changes from the transition to the Super-Tak to the S-M-C/SMC. |
Other than coatings, what changes to the optics of the 7 element versions are you referring to? _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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mikkokan wrote:
I have this 7 element version.
_________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
Quote: |
Other than coatings, what changes to the optics of the 7 element versions are you referring to? |
To my understanding, the design was tweaked. It's still a very very similar double-gauss scheme but the construction of both lenses is slightly different. The S-M-C version is about 30g heavier than the Super-Tak. The S-M-C is also sharper and has less glow wide-open (and this would be beyond variation. I had, at one time, about 6 of each version), a phenomenon I don't think could be explained through just a coating. My belief is that some minor design change was employed to better optimize it for wide-open.
Whether you believe that there was an alteration or not, I do think it's worth differentiating the lenses for the purpose of this thread. |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
anscochrome wrote: |
To my eyes, the Sigma looks better in both photos posted. It has higher contrast, so the in focus subject looks sharper. In the last two, the Sigma background is smoother, and I se glow in the Takumar shot. |
Here too!!! _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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pdccameras
Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 825 Location: Putnam, CT
Expire: 2014-08-11
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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pdccameras wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
anscochrome wrote: |
To my eyes, the Sigma looks better in both photos posted. It has higher contrast, so the in focus subject looks sharper. In the last two, the Sigma background is smoother, and I se glow in the Takumar shot. |
Here too!!! |
I agree as well. I can understand how difficult it is to really make shapness/contrast differentiations based on the re-sized images shown in forum posts. Do the Pentax results you are seeing on your monitor at full size really look sharper? It seems to my eyes, on my computer monitor that the Sigma (top samples) images are noticably sharper. Were the images mislabelled perhaps?
Paul _________________ Canon 5D Mii, Canon 40D, Canon 350D IR, Sony A7 Mii, Sony Alpha-6000, a ton of lenses: AF & MF and too many cameras to count, all formats: 110 - 4x5. |
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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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mikkokan wrote:
anscochrome wrote: |
To my eyes, the Sigma looks better in both photos posted. It has higher Were the images mislabelled perhaps?
Paul |
No they are correctly labeled. _________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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ChromaticAberration
Joined: 23 Dec 2010 Posts: 819 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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ChromaticAberration wrote:
anscochrome wrote: |
To my eyes, the Sigma looks better in both photos posted. It has higher contrast, so the in focus subject looks sharper. In the last two, the Sigma background is smoother, and I se glow in the Takumar shot. |
All there is to say. This is not the ideal post to be read by someone considering buying an "old ass" Takumar instead of a modern AF Sigma. _________________ Body: Fujifilm X-E1
Landscapes: Samyang 12mm f/2 NCS CS
Macro: Vivitar Series 1 105mm Æ’/2.5
Portrait: Helios-44 58mm Æ’/2.0
Low-light: SMC Takumar 50mm Æ’/1.4
_________________
Marketplace feedback
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a pнoтograpн ιѕ neιтнer тaĸen or ѕeιzed вy ғorce. ιт oғғerѕ ιтѕelғ υp. ιт ιѕ тнe pнoтo тнaт тaĸeѕ yoυ. one мυѕт noт тaĸe pнoтoѕ.†– нenrι carтιer-вreѕѕon |
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ilguercio
Joined: 08 Mar 2012 Posts: 414 Location: Southern Italy-Calabria!
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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ilguercio wrote:
The Sigma has got an aspherical lens inside so it MUST be a better lens, even if you consider the price they're asking for it. |
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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 379 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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torbod wrote:
I also think that the Sigma looks better in terms of sharpness, contrast, background bokeh and glow. And as someone else stated, worse in foreground OOF rendering. I'm more interested in the edge performance of the lenses, does any of the lenses have any significant drop off?
/T _________________
For Sale or Trade: Pick from the list below.
