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24mm: Leica or Zeiss ?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: 24mm: Leica or Zeiss ? Reply with quote
I could find use for a wide MF lens.

My candidates seem to be:
Leica Elmarit R 24mm f/2.8
and
Contax Zeiss 25mm f/2.8

Prices seems comparable.
I love Contax, but I have never used a Leica lens...
Which one would you go for?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Go for the Zeiss lens.
The Elmarit-R 2.8/24 is considered to be one of the weakest Leitz lens by Leica enthusiasts.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor: But the same applies for the Distagon... even the new recalculation still have worse corners on FF than other Distagons according to many users. Maybe expectations for this not-extremely-wide primes are too high or this focal length isn't priority for manufacturers...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can't use the R 24/2.8 on a 5d2 as the mirror strikes the lens when focused near infinity, so it's not a real option anyway.

However the R 24/2.8 is fine on crop bodies.

JJ


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you guys!

As usual, it seems I am going to retarget to a much more expensive item...
Probably the Zeiss 21mm. ZE or Contax??

Decisions, decisions, decisions...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Olympus lenses are very cheap but perform well. Try one of the OM 24's. If you're not happy you won't have lost much money.

JJ


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have published a couple of years ago, a thread with pictures that prove that with the MM version of the Distagon 25, the weak corners are just a tale.
Search for it, maybe it will come up.

A cheaper alternative to the Distagon 25 is the excellent Yashica ML 24.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:
Thank you guys!

As usual, it seems I am going to retarget to a much more expensive item...
Probably the Zeiss 21mm. ZE or Contax??

Decisions, decisions, decisions...


They seem to be selling at about the same price used, but the MTF shows the newer version to be better? Photozone has test the ZE in FF, you have probably seen it, I am not sure if LoCA is a problem for 21 though...


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 24 mm isn't a focal that I like very much. But I saw nice pics taken with the minolta MC 24, and with the olympus 24.

Rino.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 24mm: Leica or Zeiss ? Reply with quote
nkanellopoulos wrote:

My candidates seem to be:
Leica Elmarit R 24mm f/2.8
and
Contax Zeiss 25mm f/2.8

My replying may seem odd, as I have experience of neither lens, but I'd heard by repute on the (now defunct) Contax mailing list, from Contaxians whose judgement I'd learned to respect, that the D25 was one of the weaker focal lengths in the Distagon line. I'd intended to have one anyway, until I happened upon the Yashica 24mm ML, whose performance was good enough to stop me looking for a D25. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity of a D25 at a good price, since I'd also heard that the D35 wasn't stellar, yet the D35 rapidly became my favourite Contax lens by a long chalk. But the YML 24 is no slouch.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok, the thread was not my thread in fact, it was poilu's thread, but my images are in there, have a look if you want, there are 100% crops of the centre and of the corners:

http://forum.mflenses.com/zuiko-242-8-vs-distagon-252-8-t16373,highlight,distagon++++corners.html

Perhaps we should put this in the FAQ, considering how many people raise this issue which is in fact (with the MM version of the lens) non-existent.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Ok, the thread was not my thread in fact, it was poilu's thread, but my images are in there, have a look if you want, there are 100% crops of the centre and of the corners:

http://forum.mflenses.com/zuiko-242-8-vs-distagon-252-8-t16373,highlight,distagon++++corners.html

Perhaps we should put this in the FAQ, considering how many people raise this issue which is in fact (with the MM version of the lens) non-existent.


Ah, but that comparison isn't very valid, as a single-coated Zuiko has been used. Try getting a later, NMC version (that says "Zuiko" and not "H.Zuiko" or "MC Zuiko"), and it'll run nose to nose with Yashica ML 24/2.8. The Zeiss will still have more contrast and sharpness in the middle, but the Zuiko will be more even across the frame.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aoleg wrote:
Orio wrote:
Ok, the thread was not my thread in fact, it was poilu's thread, but my images are in there, have a look if you want, there are 100% crops of the centre and of the corners:

http://forum.mflenses.com/zuiko-242-8-vs-distagon-252-8-t16373,highlight,distagon++++corners.html

Perhaps we should put this in the FAQ, considering how many people raise this issue which is in fact (with the MM version of the lens) non-existent.


