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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: First tests to see if the CZJ135mm f3.5 is something special |
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Excalibur wrote:
Well the CZJ is the sonnar and all shots were on the same film at f5.6 at 1/250 sec at the same time on superia 200 and just supermarket dev and low scan. I wanted to compare the sonnar with the Meyer zebra 135mm f2.8 and Pentax super tak 135mm f3.5.......and my conclusion is:- I'll have to try something different as the results look very similar to me, mind you the Meyer and Tak are very good lenses (although I'm not impressed with the Tak for close up work).
CZJ 135mm f3.5 sonnar
Meyer zebra 135mm f2.8
Pentax super Tak 135mm f3.5 the focus looks slightly different to me.
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I sold my 3.5/135 Sonnar because the Meyer/Pentacon 2.8/135 is better. The Sonnar has a slight edge in sharpness for distant subjects but the colours, bokeh and overall rendering of the Meyer/Pentacon are more pleasing to my eyes.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
My order was next from these lenses,
1) Sonnar general all purpose lens, too sharp for portrait
2) Pentacon for portraits
3) Takumar , it wasn't impressed me.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
Last edited by Attila on Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 3754
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
In the sonnar world, I prefer the zebra not MC version.
Never used the pentacon in the right way. I have to give to it a second chance, I guess.
Rino
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CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
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Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
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Etc.
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torbod
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 379
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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torbod wrote:
Interesting.
Have a look at this old thread where I tested e.g. bokeh with the S-M-C and Sonnar 135s. As you say, the biggest drawback with the Taumar is the MFD, otherwise good enough for me, especially considering the price that is at least half of the Sonnar.
http://forum.mflenses.com/same-but-different-s-m-c-135-3-5-vs-czj-135-3-5-mc-updated-t38837.html
/T
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Manual Lenses: CV 15 4.5 | MIR-20H 20 3.5 | Elmarit-R 28 2.8 | Flektogon MC 35 2.4 | S-M-C Tak 50 1.4 | Rollei 50 1.8 HFT | Helios 44-3 MC 58 2 | MC ROKKOR-X 58 1.2 | MacroPlanar 60 2.8 | Vega-12b 90 2.8 | Tamron 52B 90 2.5 | CZJ 135 3.5 | Jupiter-21A 200 4 | Tair-3s 300 4.5 | KOHBEPTEP K-1 | Takumar x2 |
Camera: Sony Nex 5N |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
My order was next from this lenses,
1) Sonnar general all purpose lens, too sharp for portrait
2) Pentacon for portraits
3) Takumar , it wasn't impressed me. |
Well yes:- it's using a lens for what it is best at, and I'm sure the sonnar will fit in some where unlike my Vivitar 135mm f2.8 which was very disappointing when I took it to Ibiza as an extra lens to play with, even my Kiron 80-200mm was superior.
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.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
Having a DSLR is much easier for testing compared to using film...to try and be consistent with one film I would have to swap the film to different cameras to compare with my other 135mms i.e. Canon FD breechlock 135mm f3.5, Yashica ML 135mm f2.8, Hexanon 135mm f3.5 ...and after all that work some of my lenses might be bad copies 
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.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I am sure you will love Sonnar as other hundred thousands people, this lens was sold in large quantity. Many 135mm lenses from top brands on same level than Sonnar ,but hard to say any better one or significantly better one. Usually 10x more expensive lenses are not much better also.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| Attila wrote: |
| I am sure you will love Sonnar as other hundred thousands people, this lens was sold in large quantity. Many 135mm lenses from top brands on same level than Sonnar ,but hard to say any better one or significantly better one. Usually 10x more expensive lenses are not much better also. |
I also have the flek 35mm f2.4 on the same roll of film for comparison (for colours etc) and that is a very sharp lens...but that is another story
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.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
havent use a czj 135 yet, but have different 135 around:
pentacon 135/2.8, vivitar 135/2.8, tak 135/3.5, pentax K135/3.5, pentax M 135/3.5, pentax K135/2.5.
I like the color rending of the K135/3.5 best, no PP needed, very good.
sharpest is the vivitar, but color is not as good.
smallest & lightest is the M135, good but not exceptional.
takumar is ok, same as M135.
K135/2.5 is good for low light concerts, but have som CA and PF.
I need to re-run the pentacon.
If i take one lens, it is the K135/3.5.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 5017
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| hoanpham wrote: |
havent use a czj 135 yet, but have different 135 around:
pentacon 135/2.8, vivitar 135/2.8, tak 135/3.5, pentax K135/3.5, pentax M 135/3.5, pentax K135/2.5.
