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Nikos
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 1077 Location: Greece
Expire: 2015-01-02
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: 24mm: Leica or Zeiss ? |
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Nikos wrote:
I could find use for a wide MF lens.
My candidates seem to be:
Leica Elmarit R 24mm f/2.8
and
Contax Zeiss 25mm f/2.8
Prices seems comparable.
I love Contax, but I have never used a Leica lens...
Which one would you go for? _________________ Νίκος • www.diafragma.gr
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Sony α7R, Sony NEX-5N
MF lenses:
SLR:
Canon TS-E 17mm f/4, Zeiss 2.8/21 ZE, Zeiss 2/28 Contax, Zeiss 2/35 ZE, Zeiss 1.4/50 Contax, Zeiss 1.4/85 Contax, Zeiss Makro 2/100 ZE,
Zeiss 2/135 Contax, Zeiss 2.8/135 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 35-70 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 100-300 Contax, Zeiss F-Distagon Rollei, Canon FD 24mm f2, Minolta MD Rokkor 35mm f2.8
Rangefinder:
Zeiss 4.5/21 C Biogon ZM, Zeiss 2/35 Biogon ZM, Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar L39, Leica Tele-Elmarit 2.8/90mm, Zeiss 2/45 Contax G, Zeiss 2.8/90 Contax G, Canon 50mm 1.8 LTM
AF lenses: Canon 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, Canon 70-200 f/4 L, Canon 300 f/4 L IS, Canon 100 f/2.8 macro
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Go for the Zeiss lens.
The Elmarit-R 2.8/24 is considered to be one of the weakest Leitz lens by Leica enthusiasts. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
LucisPictor: But the same applies for the Distagon... even the new recalculation still have worse corners on FF than other Distagons according to many users. Maybe expectations for this not-extremely-wide primes are too high or this focal length isn't priority for manufacturers... _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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jjphoto
Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 414
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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jjphoto wrote:
You can't use the R 24/2.8 on a 5d2 as the mirror strikes the lens when focused near infinity, so it's not a real option anyway.
However the R 24/2.8 is fine on crop bodies.
JJ |
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Nikos
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 1077 Location: Greece
Expire: 2015-01-02
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Nikos wrote:
Thank you guys!
As usual, it seems I am going to retarget to a much more expensive item...
Probably the Zeiss 21mm. ZE or Contax??
Decisions, decisions, decisions... _________________ Νίκος • www.diafragma.gr
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Sony α7R, Sony NEX-5N
MF lenses:
SLR:
Canon TS-E 17mm f/4, Zeiss 2.8/21 ZE, Zeiss 2/28 Contax, Zeiss 2/35 ZE, Zeiss 1.4/50 Contax, Zeiss 1.4/85 Contax, Zeiss Makro 2/100 ZE,
Zeiss 2/135 Contax, Zeiss 2.8/135 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 35-70 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 100-300 Contax, Zeiss F-Distagon Rollei, Canon FD 24mm f2, Minolta MD Rokkor 35mm f2.8
Rangefinder:
Zeiss 4.5/21 C Biogon ZM, Zeiss 2/35 Biogon ZM, Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar L39, Leica Tele-Elmarit 2.8/90mm, Zeiss 2/45 Contax G, Zeiss 2.8/90 Contax G, Canon 50mm 1.8 LTM
AF lenses: Canon 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, Canon 70-200 f/4 L, Canon 300 f/4 L IS, Canon 100 f/2.8 macro
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jjphoto
Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Posts: 414
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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jjphoto wrote:
Olympus lenses are very cheap but perform well. Try one of the OM 24's. If you're not happy you won't have lost much money.
JJ |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I have published a couple of years ago, a thread with pictures that prove that with the MM version of the Distagon 25, the weak corners are just a tale.
Search for it, maybe it will come up.
A cheaper alternative to the Distagon 25 is the excellent Yashica ML 24. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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aleksanderpolo
Joined: 24 Jan 2010 Posts: 684
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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aleksanderpolo wrote:
nkanellopoulos wrote: |
Thank you guys!
As usual, it seems I am going to retarget to a much more expensive item...
Probably the Zeiss 21mm. ZE or Contax??
Decisions, decisions, decisions... |
They seem to be selling at about the same price used, but the MTF shows the newer version to be better? Photozone has test the ZE in FF, you have probably seen it, I am not sure if LoCA is a problem for 21 though... |
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estudleon
Joined: 15 May 2008 Posts: 3754 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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estudleon wrote:
The 24 mm isn't a focal that I like very much. But I saw nice pics taken with the minolta MC 24, and with the olympus 24.
Rino. _________________ Konica 2,8/100
CZJ: 4/20, 2,4/35, 1,8/50 aus jena, 3,5/135MC, Pentacon 1,8/50
Pentax S-M-C-1,4/50
Helios 44-3
Mamiya 2,8/135
Misc. : jupiter 9
Stuff used:
A) SRL
Alpa 10 D - kern macro Switar 1,9/50 -black, Kilffit apochromat 2/100.