Manual Lenses: CV 15 4.5 | MIR-20H 20 3.5 | Elmarit-R 28 2.8 | Flektogon MC 35 2.4 | S-M-C Tak 50 1.4 | Rollei 50 1.8 HFT | Helios 44-3 MC 58 2 | MC ROKKOR-X 58 1.2 | MacroPlanar 60 2.8 | Vega-12b 90 2.8 | Tamron 52B 90 2.5 | CZJ 135 3.5 | Jupiter-21A 200 4 | Tair-3s 300 4.5 | KOHBEPTEP K-1 | Takumar x2 |
Camera: Sony Nex 5N |
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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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mikkokan wrote:
Bokeh test continues
I like Takumar 50 1.4's bokeh but one must be carefull about the background. It works best in closeups and simple backgrounds.
SIGMA 50mm 1.4HSM
TAKUMAR 50mm 1.4
TAKUMAR 50mm 1.4 closeup picture
SAMYANG 85 1.4
There is a big difference in these lenses! Samyang is very smooth but Takumar has the most character. This Samyang lens is amazing! _________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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Rolf
Joined: 02 May 2009 Posts: 4123 Location: NRW/Germany
Expire: 2015-12-26
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Rolf wrote:
Bokeh is not a mathematical formula. You like it or not - it is a question of personal preferences.
I sold for example the Canon EF 1.4/50 and bought instead for the 1DsMkIII the 1.4/50 Sigma because I like the Sigma bokeh better. But again - only my personal point of view.
And yes the Samyang 85mm is a nice lens too. But the main application of these type of lenses are the portrait shots, smooth, soft wide open etc. - totally different to a standard 50mm lens.
_________________ Rolf |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I would add, let's not forget that the main point of an image is the subject and not the bokeh _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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mikkokan wrote:
Yes of course it's a matter of personar taste. Subject is of course the most important point but the bokeh is very close to that I would say 70% subject, 30% bokeh. _________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:50 am Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
mikkokan wrote: |
...I would say 70% subject, 30% bokeh. |
% bokeh depends on subject - boring subject needs interesting bokeh and the other way round _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
mikkokan wrote: |
...I would say 70% subject, 30% bokeh. |
% bokeh depends on subject - boring subject needs interesting bokeh and the other way round |
Boring subject better needs no photo taken _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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mikkokan wrote:
ForenSeil wrote: |
mikkokan wrote: |
...I would say 70% subject, 30% bokeh. |
% bokeh depends on subject - boring subject needs interesting bokeh and the other way round |
This is well said!
Nevertheless bokeh is always important especially in portraits. Unfortunately Takumars bokeh is in some situations too nervous but then again very interesting in some situations. _________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 1826 Location: North East England
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
Orio wrote: |
I would add, let's not forget that the main point of an image is the subject and not the bokeh |
+100 |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 1826 Location: North East England
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
Orio wrote: |
ForenSeil wrote: |
mikkokan wrote: |
...I would say 70% subject, 30% bokeh. |
% bokeh depends on subject - boring subject needs interesting bokeh and the other way round |
Boring subject better needs no photo taken |
+200 |
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mikkokan
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 Posts: 170 Location: Finland
Expire: 2015-12-02
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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mikkokan wrote:
Sometimes you need to take a picture and you cannot choose the subject. This is where you need to think these things. For example you are hired to take portraits in certain location and you cannot choose the subject or location, then you need to think what lens you choose from your bag. _________________ Canon EOS 1Ds mkII, 1D mkIV, 1D mkII, Fuji X-E1
Takumars 28mm 3.5, 50mm 1.4, 135mm 3.5, Helios 44-2, Tamron 70-210, Domiplan 50mm, Trioplan 100mm
AF-lenses:Canon 24-105L, Sigma 50mm 1.4HSM, Canon 135mm 2.0L, Canon 24-105L, Sigma 12-24, Sigma ART 35mm 1.4 |
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