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Singapore with a manual focus Sigma
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hong Kong one of the must visit place , thank you for sharing!


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Hong Kong one of the must visit place , thank you for sharing!


Steve photos are very nice, but for no money in the world I would ever visit Hong Kong. Shocked

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why Orio ? Because the flight ?


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
niblue wrote:

Why not?


Because I would become mad and depressed. A city full of concrete and asphalt, so full of people that you almost have to work with elbows to make your way walking in the streets... no silent place, no nature, no artistic place... so full of skyscrapers you can barely see the sky unless you go on the sea. Houses and apartments of tiny size. No privacy almost anywhere. Super crowded place (I think Hong Kong has the world record of density population) only built for commerce and consumism, with no trace of history or nature.
That is my own idea of what hell could be for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Why Orio ? Because the flight ?


You should know me by now. I like small towns, the country, the places where you can walk alone if you want, the woods, the art monuments, the old buildings, the trees, the animals, the smell of mountain air in the morning when you wake up.

I hate the confusion and the traffic and the concrete.

I would die in Hong Kong, like a plant without the water Sad


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
But for a visit ? I don't want to live there just i would see and spend a few days over there.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
But for a visit ? I don't want to live there just i would see and spend a few days over there.


I would rather see other places in Asia, where you have history and nature and beautiful landscapes. Thailand, to name one.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I tell you silently you can found more photographic shop in Hong Kong than anywhere else Wink and now ?


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I tell you silently you can found more photographic shop in Hong Kong than anywhere else Wink and now ?


I would still not want to go.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steve, if I understand correctly, yours was a residential area.
As beautiful as it can be (but I suspect we have different concepts of what is beautiful), I would go nowhere to visit residential areas. What sense there would be?
Either one is interested in the main city (and I am not), or there is no point to make a trip, especially that far away.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can understand Orio's reluctance - I feel a bit the same about HK. When I had the opportunity (while working for a commercial Australian Bank) I spent some days in Bangkok instead. Totally fascinating place and of course the food is to die for (it's mainly why I went). I also feel a lot the same way about Tokyo (and I have never been there). I spend enough time as it is in crowded places. It's actually just a question of priorities - cant go everywhere.


Orio
you should try the PNW, where at least four of the members of this forum live - art and ancient buildings will be missing, but the open spaces are incredible still. Food is also excellent.


Very Happy Very Happy patrickh


PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
niblue wrote:
Orio wrote:
Steve, if I understand correctly, yours was a residential area.
As beautiful as it can be (but I suspect we have different concepts of what is beautiful), I would go nowhere to visit residential areas. What sense there would be?
Either one is interested in the main city (and I am not), or there is no point to make a trip, especially that far away.
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Each to their own, however there are many European cities that are in practice busier than Hong Kong, at least partly because not many Hong Kong residents own cars (it's the only place I've lived where I didn't have a car) but instead use public transport to get around.
So far it's the most pleasant and relaxing commute I've had
The real hustle and bustle is actually limited to just a few areas and in fact much of the city areas don't feel all that bust. In additional many of the best tourist and photographic sites are well away from the city centre anway, including several on Lantau island a few miles walk (through country areas) from where I lived.
Perhaps it's not to everyones taste but nearly everyone I know who's lived or visited has loved it, and usually loved the fact that there is a great balance of vibrant/bustling areas but with tranquil spots never far away.


Steve, far from me to want to contrast your enthusiast vision of Hong Kong. I have friends who visited there for both work or pleasure, and reported about a place very different from what you describe. But of course they did not stay there as long as you did.
But in any case I would not live in cities, not even European. This is the reason why at the age of 46 I have not moved to a city yet. I was forced to live 4 years in Milano for university and that was enough for me. When I came back home, on my hills, I felt reborn.

Anyway, there is a couple of cities where I would probably be able to live, if not forever, at least for some time, and they are Paris and Rome. Because of things of beauty that are there, that would make the discomfort of a city more bearable for me. Things that I would not be able to find in Hong Kong.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This discussion shows that we do not all share the same taste - thank God!
I guess there is no "right" or "wrong" here, it is just a matter of preferences.