Asahi pentax spotmatic super takumar 1,4/50
Contaflex super B tessar 2,8/50 Pro-tessar 115
Leica R3 electronic summicron 2/50 elmarit 2,8/35
Konica Autoreflex 3 (2 black and chrome one), TC, T4. 2,8/24, 3,5/28 not MC and MC, 1,8/40, 1,4/50, 1,7/50 MC and not MC, 1,8/85, 3,2/135, 3,5/135, 4/200
Minolta XG9 2,8/35, 2/45, 3,5/135
Nikkormat FTn 1,4/50, 2,8/135
Fujica ST 801, 605, 705n. 3,5/19, 1,4/50, 1,8/55, 4/85, 3,5/135.
Praktica MTL 5 and a lot of M42 lenses.
Voigtlander. Bessamatic m, bessamatix de luxe, bessamatic cs, ultramatic and ultramatic cs.
Skoparex 3,5/35, skopagon 2/40, skopar 2,8/50, skopar X 2,8/50, super lanthar (out of catalogue) 2,8/50, dinarex 3,4/90, dinarex 4,8/100, super dinarex 4/135, super dinarex 4/200, zoomar 2,8/36-83, portrait lens 0, 1 and 2. Curtagon 4/28 and 2,8/35
Canon AV1, 1,8/50
Rolleiflex SL35 and SL35 E. 2,8/35 angulon, 2,8/35 distagon, 1,4/55 rolleinar, 1,8/50 planar, 4/135 tessar, 2,8/135 rolleinar, x2 rollei, M42 to rollei adap.
Etc.
RF
Yashica Minister III
Voightlander Vito, vitomatic I, Vito C, etc.
Leica M. M2, M3 (d.s.) and M4. Schenider 3,4/21, 2/35 summaron 2,8/35 (with eyes). Summicron 2/35 (8 elements with eyes), 2/35 chrome, 2/35 black, 1,4/35 pre asph and aspheric - old -, 2/40 summicron, 2,8/50 elmar, 2/50 7 elements, 2/50 DR, 2/50 - minolta version, 1,4/50 summilux 1966 version, 1,4/75 summilux, 2/90 large version, 2/90 reduced version of 1987, 2,8/90 elmarit large version, 4/135 elmar. |
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alex
Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 561 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: 24mm: Leica or Zeiss ? |
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alex wrote:
nkanellopoulos wrote: |
My candidates seem to be:
Leica Elmarit R 24mm f/2.8
and
Contax Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 |
My replying may seem odd, as I have experience of neither lens, but I'd heard by repute on the (now defunct) Contax mailing list, from Contaxians whose judgement I'd learned to respect, that the D25 was one of the weaker focal lengths in the Distagon line. I'd intended to have one anyway, until I happened upon the Yashica 24mm ML, whose performance was good enough to stop me looking for a D25. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity of a D25 at a good price, since I'd also heard that the D35 wasn't stellar, yet the D35 rapidly became my favourite Contax lens by a long chalk. But the YML 24 is no slouch. _________________ Alex |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Ok, the thread was not my thread in fact, it was poilu's thread, but my images are in there, have a look if you want, there are 100% crops of the centre and of the corners:
http://forum.mflenses.com/zuiko-242-8-vs-distagon-252-8-t16373,highlight,distagon++++corners.html
Perhaps we should put this in the FAQ, considering how many people raise this issue which is in fact (with the MM version of the lens) non-existent. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1387 Location: Berlin, DE
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
Ah, but that comparison isn't very valid, as a single-coated Zuiko has been used. Try getting a later, NMC version (that says "Zuiko" and not "H.Zuiko" or "MC Zuiko"), and it'll run nose to nose with Yashica ML 24/2.8. The Zeiss will still have more contrast and sharpness in the middle, but the Zuiko will be more even across the frame. _________________ List of lenses |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
aoleg wrote: |
Ah, but that comparison isn't very valid, as a single-coated Zuiko has been used. Try getting a later, NMC version (that says "Zuiko" and not "H.Zuiko" or "MC Zuiko"), and it'll run nose to nose with Yashica ML 24/2.8. The Zeiss will still have more contrast and sharpness in the middle, but the Zuiko will be more even across the frame. |
Aoleg, I wasn't talking of the comparison with the Zuiko, I was refering only to the pictures I posted about the supposed corner problem in my Distagon 25 MM.
I think that it's funny how many people in the various forums give the corner problem in the Distagon 25 for granted without thinking of verifying that with pictures. I have had both versions of the Distagon 25, and while yes, the corners were weak in the AE version, they are ok in the MM version. If I still had the AE I would post a comparison series, but unfortunately I sold it (which I have regretted somehow). The MM version of Distagon 25 is one of the few lenses that Zeiss itself confirmed to have improved for the MM release. I can not speak on the Z version because I don't have it and I only evaluate lenses that I own or have used for some time. The Zeiss MTF for the Z lens show curves that are slightly better than the Contax version. This however needs to be verified first hand on a real copy.
