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Legionaries and Dacians (ZS Planar 1.4/50)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:14 am    Post subject: Legionaries and Dacians (ZS Planar 1.4/50) Reply with quote
I finally had a chance to put the new ZS Planar 1.4/50 through it's paces.
The results are far better than I hoped and I could already feel it while I was shooting. I was headed for some 3D and I think I got some.
Of course I can not speak for all Z reflex lenses as I only own this one - but judging from this 1.4/50, it does not lose the head to head with the Contax lens. This is not to say they are the same: they are quite different. It feels like you are using a different lens (if you are used to the Contax). And yet it's different but it's euqally good, just in a different "language", so to say.

Camera is 5DMkII:

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I got image clarity (without the need of the infamous Lightroom button...) and 3D and I see great ability in rendering difficult surfaces like polished metal. Good detail in the shadows. CA is minimal and never a problem. My final verdict on the lens is that I am happy with the purchase.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Those are some fine re-enactment outfits those fellow have put together. The Dacians look tough, but I reckon they'd fall to the better armed, better-armored legionaires
Good reportage, whatever lens you were using ...


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great reportage, and the lens seems at least to say goood.

I prefer the Dacians ones , especially the first they seem more alert ^^ and you can't be wrong when you're buying a Dacia ... hmm well

Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice captures Orio, I see plenty of 3D in all of them. The Planar landed in right hands. At which aperture did you shoot?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I definitely see some 3D in the photos, great results! You really nailed the sharpness on all of them. However, I don't really like the pictures in portrait mode, but that's more because our small monitors don't show portrait-mode pictures very well.

Also nice to see the Legio X Gemina; this legion was stationed at the northernmost border of the Roman Empire, in what's now the Dutch city of Nijmegen (Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum). In fact, I have somewhere in my attic a Roman roof tile stamped with "LXG", i.e. made by/for the Legio X Gemina.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fish4570 wrote:
Those are some fine re-enactment outfits those fellow have put together. The Dacians look tough, but I reckon they'd fall to the better armed, better-armored legionaires


Dacians were always a pain in the neck for Romans, especially after Adrianus's strategical mistake of not keeping troops in the Moldavian territtories that were conquered by his predecessor Traianus.

Quote:
and you can't be wrong when you're buying a Dacia ... hmm well


When the Romans first met the Dacians, they were not prepared for a combat against the Dacian Scythe, and suffered a heavy loss with many deaths. Dacians did combat in units of three: the two on the sides used the scythe to lift the shields of two Roman soldiers in the row, and the third one in the middle lowered on his knees and killed them from below. The lenght of the scythe allowed them to do that without being reached by the short Roman Gladium - and ironically, the lifted Roman shields acted as a protection for the middle Dacian.
After the first event, however, the Romans, who were very good in learning tricks and weapons from the other armies, adapter their combat style to the Dacian Scythe, too.

BRunner wrote:
Nice captures Orio, I see plenty of 3D in all of them. The Planar landed in right hands. At which aperture did you shoot?


Thanks. I take most of my shots between f/2.8 and f/5.6. Occasionally there could be a f/2 shot. I don't use f/1.4 with this lens except for portraits or low light. This because in the sunlight, the highlights do flare a bit (which may be good for portraits but not for everything else)

Spotmatic wrote:
I definitely see some 3D in the photos, great results! You really nailed the sharpness on all of them. However, I don't really like the pictures in portrait mode, but that's more because our small monitors don't show portrait-mode pictures very well.


yeah, I know what you mean. I always think I should make the verticals as large as the horizontals, but then it would be impossible to see them as a whole...

Spotmatic wrote:

Also nice to see the Legio X Gemina; this legion was stationed at the northernmost border of the Roman Empire, in what's now the Dutch city of Nijmegen (Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum). In fact, I have somewhere in my attic a Roman roof tile stamped with "LXG", i.e. made by/for the Legio X Gemina.


That's cool. I love those "souvenirs". I have a Roman bronze door knocker that was found in an archeological site just outside my hometown. It represents a Medusa, with snakes in her hair. Smile


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very nice.

You seem to have an awful lot of historical pageants where you are.

The Tenth was Caesar's favourite legion. I'm sure he'd be happy to see it is still going.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
PaulC wrote:
Very nice.
You seem to have an awful lot of historical pageants where you are.


Yes, there are quite a few, but it's also me who travels to them Smile

PaulC wrote:
The Tenth was Caesar's favourite legion. I'm sure he'd be happy to see it is still going.


There are some groups that revive legions. This is the site of Legio Decima Gemina:
http://www.legiodecima.it/
Here's Legio I Italica:
http://www.legio-i-italica.it/
And Legio VI Ferrata:
http://www.legiosestaferrata.eu/Legiosestaferrata/home.html
There are others also, but these are the most active here in the north.