I, for my part, live in a very rural area and I would love to live in a city like HongKong for a while, say 3 months or so, to gather new experiences and to "inhale the scent of our modern world".
But then, I guess, I would love to move back to my quiet and rural home here in Germany.

My 2c...


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:

I, for my part, live in a very rural area and I would love to live in a city like HongKong for a while, say 3 months or so, to gather new experiences and to "inhale the scent of our modern world".


Well, I lived 4 years in Milano and all that I could inhale was lead oxide. Twisted Evil

Then of course there are the so called "advantages" of big city: lots of club houses where to waste your money, easy availability of drugs and of prostitutes of every age and sex... all things that I can easily live without.

As for the other city advantages:

- lots of shops: well, time ago it was a real advantage, today there is internet, I can find and buy online everything that I wish.

- lots of cinemas: if there is a rare movie that I really want to see, I can take a train. For normal movies there are cinemas also in the province.

- music concerts: same as above, if there is a concert I really want to attend, I can buy my ticket online, and take a train.

I admit that 20 years ago living in a city offered some definite advantages, but today it isn't so anymore and the disadvantages overcome the advantages by large. And with the advent of online works, a lot of people here in Italy is leaving the cities to go live in the countryside.

And I still can not forget when in Milano I used to come back to my apartment in the evening, blow my nose and see black stuff on the kerchief... and imagine what was in my lungs.

.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've never been a fan of the city either. I work in Canterbury, which whilst not exactly a big place (more of a large town, although technically a city) isn't somewhere I'd want to live. I live on the edge of a small rural market town in a small house that backs on to farmland and marshes. I have no wish to drive so living in the country itself wouldn't be that practical - small town life suits me.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio, I understand your opinion, but it is a difference if you have to take a train to attend nighlife or if you just step out of your door.
I have lived in Frankfurt for a while and there I had the chance to easily get to concerts etc. without spending one hour inside a stinky train (sorry, but many German regional trains are not pleasant to sit in).

In the long run, I would never want to live my whole life in a big city, just for some time.

Imagine all the street photography that I cannot do, here in my village. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:

Imagine all the street photography that I cannot do, here in my village. Wink


I imagine all the street photography that I could not do in the big city!

- no carnevale parades (people is too busy working in the big city, they don't like the streets to be occupied for whole days)
- no mediaeval costume fairs
- no flag jugglers
- no country fairs
etc.

Well, in the big city I could perhaps photograph the no global marches or the union strikes marches. If they don't beat me to blood that is. And even if I could make it out of there healthy, I am sure I will meet plenty of gipsies or drugged men in the underground to steal me of my camera and lenses. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
And even if I could make it out of there healthy, I am sure I will meet plenty of gipsies or drugged men in the underground to steal me of my camera and lenses. Evil or Very Mad

Just tell'em it's all manual focus, they will leave you and all of your old "garbage" Wink


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
I imagine all the street photography that I could not do in the big city!

- no carnevale parades (people is too busy working in the big city, they don't like the streets to be occupied for whole days)
- no mediaeval costume fairs
- no flag jugglers
- no country fairs
etc.


None of these I can shoot in my village. Sad
For my last mediaeval fair shots I had to drive, guess what, to our closest city. Wink

Orio wrote:
Well, in the big city I could perhaps photograph the no global marches or the union strikes marches. If they don't beat me to blood that is. And even if I could make it out of there healthy, I am sure I will meet plenty of gipsies or drugged men in the underground to steal me of my camera and lenses. Evil or Very Mad
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In HongKong or Singapur? Aytually, I doubt that.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
None of these I can shoot in my village.


Well, the nice thing of my region is that every small place has it's own fair in the summer. And if the place is a castle or burg (and there are many), costume events are organized regularly.
And the Carnevale, as you know, was born in Italy, so it's a strong tradition here.
But I am sure that you must have some other forms of social events in your community. There are so many kind possible: sport events, school events, arts courses, dance courses... the occasions for a photographer are many also in a small place, usually.

LucisPictor wrote:

In HongKong or Singapur? Aytually, I doubt that.


Well, I don't know the kriminality situation in those places - anyway I was just talking generally about the big cities now, not specifically of those places.

