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Juanma
Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 257 Location: Cambrils, Spain
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Unsharp Mask. Do you use it? |
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Juanma wrote:
Hi,
I see that people over here tend to take the "purist" aproach to photography, and like photos the way they come out of the camera, or with minimal retouch.
I'd like to know if you use normally any sharpening process in the editing of your photos. May it be Photoshop's Unsharp Mask of a dedicated tool to do that.
I particularly sharpen the photos that I post here by using the "Bicubic sharpen" interpolation from Photoshop as I reduce them. No Unsharp Mask.
If I would print it, I apply some sharpening, but not too much.
What's your opinion? _________________ Juanma
Canon EOS 600 | Praktica MTL5B | Zorki 4K | Jupiter 8 | Flektogon 4/20 | Pentacon 2,8/29 | Flektogon 2,4/35 | Tessar 2,8/50 | Industar 50-2 | Jupiter 9 | Sonnar 3,5/135 | Some AF stuff | A couple of MF lenses coming... |
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Prometheus
Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 878 Location: Garphyttan, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Prometheus wrote:
I sharpen in GIMP och Photoshop, using any tool available and that looks good on the image (Unsharp mask, Smart sharpen, High pass etc)
I scale the images to show them on the web ofcourse. When I do that they lose sharpness. I have no doubts at all about if I should sharpen or not. _________________ Retrocamera.net |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
Hi Juanma,
It depends.
On the 400D the IR filter was strong and it help to unsharp 140, 0.4 if needed.
On the 40D the IR filter is better and unsharp is not needed.
I use the unsharp mask to fix focus or blur problem
If the focus and the lens is good you cannot sharp a lot without artifacts in hairs or skins.
When I resize to 800 for web, it is possible to sharp a lot without too much artifact. I use some time more to impress than because it is needed.
The "Bicubic sharpen" work sometimes but most of the times the result is too much sharp. I use normal Bicubic except if the shot is missed.
In summary when the photo is missed I use sharpening and "Bicubic sharpen" to rescue it
otherwise it is not needed except if you want to impress. _________________ T* |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Every resolution size has it's own sharpening requirements. There is no sharpening recipe that works at all resolutions. For heavy web resize sharpening can help to recover the perception of detail that is lost because of the size reduction. For 1:1 sizes sharpening is usually required only in the small amount needed to make up for the camera's AA filter. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Sometimes... _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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lahnet
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1164 Location: Denmark
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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lahnet wrote:
I shoot RAW almost every time. That means that I have to add some sharpening manual. Normally I do it before converting into JPEG. I use CS3. _________________ Henrik
Lahnet-Foto
My FLICKR
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I never could sharpen any images successfully, I gave up. Olympus E-1 basic settings are very unsharp even with best lenses. I had to set more sharpening in camera, now I like the result. I had Nikon D50 and Olympus E-300 on both camera default sharpening settings is fine. Unsharp Oly was a shocking surprise. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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lulalake
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 1191 Location: Near Austin Texas
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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lulalake wrote:
Attila wrote: |
I never could sharpen any images successfully, I gave up. Olympus E-1 basic settings are very unsharp even with best lenses. I had to set more sharpening in camera, now I like the result. I had Nikon D50 and Olympus E-300 on both camera default sharpening settings is fine. Unsharp Oly was a shocking surprise. |
I highly recommend the TLR sharpening toolkit (free) from the Light's right.
http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/photoshop-tools.htm
It is a series of scripts that go into the PS script menu and is accessed under the scripts menu in PS. Good interface. It allows tremendous control over sharpening.
I sharpened the Bodhisattva (gallery) shot with it. You can control the width of the pixel halo from very narrow to wide, white to dark.
Jules |
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piticu
Joined: 04 Aug 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Romania
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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piticu wrote:
Attila wrote: |
I never could sharpen any images successfully, I gave up. |
I highly recommend the best book that i found about this particular subject: Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop CS2 and the tools that closely implement the technique praised in the book: PixelGenius PhotoKit Sharpener. _________________ www.atelierelealbe.eu |
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Nesster
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 5883 Location: NJ, USA
Expire: 2014-02-20
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Nesster wrote:
I find .2 and 140+% usually works to firm up the image without artifacts. I usually feel the need for something like this.
When necessary, I also use 20-30 pix radius and <20% sharpening to help provide local contrast. _________________ -Jussi
Camera photos
Print Photographica
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A G Photography
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 1480 Location: Bologna - Italy
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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A G Photography wrote:
99% of times I use high pass because I can fine tuning it to my taste with opacity, method, masks etc. As Orio said there's no recipe, it depends heavily on the medium you need to display the image upon.