We also have many Celtic revival groups here in what used to be the "Gallia cisalpina". Here's a few:
http://www.adui.loman.it/
http://www.anticaquercia.com/
http://www.bibrax.org/
http://www.lingones.com/
http://www.nemetonruis.com/


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:

That's cool. I love those "souvenirs". I have a Roman bronze door knocker that was found in an archeological site just outside my hometown. It represents a Medusa, with snakes in her hair. Smile


Speaking about cool! Smile

I used to help at (official) excavations in my spare time. Most of these excavations were of Roman-era German settlements. I still remember this figurine of a bronze boar:

http://www.liemersverleden.nl/archeologie/didam/romeinsetijd/kollenburg/vondsten/pics/everzwijn_groot.jpg


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spotmatic wrote:

I used to help at (official) excavations in my spare time. Most of these excavations were of Roman-era German settlements. I still remember this figurine of a bronze boar:
http://www.liemersverleden.nl/archeologie/didam/romeinsetijd/kollenburg/vondsten/pics/everzwijn_groot.jpg


wow... beautiful !!!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
great series! the 3D is definitely there, the diffused light with soft shadows seems to make the magics
the 9 blades of the ZS render a beautiful background!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree, beautiful pics and nice historical info. thx for sharing, Orio! Smile


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wonderful series as usual, Orio. That looks like a stunning new acquisition - jealousy Twisted Evil Twisted Evil



patrickh


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
***The Tenth was Caesar's favourite legion. I'm sure he'd be happy to see it is still going.***

....but I read the toughest were the Ninth, they supposed to have disappeared in Britain fighting the Scots/Picts.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173299/Legion-Damned-Did-Boudiccas-curse-cause-6-000-Romes-fiercest-warriors-vanish-trace.html


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:

....but I read the toughest were the Ninth, they supposed to have disappeared in Britain fighting the Scots/Picts.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173299/Legion-Damned-Did-Boudiccas-curse-cause-6-000-Romes-fiercest-warriors-vanish-trace.html


I don't believe in sorcerers and curses Wink
The 9th legion was probably dismissed in 120 aC and rebuild in 122 aC at the Rhein river in today's Germany to guard the borders with Saxons; at least, this is the last documented location of the 9th legion that we know of. Single commanders were later mentioned as present somewhere in the Middle East, but no evidence that the 9th was there with them.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio, your thread inspired me to do some reading on the Dacians. They never were wholly beaten, but never were they wholly tamed, either. All in all, a tough, smart, resilient people.
Thanks ...


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Excalibur wrote:

....but I read the toughest were the Ninth, they supposed to have disappeared in Britain fighting the Scots/Picts.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173299/Legion-Damned-Did-Boudiccas-curse-cause-6-000-Romes-fiercest-warriors-vanish-trace.html


I don't believe in sorcerers and curses Wink
The 9th legion was probably dismissed in 120 aC and rebuild in 122 aC at the Rhein river in today's Germany to guard the borders with Saxons; at least, this is the last documented location of the 9th legion that we know of. Single commanders were later mentioned as present somewhere in the Middle East, but no evidence that the 9th was there with them.


Oh well you are going to know your own history better than me, but I've always been interested in Romans and the Spartans....and IIRC the Roman helmet was made stronger because of the Dacian curved weapon.
Oh and forgot I'm a great fan of your excellent shots.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for your link, too, Excalibur ...


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fish4570 wrote:
Orio, your thread inspired me to do some reading on the Dacians. They never were wholly beaten, but never were they wholly tamed, either. All in all, a tough, smart, resilient people.
Thanks ...


You're welcome.
You are correct, like I wrote, Dacians were always a pain in the neck for Romans, because of their military organization, superior to that of most other tribes of the time, and because of their geographic position.
If you look at the map:



you can see that after the Carpatians, the big Ukrainian plain is open for thousands of miles. Romans were aware of that and never tried to go beyond the Carpatians, because new conquests would have been undefendable on that huge plain.
So Dacians were never wholly won also because they were never wholly engaged on that open land. Traianus did conquer today's Moldavia but Adrianus gave it up soon after. If Adrianus kept the borders there, with the Carpatians on the back, Rome's oriental border could have probably lasted a little longer (but not much).
However, it is not true that Dacians refused any socializations with the Romans. On the contrary, the Dacians residing in today's Romania did integrate pretty well with the Roman empire, and ultimately became Roman citizens. They integrated so well, in fact, that today's Romanian language is considered a Romanic language - and is in fact very different from the Slavic and Germanic languages of the other regions around Romania.
At the time of the Huns invasion, the Dacians fought for the Roman empire to defend the land - and lost. But at the time, the Roman Army had already become a joke. No training, no discipline, no more military culture, not even the legions formation: they went back to fighting single man to single man. They lost all military organization and became like any other tribes' army.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like every country in Europe, the UK is also still finding mass graves and ancient buildings, and with DNA (and minerals in bones) can now trace where many people come from to a few miles in the Uk and from countries co-operating in research in mainland Europe......from skeletons

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1192353/Mass-war-grave-50-headless-bodies-Olympics-site.html


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I could eat lively history like this for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I knew that today's Romania had been well-Romanized for centuries; hence Romanian language being so close to Italian, but I did not know of Dacian connection.
Thanks for the map ...


PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
the Roman helmet was made stronger because of the Dacian curved weapon.


Yes. Romans were very quick in copying the military inventions of the other armies that could be useful for them.
For instance, before facing the Celts in Gallia Cisalpina (that is here, where I am), Romans did only use pressed wool and leather protections in their body armors. Pressed wool was effective to stop tip sword shots, but was uneffective against side shots. Celts instead used the coat of mail.
Coat of mail easily is broken by tip sword shots, but is very resistant against side shots. When Romans realized that, they copied the tool, and added it to their armor.
This is just one example, I could go on forever, Roman helmets for instance were continuously updated to implement new and better protection that they saw used by the enemy armies that they faced.
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