There is just one simple fact that will always let me prefer the small places to a big city, photographically-wise: here, I can walk around with my cameras at the neck and with my expensive Contax lenses, and still be completely safe.
I would NEVER go out in a big city with my Contax lenses. I would be forced to keep them at home. No wait: at home is not enough, because there are kriminal bands of foreign immigrants who are specialized in robbing houses, and the house robberies have multiplied of 35% in the last year only, "thanks" to the non existent immigration control by our governments, where the other nations, especially from Eastern Europe, send here their kriminals because it's the easier way for them to solve their kriminality problem: "Just send them to Italy! Their idiot government will not expel them". Here in the North of Italy we had NO kriminaility until the 1980s, in the last 20 years it has become dangerous to live in big cities, because the idiot government is not able to expel the immigrant kriminals. So I would be forced to keep those lenses inside a strongbox, and pray, that the thieves are not good enough to open it.

But is this life?

No thanks. I stay here, where I can go out with my best lenses with no fear, and where my woman can walk alone the night and no one will disturb her.
Yet...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio, I guess we are talking about two different kind of big cities.
If a city really is as bad as you describe, I also would not like to live there either.

In German cities you can find some places that are dangerous (esp. in Hamburg, in Frankfurt and in Berlin) but there are many areas where you could use your expensive gear without the fear of losing it.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Orio, I guess we are talking about two different kind of big cities.
If a city really is as bad as you describe, I also would not like to live there either.


I think that German security is better than Italian security, because Italy has stupid laws, if police captures a kriminal, the laws are such stupid that the kriminals are out and free in two hours. This because of the Christian moralism that says "you must offer the other cheeck... you must not jail the kriminal until the trial.... you must welcome kriminals that other nation expel..." we are becoming the garbage place where other nations send their kriminals to.

Tunisia and Morocco governments for last 20 years have sent to Italy their worst kriminals, that they did not want to have in their countries anymore... killers, drug merchants, prostitute merchants... they were so happy to be able to get rid of them... and we Italians are the idiots that accept them "because we must help the poor".

Same thing is happening now with many kriminals from Eastern Europe. We must accept the kriminals because it's not good Christian behaviour if we expel them. And of course these kriminals all go here to Northern Italy, because we are the most rich part of Italy. And so now they control all the drug and prostitute commerce in the North of Italy. Not even Mafia managed to arrive here and control drugs and prostitutes, they did.

Now the prisons of Milano and Torino are full of kriminal immigrants but they can not keep them until the process, so they release them and they make other krimes. Imagine how the police feels, they risk their lives to capture these kriminals, and after two hours, they have to see them be released.

Quote:
In German cities you can find some places that are dangerous (esp. in Hamburg, in Frankfurt and in Berlin) but there are many areas where you could use your expensive gear without the fear of losing it.


In the big cities of Northern Italy (Milano and Torino) the underground is always unsafe if you carry expensive photographic equipment, because different from the past, the underground has become the house of many immigrant kriminals who don't have a house. In other nations, immigrants that don't have a house and a work are expelled. In Italy, they can stay even if they don't have a house and don't have an honest work. So if you go to the underground, where they live, it's like if you go to their house.

The downtown areas are safe, but I would not take the chance to carry expensive photo equipment there in any case.

Rome (central Italy) is slightly better because it's a tourist city so there is more control from the police in the tourist areas to protect the visitors. Rome during the day is 100% safe in all tourist interest areas.
In the evening is relatively safe in tourist areas, with presence of police, but still I would not carry visible photo equipment.

Southern Italy is a case apart because there is the Mafia, and it's always not just unsafe, but straightly dangerous. In the big cities (Napoli and Palermo) it's dangerous just to go out in the street and walk normally.

Foreign tourists are safe to visit Italy until Rome.
Southern than Rome, I recommend my foreign friends to not go. Although it's sad because Sicily has many historical beauties. But the danger of being there is too high.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This really doesn't sound good, Orio.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
This really doesn't sound good, Orio.


The quality of life in the big cities of the North has decreased dramatically in the last 20 years.
Here in the countryside, luckily, the things have not changed much - a bit worse, but still a very safe place to live and raise a family and children. Thanks GOD.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome in the club Orio! You will love your Mafia if they clean your country instead of your impotent government.

Last edited by Attila on Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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