Some printers need more or less sharpening, I use Nik plugin for it as it has presets for a vast range of printers. For video it depends a lot on the subject and the lens I used, and more of all the effect I want to achieve. _________________ Alessandro
My Photography Website
My Blog about Photography and Italian Cuisine
My Photostream on Flickr
--------------------------------------------------------
DSLR: Nikon d80, Olympus e410
SLR: Chinon CX, Fujica ST605n, Nikon f601, Pentacon FM, Pentax Spotmatic SPII, Praktica FX, Praktica FX2, Voigtlander VST1, Yashica FX-3, Zeiss Contaflex
RF: Altissa Altix, Zorki Ie, Kiev 4b
Medium Format: Pentacon Six TL, Zeiss Ikonta 520/2, Mockba 4, Voigtlander Bessa I, Agfa Isolette II, Agfa Isola
Large Format: Cambo SC 4x5, Rodenstock Sinaron 150/5.6, Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5.6, Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 180/5.6
Lenses
Nikkors: 28/3.5 AIS, 35/2, 50/1.8, 50/2 H, Micro 55/3.5, Micro 60/2.8, 85/1.8, 135/3.5 AI, 200/4 NAI, 18-55/3.5-5.6, 28-80/3.5-5.6, 55-200/4-5.6
CY: Distagon 28/2.8, Planar 50/1.4, Yashika 50/1.7, Sonnar 135/2.8
CZJ m42-Exakta: Flektogon 20/4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Tessar 40/4.5, Tessar 50/2.8, Pancolar 50/1.8, Pancolar 50/2, Biotar 58/2, Biotar 75/1.5, Tessar 80/2.8, Sonnar 135/3.5, Sonnar 135/4, Triotar 135/4
CZJ P6: Flektogon 50/4, Flektogon 65/2.8, Biometar 80/2.8, Biometar 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Meyer-Pentacon: Orestegon 29/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Lydith 30/3.5, Primagon 35/4.5, Helioplan 40/4.5, Domiplan 50/2.8, Primotar 50/3.5, Oreston 50/1.8, Primoplan 58/1.9, Orestor 100/2.8, Trioplan 100/2.8, Helioplan 135/4.5, Orestor 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5, Primotar 180/3.5, Telemegor 180/5.5, Orestegor 200/4, Pentacon 200/4, Orestegor 300/4, Telemegor 300/4.5, Telemegor 400/5.5
Schneider-Kreuznach: Curtagon 28/4, Curtagon 35/2.8, Xenon 50/1.9, Xenar 50/2.8, Tele Xenar 135/3.5, Tele Xenar 200/4
Russians: Arsat Zodiak 30/3.5, Mir-I 37/2.8, Volna-9 50/2.8, Industar-50 50/3.5, Industar-61 50/2.8, Helios 44 58/2, Helios 44-2 58/2, Helios 44-M-4 58/2, Volna-3 80/2.8, Helios 40 85/1.5, Jupiter 9 85/2, Jupiter 11 135/4
Others: Chinon-Tomioka 55/1.4, Helios 28/2.8, Isco Iscotar 50/2.8, Konica Hexanon 40/1.8, Ludwig Meritar 50/2.9, Schacht Travegon 35/3.5, Schacht Travenon 135/4.5, Sekor 55/1.8, Sigma MF 28/2.8, S-Takumar, 28/3.5, S-Takumar 50/1.4, S-Takumar 55/1.8, S-Takumar 55/2, Steinheil Quinar 135/2.8, Steinheil Culminar 135/4.5, Vivitar 135/2.8, Voigtlander Ultron 50/1.8, Yashica Yashinon DX 50/1.4, Zuiko MC Auto-W 28/2.8
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Richard_D
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2378 Location: Faversham Kent UK
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Richard_D wrote:
I tend to use it, but sparingly! _________________ Richard
The interesting bit:
Nikkors: 20mm f2.8 AIS, 24mm f2.8 AIS, 28mm f2.8 AIS, 35mm f2 AIS, 50mm f1.4 AI, 50mm f1.48AI, 50m f2 AI,
55mm f3.5 AI'd, 105mm f4 AI, 135mm f2.8 AI'd, 135mm f3.5 AI'd, 200mm f4 AI'd .
Nikon E Series: 100mm f2.8 .
Soviet Nikon Mount: Zenitar 16mm f2.8, Arsat/arax/photex 85mm T&S f2.8 .
Other: Asahi Super Takumar 55 mm f2 (M42) ,Tamron 300mm f5.6 SP, Tamron 500mm f8 SP.
DSLR: Nikon D700. 35mm SLRsNikon FE, Pentax S1a.
TLR: Rolliecord II.
