versions of f1.8/55mm Super Takumar

[kuuan]

I had noticed that the 2 Super Takumar f1.8/55mm I have don't look the same,
one has the lettering of the Auto Takumar f1.8/55mm, the other on the left side the lettering of later Takumars:



On closer inspection the Super Tak ( here version I ) is a 'mixture' of the Auto Takumar and the later Super Takumar ( here version II )
and there may be yet another, even later version with Super Multi Coating?



blue arrows indicate being identical
red arrow indicate being different

1: body width: Auto Tak = Super Tak I, Super Tak II wider
2: aperture ring and A/M switch: Super Tak I = Super Tak II, Auto Tak turns and switches the other direction
3: aperture ring design: Auto Tak = Super Tak I only grooves, Super Tak II knurls
4: focus ring: Super Tak I = Super Tak II, Auto Tak knurls more shallow
5: body widht: Auto Tak = Super Tak I, Super Tak II more wide
6: lettering style: Auto Tak = Super Tak I, Super Tak II like later Taks

I don't know if this rather 'academic' comparison is of interest to anybody, and I do not even know if they are all identical optically, though I suppose they are, anybody knows?

[Mal1905]

This is certainly of interest to me, had been thinking of doing something similar in the future

If you look closely again at your two Super-Takumars, the focusing ring has narrower knurls on the model on the left (2nd photo - designated 'II') than the one in the middle. Also, the "," is missing from the 'Asahi Optical Co.' on the later model.

I currently have 11 versions of the 1.8/55 - all slightly different. Will photograph them and document the differences when I get back home.

Thanks for starting this thread, and for the work you put into your research

[Spotmatic]

Indeed, the 1.8/55 Takumars are very interesting!

Maybe you have seen this one before, but it's still a nice variation with dots between the f/stops and the angled lines in the DOF scale. And now that I see it, they even forgot to include the "Feet/Meter" designation at the left of the distance scale window. No IR markings either

[Mal1905]

@ Peter - Snap!!! Seems like we've just found some long-lost relatives [check out the serial number]

[Spotmatic]

Wow Malachy, that was unexpected. Nice! It's indeed the same and not a monday-morning version. Strange thing to omit the Feet/Meter designations, don't you think too? Ours seem to be from the same batch and are the same, up to the paint over the screws on the barrel.

[Shiladitya]

[Mal1905]

[kuuan]

[Mal1905]

[Univer]

Hi,

There seem to have been, over the course of its life, numerous running changes to this lens: some cosmetic and some mechanical; some well-documented, others not so much.

Years ago, back in my film days, I encountered incompatibilities between one of the late Auto-Takumar 55/1.8s (the one that's a sort of early Super-Tak) and several Pentax models, including the camera it arrived on: a Pentax S3. The problem had to do, in part, with the way that particular lens's auto-aperture pin worked; when mounted to certain models it wouldn't stop down properly, and when mounted to others it would interfere with mirror travel at certain apertures. The lens was the "proper" one for the S3, so the issue mystified me.

It turns out that Pentax itself acknowledged the problem, advising users not to mount Auto-Tak 55/1.8s with certain serial numbers to certain models; my lens was the right lens, but the wrong serial number. There was a useful discussion about the matter at one of the Pentax sites, I recall, and it became clear, as different users posted their experiences, that my specific problem was, with respect to running changes to lenses and cameras of this era, only the tip of the iceberg.

None of this is of any concern for me nowadays, since I use my Takumars exclusively on digital bodies. But if you're planning to use one of these late Auto-Taks on a film body, you may well run into some of these little glitches.

Cheers,

Jon

[Mal1905]

[Univer]

Thanks so much for the kind words!

Truly, trying to cast my mind back to my film days made me realize how easy it is for the little bits of information, over time, to fall through the cracks. I mean - if it's so hard for me to remember the details of my own "history," from not all that long ago, imagine what happens to the really obscure stuff, after twenty, or thirty, or fifty years.

It may even be that I still have the original discussion about these issues archived somewhere. I can try to dig up the specifics of these lens/camera incompatibilities - do you suppose anyone would be interested?

