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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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 Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: The LTM Jupiter 9 on Pana G1 |
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csaba369 wrote:
Some testshot again, now only with jupiter9. All is ISO 100, all with 100% crop too.
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
#8
Have to add contrast and some sharpening.
Hope my pana tests not too boring for you, thank you for visiting!
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A lot of MF lenses, Panasonic G1, EOS 300V, Zorki 4, Kiev 4, Pentacon Six etc.
Last edited by csaba369 on Mon May 11, 2009 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Keep comming! I am so amazed!
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Really interesting!
The photos (eps. the first one) look great, but the 100% crops are a little disappointing, to be honest. A lot of noise and washed details. I expected the G1 sensor to be better.
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
| LucisPictor wrote: |
Really interesting!
The photos (eps. the first one) look great, but the 100% crops are a little disappointing, to be honest. A lot of noise and washed details. I expected the G1 sensor to be better. |
I think testing the sensor with an old L39 lens is not the best way...
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A lot of MF lenses, Panasonic G1, EOS 300V, Zorki 4, Kiev 4, Pentacon Six etc. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
One camera can't solve every requirement perfectly.
If I have endless money I should take following cameras.
#1 Canon 5D MKII full frame, exceptional image quality
#2 Sigma SD 14 due exceptional colors , image quality
#3 G1 due most compatible digital camera from all.
I really think about to take this camera or Samsung NX (Alex did suggest me long time ago and he has absolutely right NX has smaller crop factor...)
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Items on sale on Ebay
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Laurence
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 4809
Location: Western Washington State
Expire: 2016-06-19
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Laurence wrote:
Really nice real-world tests. The images of the locomotives with the wires running every which way, are actually unique and quite nice!
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And handled with a chain.
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Cameras and Lenses in Use:
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CV Apo-Lanthar 90/3.5SL, (Thank you Klaus),
Pentax 645,
Flek 50,
Pentax-A 150
Pentax-A 120 Macro
Voigtlander Vitomatic I w/Color Skopar 50/2.8
Konica TC and zoom lenses (thanks Carsten)
Contax AX
Yashica ML 50/2
Yashica ML 35/2.8
Carl Zeiss Contax 50/1.4
Tamron Adaptall SP 17/3.5
Tamron Adaptall 28/2.5
Tamron Adaptall SP 300/2.8 LD (IF)
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
Thank you Laurence!
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A lot of MF lenses, Panasonic G1, EOS 300V, Zorki 4, Kiev 4, Pentacon Six etc. |
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magnet-2009
Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 505
Location: Greece, Athens
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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magnet-2009 wrote:
Thank you csaba369.
Where [city] is that rail yard?
Mmmmm, I see Alco - Siemens - and that old east stuff....very interesting.
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
| magnet-2009 wrote: |
Thank you csaba369.
Where [city] is that rail yard?
Mmmmm, I see Alco - Siemens - and that old east stuff....very interesting. |
Budapest, Hungary.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
We are living in a museum , old historical buildings, old train and damn "old" political system..
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Items on sale on Ebay
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Farside
Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 6550
Location: Ireland
Expire: 2013-12-27
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Farside wrote:
I love shots of railway yards and tele-compressed ones at that.
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 17633
Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
| csaba369 wrote: |
| LucisPictor wrote: |
Really interesting!
The photos (eps. the first one) look great, but the 100% crops are a little disappointing, to be honest. A lot of noise and washed details. I expected the G1 sensor to be better. |
I think testing the sensor with an old L39 lens is not the best way... |
I actually doubt that it is caused by the "old" lens, I rather think it shows a bad JPEG handling of the cam.
_________________
Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
I'd say that the camera or conversion settings aren't optimal (maybe combination of sharpening and noise reduction?). I can't say, I haven't this camera in my hands.
If I remember correctly, Panasonic tries to avoid bayer artifacting, so debayering and processing algorithms are developed with this in mind. One of side results is slightly softer image at default settings when compared to e.g. Canon, which has higher default sharpness, but is more prone to bayer artifacting.
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
| LucisPictor wrote: |
I actually doubt that it is caused by the "old" lens, I rather think it shows a bad JPEG handling of the cam. |
The format is raw! On my 350D the industar 61 produces much more noise than Canon L lenses with the same settings. On the other hand needed a lot of additional contrast, and more sharpening which increases the noise much! The conclusion: Russian L39 lenses not ideal for digital - but it's interesting, so I do it... So this is a jupiter test, not a pana test!
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
| csaba369 wrote: |
| LucisPictor wrote: |
I actually doubt that it is caused by the "old" lens, I rather think it shows a bad JPEG handling of the cam. |
The format is raw! On my 350D the industar 61 produces much more noise than Canon L lenses with the same settings. On the other hand needed a lot of additional contrast, and more sharpening which increases the noise much! The conclusion: Russian L39 lenses not ideal for digital - but it's interesting, so I do it... So this is a jupiter test, not a pana test! |
Hmmm I have a shot made yesterday with an Helios 40 with L39 mount on the canon 5d MkII and it's high quality just like I had used an L Canon lens ( prefer Helios 40 to Canon 85/1.4 L, btw), I can also show you other shots made with a Jupiter 9 in L39 mount that are perfectly good too.
The problem is the sensor, not the lens. The 3/4 sensor already has a lot more of noise compared to larger ones (I know it, I have an Oly e410), add to it the CONTINUOS live view function that increases the heat of the sensor and its noise consequentially. Even if they tell that sensor overheating for continuos liveview is a solved problem, these shots show that it's not 100% solved.
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My Photography Website
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My Photostream on Flickr
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DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
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Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
I think the noise difference between manual and AF lens is inexact exposure metering with non-AF lenses. If the body underexposures the image and then corrects exposure during processing, noise can be more obvious.
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
Noisy or not, I like it, really a good cam for my MF lenses. It shows me quite well the bokeh type, colors of a lens and some info about sharpness before I use it on film. 5D and a lot other DSLR are better, certainly...but how can use L39, C mount etc. on them?
If I'll found a full frame digi with such a little register distance, such an easy focusing etc. I'll buy it...
The overall picture quality is better then my ex 350D, so I'm happy with it...
The ccd noise doesn't depends on lens optical resolution (lines/mm)?
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no-X
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 2495
Location: Budejky, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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no-X wrote:
I'm going to buy m4/3 in the future, too, so I'm happy to see your results
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
noX has some samples in the next thread from a J9, which suggest that the problem may be with the sensor. His are much cleaner with fewer artifacts and less noise.
patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
| A G Photography wrote: |
Hmmm I have a shot made yesterday with an Helios 40 with L39 mount on the canon 5d MkII and it's high quality just like I had used an L Canon lens ( prefer Helios 40 to Canon 85/1.4 L, btw), I can also show you other shots made with a Jupiter 9 in L39 mount that are perfectly good too. |
Alessandro! Was it really an LTM (rangefinder) lens? Helios 40 for zorki, fed etc??? Or it was a zenit m39? I think the m39 and l39 jupiter 9 is quite another lens. For example the register distance is 28.8/45.46.
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csaba369
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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csaba369 wrote:
| patrickh wrote: |
noX has some samples in the next thread from a J9, which suggest that the problem may be with the sensor. His are much cleaner with fewer artifacts and less noise.
patrickh |
It's an m39 lens too, not a rangefinder one as I see.
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Bologna - Italy
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
L39 is the mount of old Zenit SLR, M39 is leica like thread mount for RF.
_________________
Alessandro
My Photography Website
My Blog about Photography and Italian Cuisine
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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