Sub-Minature: Pentax Auto 110, 18mm f2.8, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f2.8.
More to come... |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57865 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Thank you! _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Laurence
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 4809 Location: Western Washington State
Expire: 2016-06-19
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Laurence wrote:
I use it to rescue web size images, but not very often.
I use it quite often for getting an image ready for printing. _________________
Assent, and you are sane;
Demur,—you ’re straightway dangerous,
And handled with a chain.
Emily Dickinson
Cameras and Lenses in Use:
Yashica Mat 124 w/ Yashinon 80/3.5,
CV Apo-Lanthar 90/3.5SL, (Thank you Klaus),
Pentax 645,
Flek 50,
Pentax-A 150
Pentax-A 120 Macro
Voigtlander Vitomatic I w/Color Skopar 50/2.8
Konica TC and zoom lenses (thanks Carsten)
Contax AX
Yashica ML 50/2
Yashica ML 35/2.8
Carl Zeiss Contax 50/1.4
Tamron Adaptall SP 17/3.5
Tamron Adaptall 28/2.5
Tamron Adaptall SP 300/2.8 LD (IF)
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Rob Leslie
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Unsharp Mask. Do you use it? |
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Rob Leslie wrote:
Juanma wrote: |
Hi,
I see that people over here tend to take the "purist" aproach to photography, and like photos the way they come out of the camera, or with minimal retouch.
What's your opinion? |
I would go along with that!
Lets keep it real. Shoot JPEG, never read the camera manual and as for messing about with Photoshop,- Shame on you!
You would never have dreamed of trying to change the way the lab D&P your film so lets keep it traditional!!! _________________ Pentax K10D & K100D. Many Tamron Adaptall SP lenses, Fujinon f4.5 400mm. A loved Lens Baby 2, Lubitel triplet +++ and many film cameras. Mainly a Digital user inc G5, GR2
http://robstreet.blogspot.com/
http://robleslie.blogspot.com/
http://roblesliephotography.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64956578@N00/ |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I shoot RAW, tweak all levels and sharpness in CS3 Bridge, open in CS3 Photoshop and do more work, dodging, burning add effects, filters and then run High Pass filter and set blending mode and opacity to suit.
But I enjoy this side as more than capturing the image and it's nothing for me to spend a few hours on one image. To hand this side over to a lab is a big no-no for me. The end result is I get the picture that I want.
This is the reason I only got into photography when it became digital. Film is not my cup of tea. As you may have guessed, I'm not a purist. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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Jesito
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 5745 Location: Olivella, Catalonia, (Spain)
Expire: 2015-01-07
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Jesito wrote:
I only sharpen the 350D RAW ones, according the CANON manual it's necessary to compensate the IR filter. The manual states the amount of sharpening on PS.
Jes. _________________ Jesito, Moderator
Jesito's backsack:
Zooms Sigma 70-300, Tamron 35-135 and 70-210 short, 70-210 long, 28-70 CF Macro, 35-70, 35-80, Vivitar 70-210 KA, Tamron 70-250.
Fixed Industar-50, , Tamron 24mm, Tamron 135mm, Sands Hunter 135mm, Pancolar 50mm, Volna-3, many Exakta lenses
DSLR SIGMA SD9 & SD14, EOS 5D, Sony A700 and NEXF3, Oly E-330, E-400, E-450, E-1
TLR/6x6/645 YashicaMat, Petri 6x45, Nettar, Franka Solida, Brilliant
SLR Minolta X300, Fuji STX II, Praktica VLC3, Pentax P30t, EXA500, EXA 1A, Spotmatic(2), Chinon CM-4S, Ricoh, Contax, Konica TC-X , Minolta 5000, 7000i, 3Sxi, EOS 500 and CX
Rangefinders Chinon 35EE, Konica C35 auto, Canonet 28, Yashica Lynx, FED-2, Yashica electro 35, Argus C3 & C4, Regula Cita III, Voigtlander Vitoret (many), Welta Welti-I, Kodak Signette 35, Zorki-4, Bessa-R & L, Minolta Weathermatic, olympus XA2
Compact Film Konica C35V, Voigtlander Vitorets, Canon Prima Super 105, Olympus XA2 and XA3
Compact Digital Olympus C-5050, Aiptek Slim 3000, Canon Powershot A540, Nikon 5200, SIGMA DP1s, Polaroid X530, IXUS55, Kodak 6490, Powershot G9 and G10
CSCCanon EOS-M, Samsung NX100 and NX210, Lumix G5, NEX-F3 |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
I don't use the Canon software. I just take the image size to around 200% and check the edges.