Cheers,

Jon

[Mal1905]

[Spotmatic]

Univer, this very problem is stated in the Honeywell Pentax H3v & H1a manual:

"Do not use the Auto-Takumar 55mm f/1.8 lens with a lens number smaller than 462500 with the H3v and H1a camera bodies, for its automatic diaphragm will not work correctly due to modification and improvement of the Instant Return Mirror and automatic diaphragm mechanisms of these new models."

[womble]

I would be interested as I have recently purchased a Pentax H2 and am looking for an appropriate standard lens for it. I'd rather not buy one with "glitches"

Thanks, Kris.

[Excalibur]

***I currently have 11 versions of the 1.8/55***

What's the quality control like i.e. do they all give similar sharp photos?

[Univer]

[fish4570]

you guys sure are focused on this lens collection thing.

[Mal1905]

[Mal1905]

[fish4570]

that's right. comfort zones are velvet traps ...

[djmike]

There are six models of Super Takumar 50/1.8 per Asahi's Part Number here http://www.aohc.it/tak03e.htm from Y1962. So where is other look like? And they looks having same lens element but the first version is quite lighter while other five have similiar weight.

[peterm1]

My goodness I love these early Asahi Pentax products, both lenses and cameras. In my view they surpass anything Pentax did later when measured against their competition of the day. These were the companies best times. I have several of these lenses myself plus the auto Takumar versions plus several from the era in other focal lengths. Wonderful.

[Mal1905]

[Univer]

Hi,

OK, here goes - following up, as promised, with some of the details of the 55/1.8 Auto-Tak issues. This is the "condensed" version, but it may still be tiresomely over-detailed.

Pentax acknowledged, in the H3v/H1a manual, that 55/1.8 Auto-Taks with serial numbers below 462500 should not be used with those cameras, because of auto-diaphragm issues. For clarity's sake, note that the H3v is the same camera as the SV (different nomenclature in different markets).

My 55/1.8 Auto-Tak (serial #433625, concededly below the cutoff number in the manual), when fitted to my SV, would stop down normally, in auto mode, all the way down to f/16. But at f/4 and above, the camera's mirror would hang up when the shutter was fired. In light of the manual's statement, one would expect to encounter a problem here.

However, when it was tested on another body - an S3 - the same lens exhibited a different problem. It would not stop down below ~f/5.6, even when the aperture ring was set to a smaller stop. This behavior occurred only with the lens in auto mode, with the aperture tested by firing the shutter; in manual mode, the lens stopped down normally.

Not to rehash the entire diagnostic process: the issues seemed, ultimately, to be attributable largely to the behavior of the auto-aperture pin, with the protrusion of the rear element also a possible contributing factor.

The operation of the lens's stop-down pin is worth describing in some detail. On other automatic Takumars the pin can be fully depressed, irrespective of the f-stop selected. At f/16, the pin needs all of its travel to stop down the lens; at f/5.6, it needs roughly half its travel to stop down the lens...but the pin can still be pushed all the way down. At full aperture, the pin doesn't do anything...but, again, it can still be pushed all the way down. On the Auto-Tak, this isn't so. The pin absolutely stops at the point where the lens is stopped down to the set aperture: no further travel at all. At full aperture, the pin is immovable. This is true even in manual mode; at full aperture, the pin doesn't move. (This seems to suggest that the auto-actuator "modifications and improvements" Pentax called out in the H3v manual may actually have come online, as a running change, during the production run of the S3.)

My own notes suggest that the lens also misbehaved when fitted to a Spotmatic (sorry, I don't have any additional details), but worked perfectly on an SL.

Please note that other users, at the time of the original discussion, tested these lens/camera combinations, and found that some 55/1.8 Auto-Taks with serial numbers lower than mine did not exhibit these problematic behaviors. So the Pentax manual's statement, while acknowledging the existence of a possible problem, cannot be taken as entirely authoritative.

Apologies, again, for the excess detail. I think, when all is said and done, the safe inference is that the 55/1.8 Auto-Taks, especially examples below the serial-number cutoff, can manifest operational problems on a range of bodies. Not an issue for folks like me, who have moved on to digital; but still a possible concern for film shooters.

All this stuff gave me a headache at the time, and I have discovered that it still gives me a headache today.

Hope there's something helpful in all of that!

Cheers,

Jon