- _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Maybe it's simpler if I copy the images directly here.
Note that the camera is a 5D (full frame), so what you see are the real lens' corners:
this is a 100% crop of center:
this is a 100% crop of top left corner:
and a 100% crop of top right corner:
_________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
no-X wrote: |
LucisPictor: But the same applies for the Distagon... even the new recalculation still have worse corners on FF than other Distagons according to many users. |
If you are talking about the ZF 25/2.8, that one is very sharp in the corners at infinity. Test charts shot at close distance will be unsharp because of field curvature.
About the Contax 25/2.8 I have also read it's reputed to be weak in the corners, but I have seen results from a landscape photographers proving otherwise. I think this lens may be worth a shot. The MTF doesn't look much worse than the 28/2.8. You'll often want to stop down beyond f/5.6 anyway, which will improve the corners.
@Orio: That looks very good.
Personally I've been interested in the D25, but put off by the price difference between it and the D28. I would pay 250 euros maximum for a D28, but most D25's are at least 100 euros more than that... |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Another lens that should be considered is the Nikkor 2.8/24. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Nikos
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 1077 Location: Greece
Expire: 2015-01-02
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nikos wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Another lens that should be considered is the Nikkor 2.8/24. |
Why not...
AI or AI-S?
I think the AI has a longer focus throw but the AI-S is newer. _________________ Νίκος • www.diafragma.gr
Cameras: Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Sony α7R, Sony NEX-5N
MF lenses:
SLR:
Canon TS-E 17mm f/4, Zeiss 2.8/21 ZE, Zeiss 2/28 Contax, Zeiss 2/35 ZE, Zeiss 1.4/50 Contax, Zeiss 1.4/85 Contax, Zeiss Makro 2/100 ZE,
Zeiss 2/135 Contax, Zeiss 2.8/135 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 35-70 Contax, Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 100-300 Contax, Zeiss F-Distagon Rollei, Canon FD 24mm f2, Minolta MD Rokkor 35mm f2.8
Rangefinder:
Zeiss 4.5/21 C Biogon ZM, Zeiss 2/35 Biogon ZM, Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Heliar L39, Leica Tele-Elmarit 2.8/90mm, Zeiss 2/45 Contax G, Zeiss 2.8/90 Contax G, Canon 50mm 1.8 LTM
AF lenses: Canon 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye, Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, Canon 70-200 f/4 L, Canon 300 f/4 L IS, Canon 100 f/2.8 macro
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Ivan Lee
Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 230 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Ivan Lee wrote:
Why not the Rokkor 24mm? the Rokkor and the Leica are the same lens, but the Rokkor costs much less
I have the Rokkor and the lens is sharp at all apertures _________________ Ivan Lee Barcellos - Director of Photography
www.planoconjunto.com.br
Sony A7s
Lumix GH3
Minolta MC: Minolta MC 24/2.8 - Minolta MD 28/2 - Minolta MC 35/1.8 - Minolta MC 35/2.8 - Minolta MD 50/1.2 - Minolta MD Macro 50/3.5 - Minolta MD 100/2.5
Konica AR: Hexanon 28/3.5 - Hexanon 50/1.7 - Hexanon 57/1.4
M42: Industar 50-2 - CZ Pancolar 50/1.8
Olympus OM: Zuiko Auto-Macro 50/3.5 - Vivitar 28/2 Close Focus |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
Ivan Lee wrote: |
Why not the Rokkor 24mm? the Rokkor and the Leica are the same lens, but the Rokkor costs much less
I have the Rokkor and the lens is sharp at all apertures |
Because it needs mount conversion to work on a 5D(mk2).
By the way, Nikos, if you're really considering the ZE 21, that will definitely be the one that will give the most dramatic pictures. Maybe the most unique lens in the whole Z* line. Of course it's a bit wider than 24mm, but different enough from your TS-E 17 I would say. |
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ManualFocus-G
Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Posts: 6622 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-11-24
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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ManualFocus-G wrote:
+1 for the Nikon 24/2.8 AiS _________________ Graham - Moderator
Shooter of choice: Fujifilm X-T20 with M42, PB and C/Y lenses
See my Flickr photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/manualfocus-g |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 2495 Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
AhamB wrote: |
no-X wrote: |
LucisPictor: But the same applies for the Distagon... even the new recalculation still have worse corners on FF than other Distagons according to many users. |
If you are talking about the ZF 25/2.8, that one is very sharp in the corners at infinity. Test charts shot at close distance will be unsharp because of field curvature. |
I own the Z-line model. I can't say anything about FF performance, but corners on 1.7 crop are somewhat less sharp than center.
I use a Sigma SD14 camera with 1.7 crop - I compared it to Sigma DP2 results (1.7 crop compact camera with the same sensor and fixed 24/2.8 lens) and the DP2 lens has better corners than the Distagon on SD14. Anyway, Distagon has very nice close-up/macro capability. _________________ (almost) complete list of Helios lenses |
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