Ah, but that comparison isn't very valid, as a single-coated Zuiko has been used. Try getting a later, NMC version (that says "Zuiko" and not "H.Zuiko" or "MC Zuiko"), and it'll run nose to nose with Yashica ML 24/2.8. The Zeiss will still have more contrast and sharpness in the middle, but the Zuiko will be more even across the frame.


Aoleg, I wasn't talking of the comparison with the Zuiko, I was refering only to the pictures I posted about the supposed corner problem in my Distagon 25 MM.
I think that it's funny how many people in the various forums give the corner problem in the Distagon 25 for granted without thinking of verifying that with pictures. I have had both versions of the Distagon 25, and while yes, the corners were weak in the AE version, they are ok in the MM version. If I still had the AE I would post a comparison series, but unfortunately I sold it (which I have regretted somehow). The MM version of Distagon 25 is one of the few lenses that Zeiss itself confirmed to have improved for the MM release. I can not speak on the Z version because I don't have it and I only evaluate lenses that I own or have used for some time. The Zeiss MTF for the Z lens show curves that are slightly better than the Contax version. This however needs to be verified first hand on a real copy.
-


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe it's simpler if I copy the images directly here.
Note that the camera is a 5D (full frame), so what you see are the real lens' corners:



this is a 100% crop of center:


this is a 100% crop of top left corner:


and a 100% crop of top right corner:


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
LucisPictor: But the same applies for the Distagon... even the new recalculation still have worse corners on FF than other Distagons according to many users.


If you are talking about the ZF 25/2.8, that one is very sharp in the corners at infinity. Test charts shot at close distance will be unsharp because of field curvature.

About the Contax 25/2.8 I have also read it's reputed to be weak in the corners, but I have seen results from a landscape photographers proving otherwise. I think this lens may be worth a shot. The MTF doesn't look much worse than the 28/2.8. You'll often want to stop down beyond f/5.6 anyway, which will improve the corners.

@Orio: That looks very good.

Personally I've been interested in the D25, but put off by the price difference between it and the D28. I would pay 250 euros maximum for a D28, but most D25's are at least 100 euros more than that...


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another lens that should be considered is the Nikkor 2.8/24.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Another lens that should be considered is the Nikkor 2.8/24.

Why not...
AI or AI-S?
I think the AI has a longer focus throw but the AI-S is newer.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why not the Rokkor 24mm? the Rokkor and the Leica are the same lens, but the Rokkor costs much less

I have the Rokkor and the lens is sharp at all apertures


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ivan Lee wrote:
Why not the Rokkor 24mm? the Rokkor and the Leica are the same lens, but the Rokkor costs much less

I have the Rokkor and the lens is sharp at all apertures


Because it needs mount conversion to work on a 5D(mk2).

By the way, Nikos, if you're really considering the ZE 21, that will definitely be the one that will give the most dramatic pictures. Maybe the most unique lens in the whole Z* line. Of course it's a bit wider than 24mm, but different enough from your TS-E 17 I would say.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 for the Nikon 24/2.8 AiS Cool


PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
AhamB wrote:
no-X wrote:
LucisPictor: But the same applies for the Distagon... even the new recalculation still have worse corners on FF than other Distagons according to many users.


If you are talking about the ZF 25/2.8, that one is very sharp in the corners at infinity. Test charts shot at close distance will be unsharp because of field curvature.

I own the Z-line model. I can't say anything about FF performance, but corners on 1.7 crop are somewhat less sharp than center.

I use a Sigma SD14 camera with 1.7 crop - I compared it to Sigma DP2 results (1.7 crop compact camera with the same sensor and fixed 24/2.8 lens) and the DP2 lens has better corners than the Distagon on SD14. Anyway, Distagon has very nice close-up/macro capability.
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