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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 4045
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: Killing a lens for experimental purposes? |
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Spotmatic wrote:
Like many of you I have more than my fair share of unsellable Prakticas with Pentacon 50/1.8 lenses. So I thought it would be a nice test to see how the picture quality degrades when the lens will be gradually more mutilated. Let's start with, say, a large coating mark right through the front element, after that a large, deep scratch, ending with a totally smashed front element. After this exercise I will do the same, but this time with the back element. Maybe this will help assuring buyers that not only the minty lenses are worth buying. 
Or... will I be banned forever now? 
_________________
Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1767
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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ChrisLilley wrote:
Make sure you capture all of this on video, too. YouTube needs you!
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ai'ed, AiS
Camera: Nikon D90, D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, AI'ed | N.K. Nikkor-N 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor-N.C 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | ЛЗОС (LZOS) Юпитер-9 (Jupiter-9) 85mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL | Nikkor-P 105mm f/2.5 pre-Ai, Ai'ed | Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 | Schneider Kreuznach Componon 105mm f/5.6 | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED AiS | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list) |
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Spotmatic
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 4045
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Spotmatic wrote:
| ChrisLilley wrote: |
| Make sure you capture all of this on video, too. YouTube needs you! |
LOL, yes, I forgot that we live in the Youtube age now 
_________________
Peter - Moderator
Pentax K-5 + Pentax 645 + Canon 5D + Bessa RF 10,5cm Heliar, and a 'little' bag full of MF lenses. The lens list is * here *.
My fast 80s: Asahi-Kogaku Takumar 83mm f/1.9 - Super-Takumar 85mm f/1.9 - FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited - Cyclop 85/1.5 (Helios-40 innards) - Komura 80mm f/1.8 - Meyer Görlitz Primoplan 7,5cm 1:1.9 - Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar - Canon 85mm f/1.8 S.S.C. - Canon 85mm f/1.2 S.S.C. Aspherical |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10472
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
this could be interesting
I found degradation appear with a sample UV filter
Maybe I should try a scratched UV filter
or even better, a UV filter without front element |
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Jieffe
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 754
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Killing a lens for experimental purposes? |
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Jieffe wrote:
| Spotmatic wrote: |
| Or... will I be banned forever now? |
You just want to be hated more than the guy curing his yellowing takumar with a sledgehammer |
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F16SUNSHINE
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 5486
Location: Left Coast
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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F16SUNSHINE wrote:
Lens flaws and image quality decline vari so much it will be impossible to perform a truly meaningful test.
It would be better to offer the lens fir free to someone who needs him.
Poor little orphan lens. You were going to kill him 
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Laurence
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 4809
Location: Western Washington State
Expire: 2016-06-19
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Laurence wrote:
| poilu wrote: |
this could be interesting
I found degradation appear with a sample UV filter
Maybe I should try a scratched UV filter
or even better, a UV filter without front element |
or even better, a UV filter without front element
Thanks poilu! I just about choked on my vegetable soup....
_________________
Assent, and you are sane;
Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
And handled with a chain.
Emily Dickinson
Cameras and Lenses in Use:
Yashica Mat 124 w/ Yashinon 80/3.5,
CV Apo-Lanthar 90/3.5SL, (Thank you Klaus),
Pentax 645,
Flek 50,
Pentax-A 150
Pentax-A 120 Macro
Voigtlander Vitomatic I w/Color Skopar 50/2.8
Konica TC and zoom lenses (thanks Carsten)
Contax AX
Yashica ML 50/2
Yashica ML 35/2.8
Carl Zeiss Contax 50/1.4
Tamron Adaptall SP 17/3.5
Tamron Adaptall 28/2.5
Tamron Adaptall SP 300/2.8 LD (IF)
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Don't do it.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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mflex-on
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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mflex-on wrote:
Keep it original. Attila needs the lens for his forthcoming lens museum |
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supahmario
Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 615
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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supahmario wrote:
you can even try out whether removing the grease from the screw channel has an effect on IQ!?
or even better:
paste a new caption over the old lens caption! try to name the pentacon "planar" and see how IQ is changing! perhaps you can also change the aperture number from "1.8" to "1.2" and watch if the lens is getting faster!?
btw: nice idea, spotmatic!
_________________
EOS 5D, EOS 30
Leica-R: Summicron 2/50
QBM: Distagon 2.8/35
PK: Tokina 3.5/17, Porst 1.2/55
M42: S-M-C Takumar 3.5/24, S-M-C Takumar 1.8/55, CZJ MC Sonnar 3.5/135, Jupiter 21M 4/200
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I submit a suitable candidate:
http://tinyurl.com/yjsn24b
-
_________________
Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Bruce
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 842
Location: Boston, Ma USA
Expire: 2014-11-22
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce wrote:
I submit a suitable candidate:
_________________
Digital: Canon 40d & 5DmkII, Film: Hasselblad 203fe/Zeiss 80/2.8 cfe
Adapters for EOS: Cy; M42; Zenit39; Exakta; LeicaR; OlympusOM; PK; Nikon; Rollei35; Retina; Adaptal; P-6 |
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Mike Deep
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 323
Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Mike Deep wrote:
_________________
Rocket Launch Photography
Olympus: 24/2.8 MC, 28/3.5, 28/2.8 MC, 35/2.8, 50/3.5, 50/1.8 MC, 50/1.4 MC, 35-70/3.6, 75-150/4
Nikon: C 24/2.8, AI-S 28/2.8, K 35/2, K 35/2.8, F 55/3.5, C 55/1.2, AI 85/2, 105/2.5 (5/3), 105/2.5 (5/4), F 135/2.8, F 200/4, No. 5T
Pentax: 28/3.5, 35/3.5, 50/1.4 (8/6), 50/1.4 (7/6), M 50/1.4, SMC 55/1.8, 105/2.8, SMC 135/3.5, 150/4
Tamron: SP 17/3.5 151B, 28/2.5, 135/2.8 T-135, SP 300/2.8 60B, SP 35-80/2.8-3.8 01A, 80-210/3.8-4 103A, SP 1.4x TC 140F, SP 2x TC 01F
Vivitar: 24/2 (Kino), 28/2 (Kino), 50/1.4 (Cosina), S1 90/2.5 (Tokina), S1 28-80/2.8-3.5 (Kino), 70-150/3.8 (Kino), S1 70-210/3.5 (Kino), 2x Macro TC
Etc: Yashica 3.5cm/2.8, Fujinon 50/1.4, Yashica ML 50/1.4, Tomioka Yashinon 55/1.2, Mamiya/Sekor 55/1.7, Sigma 90/2.8
That's a lot of 50s. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
| Mike Deep wrote: |
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impressive "shot"...