I think the xxD range gives softer less contrasty images straight from camera than the xxxD range, as it's assumed that people with prosumer cameras will want to do some post processing. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
Wow...Nice effect!
That really suits those images. _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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thePiRaTE!!
Joined: 31 Oct 2008 Posts: 416 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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thePiRaTE!! wrote:
Its a good topic. Its nice to hear everyones philosophies and techniques.
Philosophy wise, I shoot raw with a DSLR, which in itself is basically a little computer with a program built in for rendering a digital image. Its a preset, which sometimes works to my liking, but often, not. I see photoshop as an extention of my digital photography. 'Light Room' is perhaps the most aptly named program for what it entails, along with the .DNG (digital negative) format. Its the next (and to me) necessary step to producing a final image.
Otoh, I imagine film photography would require a different train of thought.
As for technique, I use USM often on the subject of focus. I tend to generate a lot of oof area which suffers with noise if I universally process the whole image, so I lasso only the area I want to affect, copy to layer and apply USM. I zoom in and if necessary, blend the edges into the image and merge down. In the end, USM affects only small parts of the images I create if I use it, but its often used. I consider it a valuable tool in my process of creating an image.
K. _________________ kellysereda.com
Sony A7ii, A900, NEX-5
_______________________
Helios: 1.5/85 40-2.
Meyer-Optik: Trioplan 2.8/100, Oreston 1.8/50.
Minolta: Rokkor-PG 1.2/58.
Porst: 1.2/55 Color Reflex.
Sony: 4-5.6/70-400 G.
Takumar: Super Takumar 3.5/135, Super Takumar 1.4/50, SMC Takumar 3.5/28.
Topcon: Topcor 1.4/58.
Voigtländer: Nokton Classic SC 1.4/35.
Zeiss: Planar T*1.2/85 "60 jahre" C/Y, Vario-Sonnar T*3.4/35-70 C/Y, Vario-Sonnar T*2.8/16-35 ZA, Distagon T*2/24 ZA.
lenses for sale here |
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Rob Leslie
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Rob Leslie wrote:
thePiRaTE!! wrote: |
Its a good topic. Its nice to hear everyones philosophies and techniques.
As for technique, I use USM often on the subject of focus. I tend to generate a lot of oof area which suffers with noise if I universally process the whole image, so I lasso only the area I want to affect, copy to layer and apply USM. I zoom in and if necessary, blend the edges into the image and merge down. In the end, USM affects only small parts of the images I create if I use it, but its often used. I consider it a valuable tool in my process of creating an image.
K. |
Selective USM always works well but you should try it on another Layer using a layer mask. You then have no need to use a lasso for your selections and thus save a lot of time and get better control.
Using a layer mask also allows you to use different layers for different areas and thus apply USM with even more control.
Using a layer mask will of course also work with other methods of sharpening or any other adjustment you wish to make.
You can even do sharpening in RAW on a second conversion and apply that as a layer mask.
I do agree that 'Blanket' USM is just about the last resort and only used by beginners. as you point out in some areas you are only sharpening noise or worse areas that you wish to keep as smooth OOF ones. _________________ Pentax K10D & K100D. Many Tamron Adaptall SP lenses, Fujinon f4.5 400mm. A loved Lens Baby 2, Lubitel triplet +++ and many film cameras. Mainly a Digital user inc G5, GR2
http://robstreet.blogspot.com/
http://robleslie.blogspot.com/
http://roblesliephotography.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64956578@N00/ |
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indianadinos
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 1310 Location: Toulouse, France
Expire: 2011-12-05
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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indianadinos wrote:
Hi all,
I only sharpen if required, whether it is the full size or resized image, usually with an USM of 2/0.2/0.
Best regards |
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hk300
Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 1041 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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hk300 wrote:
i am trying to keep post procesing to a minimum, i rather retake the photo.
However, i am really impressed by some of the photoshop possibilities! |
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martinsmith99
Joined: 31 Aug 2008 Posts: 6950 Location: S Glos, UK
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:10 am Post subject: |
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martinsmith99 wrote:
hk300 wrote: |
i am trying to keep post procesing to a minimum, i rather retake the photo.
However, i am really impressed by some of the photoshop possibilities! |
Alex
You shoot with a 40D don't you? How much sharpening do you do in PP and do you shoot RAW/JPG? _________________ Casual attendance these days |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
With digital cameras, or when scanning film, sharpening is a necessary evil.
It all depends on the amount, just like parsley: a little bit of parsley will give taste to your dishes; eat a whole bowl of parsley and you will be intoxicated; eat a can of parsley, and you will be dead.
The amount of sharpening required varies with the final destination of the image, so it's impossible to give an "how much". _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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