I like the color rending of the K135/3.5 best, no PP needed, very good.
sharpest is the vivitar, but color is not as good.
smallest & lightest is the M135, good but not exceptional.
takumar is ok, same as M135.
K135/2.5 is good for low light concerts, but have som CA and PF.
I need to re-run the pentacon.
If i take one lens, it is the K135/3.5. |
erm well there you go...you say your Vivitar is the sharpest and out of my six 135mms it's the worst I don't use 135mms much but so far my breechlock Canon FD 135mm f3.5 produces very good results, but it would be nice to get a bit of extra CZJ pop (Zeiss?) into a few shots, and the sonnar might help.
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.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
Yes, funny that my copy of the vivitaris sharp. I have had several copies, now still have two identical, but has tested one, and always pick it. All 135 photos are listed in my picasa. I paid 15usd for each. Seller had not bother to attach them to his camera.
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| hoanpham wrote: |
| Yes, funny that my copy of the vivitaris sharp. I have had several copies, now still have two identical, but has tested one, and always pick it. All 135 photos are listed in my picasa. I paid 15usd for each. Seller had not bother to attach them to his camera. |
...and more annoying for me is because my Vivitar135mm f2.8 is in mint condition and Komine made....erm could be:- it's in mint condition because no previous owners considered it worth using 
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Vivitar 135mm made by many vendors quiet natural your result is very different too.
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
Whilst a bit daft to make a full comparison based on one shot, for me the Sonnar has the "pop" which I so like in its character. The Pentacon can also do this, but I don't see the effect so clearly here. For portraits the Pentacon will likely have that gorgeous bokeh 
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Excalibur
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Excalibur wrote:
| ManualFocus-G wrote: |
| Whilst a bit daft to make a full comparison based on one shot, for me the Sonnar has the "pop" which I so like in its character. The Pentacon can also do this, but I don't see the effect so clearly here. For portraits the Pentacon will likely have that gorgeous bokeh |
The super Tak 135mm f3.5 is so similar for colours to the CZJ Sonnar 135mm f3.5 it seems the film has decided what the shots are going to look like so I'll post again if my sonnar has something special.
Super Tak 135mm f3.5
CZJ 135mm f3.5 sonnar
And just for interest as I know a lot of people like the Meyer 135mm f2.8, so here is how the Meyer handled the smoke bush:-
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Canon A1, AV1, T70 & T90, EOS 300 and EOS300v, Chinon CE and CP-7M. Contax 139, Fuji STX-2, Konica Autoreflex TC, FS-1, FT-1, Minolta X-700, X-300, XD-11, SRT101b, Nikon EM, FM, F4, F90X, Olympus OM2, Pentax S3, Spotmatic, Pentax ME super, Praktica TL 5B, & BC1, , Ricoh KR10super, Yashica T5D, Bronica Etrs, Mamiya RB67 pro AND drum roll:- a Sony Nex 3
.........past gear Tele Rolleiflex and Rollei SL66.
Many lenses from good to excellent. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15679
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
If you're looking for some magical Zeiss 'pop' then you won't find it, it's far more about subject and technique than the lens used, a tree closeup is a bad subject for trying to get some 3d 'pop' you need to chose a subject you can isolate from the background and isolate it through the transition from in-focus to out-of focus. Pentacon/Meyer can do this just as well as the Sonnar, as can any good 135mm lens, microcontrast helps but it's 90% subject and technique, 10% optics.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| a tree closeup is a bad subject for trying to get some 3d 'pop' |
Well, not in all cases, sometimes with the right optic...
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:55 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
That shot of a Lancia is a different subject type - there is plenty of spatial separation between the car and the background, with a tree, the parts of the tree are close together. I find it hard to explain what I mean in words.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| That shot of a Lancia is a different subject type - there is plenty of spatial separation between the car and the background, with a tree, the parts of the tree are close together. I find it hard to explain what I mean in words. |
OK, no more lancia 
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
And now the pop has gone, it was the Lancia that popped out of that image.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| And now the pop has gone, it was the Lancia that popped out of that image. |
if by "pop" you mean a focused object over a blurred background, it's never been there.
But in the foliage I see a very dimensional transition from focused to blurred, with an obvious distance
between the first group of leaves and those that follow.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:10 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Looks flat to me, i don't see any dimensionailty.
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Another example, with a different lens.
Please enlarge by clicking on image, it's easier to see at the intended size:
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011
Posts: 2575
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:22 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
I think i need some help here to clarify what you guys mean by 'pop' or 3D effects.
what criterias must have, maybe a closer definition - we are not talking about lenses yet.
if you are talking about an object in focus (sharp and contrast) and blurred background, (almost) any lens can do it, may be not webcam or cellphone cam.
* removed images *
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Last edited by hoanpham on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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