_________________
Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 9096
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
Wow, that's one way to do it. So what was the victim?
_________________
Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/
Last edited by cooltouch on Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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greg
Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 683
Expire: 2012-12-03
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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greg wrote:
Arse In All can sell it ! Rare prototype lens used to test dispersion of lens fragments. Only used once ! IQ will not suffer ! |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 11059
Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:20 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
| Mike Deep wrote: |
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broken glass can be repaired using superglue.
_________________
☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX-A ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (151B), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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GrahamNR17
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 1855
Location: Norfolk, UK
Expire: 2012-09-06
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: |
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GrahamNR17 wrote:
NO! 
You bastards  |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1767
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: |
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ChrisLilley wrote:
| siriusdogstar wrote: |
| Mike Deep wrote: |
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broken glass can be repaired using superglue. |
Glass has some small scratches, but will not affect image quality at all!
I found this lens on a log in my father's estate and know nothing about cameras. No returns, sold as is, MINT condition. Rare.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ai'ed, AiS
Camera: Nikon D90, D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, AI'ed | N.K. Nikkor-N 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor-N.C 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | ЛЗОС (LZOS) Юпитер-9 (Jupiter-9) 85mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL | Nikkor-P 105mm f/2.5 pre-Ai, Ai'ed | Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 | Schneider Kreuznach Componon 105mm f/5.6 | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED AiS | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list) |
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larsr
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 272
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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larsr wrote:
Dust speckles, a few dents and cleaning marks don't mean the lens is unusable. Check this out:
http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.10.30/front-element-scratches
_________________
Lars
Bodies:
DSLR: Nikon D200
SLR: Nikon FA, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Zeiss Ikon Icarex 35TM
35mm: Voigtl�nder Vitoret
Nikkor MF
24/2.8K AI'd, 28/2.8 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 Micro, 35-70/3.5 AIS, 85/1.8K AI'd, 100/2.8 Series E, 105/2.5 AI, 105/2.5 AIS, 135/3.5 AI, Nikkor 180/2.8 ED AIS, 200/4-Q AI'd, 300/4.5-H AI'd
M42
Misc: Vivitar 28/2.5, Chinon 28/2.8, Cosina Auto Cosinon 50/1.8, Revue Auto Revuenon 50/1.8, Mamiya 50/2, Auto Flex 55/1.7, Cosina Cosinon 135/2.8 MC, Vivitar 135/2.8, Petri 200/3.5 CC Auto
Zeiss: Carl Zeiss (Ikon) Tessar 50/2.8, CZJ Tessar 50/2.8, CZJ Pancolar Electric 50/1.8 MC, CZJ Biotar 58/2 T, CZJ Sonnar MC S 135/3.5
Asahi-Pentax: SMC-Takumar 55/1.8, Super-Takumar 105/2.8, SMC-Takumar 135/3.5
USSR: Mir-1 37/2.8 (1958 GP), Helios 44-2 58/2
Pentacon/Meyer: Pentacon 29/2.8 MC, Pentacon 50/1.8 MC Electric, Meyer G�rlitz Oreston 50/1.8, Meyer G�rlitz Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 200/4
Nikkor AF
50/1.8 D, 60/2.8 Micro, 55-200/4-5.6 G VR, 70-300/4-5.6 ED, 18-70/3.5-4.5 G
Wantlist
Nikkor 105/1.8, Nikkor 135/2
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mflex-on
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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mflex-on wrote:
Front element scratches are easy going - real element makes trouble! |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Why don't you take a really worn lens for this experiment?
You can find lenses that have clean glass but suffer from really bad mechanics, stiff focus and the like. If you take a cheapo (such as a Pentaflex Auto-Color 1.8/50 or an on Helios-44 in such a poor condition you still can test on the detrioration of the optical performance.
| mflex-on wrote: |
| Front element scratches are easy going - real element makes trouble! |
Even then some lense are perfectly usable. I have got some lenses with clear cleaning marks at the rear element and they still perform excellently.
_________________
Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator 
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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ramiller500
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 124
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Killing a lens for experimental purposes |
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ramiller500 wrote:
This method is described as being for repair, but the protocol looks just right for achieving this experimenter's scientific goals:
http://www.hermes.net.au/bayling/repair.html
_________________
Sincerely,
Bob Miller |
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ramiller500
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 124
Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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ramiller500 wrote:
More seriously (?), we need to determine what level of rear element damage causes practical problems. Rear element paranoia may not be based too much in fact, even though it's plausible.
_________________
Sincerely,
Bob Miller |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
| ramiller500 wrote: |
| More seriously (?), we need to determine what level of rear element damage causes practical problems. Rear element paranoia may not be based too much in fact, even though it's plausible. |
I did test deep scratch on rare element was visible above F8.
Deep scratch on front element invisible at every aperture.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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