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Topcor 58mm f/1.8
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Has anyone ever observed any real difference in performance among the different versions?

A conclusive test would possible for somebody who owns (multiple) pieces of both versions - the old 990xxxxx and the modern 116xxxxx...

We can compare one old vs three new Topcors here:

This Takumar vs Topcor 990xxxxx test was done with A7, on tripod, self-timered and focused on the red crane.


You can compare the results with those done at stevemark's test of Takumar vs Topcor 116xxxxx http://forum.mflenses.com/smc-pentax-50-1-4-vs-topcor-58-1-8-t79001,start,39.html


PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Has anyone ever observed any real difference in performance among the different versions?



I seriously doubt there's much difference, they were very consistent. The US Navy purchased many of these lenses for surveillance, with stock specs, for at least 12 years back in the day.

Happy to report I finally bought a 58/1.8 s/n 990xxxxx. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats, I look forward to seeing some shots from it.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


99005073 serial number


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:26 pm    Post subject: My copy doesn't seem to fall in any of the # ranges Reply with quote
My copy doesn't seem to fall in any of the # ranges. Can anyone pass along any info on one with serial No. 287586?

Here's an image with my copy of the Topcon 5.8cm f1.8 shot from the deck of my house.



Thx!


PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are you sure you have a RE Auto Topcor? Do you have a picture of this lens?

I have always wondered about the 58 1.4. I have the 58 1.8
However, with the 58 1.4 selling for ~$150 and the 58 1.8 for ~$50
I don't see the extra light gathering worth the premium unless the 58 1.4
has some magical rendering.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's a much earlier lens than we have mostly been talking about, it's earlier than my 5.8cm/1.8 #632468 which was my dad's.(Which suffers from separation).

https://www.wesellyourcollection.com/topcon/product/07-topcon-r-sn-157746-with-auto-topcor-58cm-118-lens-sn-287739-set-of-boxed-topcon-r-assesory/
(FYI nothing is for sale on that site, it's just a persons collection)


PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
Are you sure you have a RE Auto Topcor? Do you have a picture of this lens?

I have always wondered about the 58 1.4. I have the 58 1.8
However, with the 58 1.4 selling for ~$150 and the 58 1.8 for ~$50
I don't see the extra light gathering worth the premium unless the 58 1.4
has some magical rendering.


It's a bigger lens for sure, it's a legend for a reason, it's why Voigtlander made a copy with permission from Topcon:

https://cameraquest.com/Voigt%20SL.htm
Quote:
December 2003: Ok folks, some things are stranger than fiction. Mr. Kobayashi likes his Topcon Super D of 1963 enough to style Voigtlander's new silver Bessaflex after it, even producing a Topcon style 58/1.4 complete with the Topcon engraving. Mr. Kobayashi received the blessings of Tokyo Optical, which is still in business manufacturing medical equipment. This lens developed a legendary status in Japan.

The new Voigtlander 58/1.4 Topcor is a new optical design and styled after the classic 58/1.4 Topcor, even down to the Topcor's bayonet on lens hood. These are limited edition lenses, with 800 each announced to be produced in Pentax 42mm screw mount and Nikon AI mount. The lens barrel is out of place in today's plastic lens world, with real classic style chrome, looking just like it came off Topcon's production line in the 1960's. The lens barrel is beautifully made, and rather amazing in the "find any way to make it cheaper" manufacturing times. Side by side the new Topcor is a bit smaller than the original, so the hoods will not interchange. Specs: 7 elements in 6 groups, multi-coated, f/1.4 to f/16, 9 aperture leaves, 58mm filter size, close focus to .45 meter or 1:5.8, weight 305 grams (Nikon).



Only the 1.8 is no slouch either, both perform at a higher level than most from that era, even today many lenses struggle to get a lens to be razor sharp wide open, most need to be stopped down some.

Klaus posted a nice comparison of sorts:
http://forum.mflenses.com/re-auto-topcor-f1-8-58mm-t59371.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/re-auto-topcor-f1-4-58mm-t59305.html

Honestly I think any of Topcon's 58mm lenses are amazing(assuming there are no issues)


PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My experience with the 58 3.5 macro agrees. I need some cash now and have been selling dribs and drabs of things. I considered selling my black 58 1.8 but then when I researched the market went, nope, maybe I'll buy some more!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Auto-Topcor 1:1.8 f=5.8cm early serial #287586 Reply with quote
cbass & Lightshow or anyone with more info ...

Here's a couple of pix of my Auto-Topcor 1:1.8 f=5.8cm early serial #287586.

If anyone has any info on this early date lens, please pass it along.

Thx!
#1


#2


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
My pics from the 129B https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/topcorre5818/

Not very obvious unless you see "The Topcon Story" book.
Seems to be at least 3 optical revisions and 5-6 different versions, 8 if you include the R Auto-Topcor and F Auto-Topcor
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971)


Here’s a more complete list of the different 5.8cm/58mm f1.8 lenses. (the serial identifies which version)

Code 28B R Auto-Topcor "preset semi-auto" serial 28xxxx (Auto needs to be armed)
Code 63B R Auto-Topcor "preset Autokinon" serial 63xxxx
Code 62B F Auto-Topcor serial 62xxxx (1960)
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971) .
[img] http://www.topgabacho.jp/Topconclub/TalkLenscut/Auto58cut.jpg[/img]

Last edited by Lightshow on Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
My pics from the 129B https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/topcorre5818/

Not very obvious unless you see "The Topcon Story" book.
Seems to be at least 3 optical revisions and 5-6 different versions, 8 if you include the R Auto-Topcor and F Auto-Topcor
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971)


Here’s a more complete list of the different 5.8cm/58mm f1.8 lenses. (the serial identifies which version)

Code 28B R Auto-Topcor "preset semi-auto" serial 28xxxx (Auto needs to be armed)
Code 63B R Auto-Topcor "preset Autokinon" serial 63xxxx
Code 62B F Auto-Topcor serial 62xxxx (1960)
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971) .


Hmmmm, it seems that my copy falls outside the stated serial numbers for 116B and 129B
Here it is
Tom

#1


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:07 am    Post subject: Auto-Topcor 1:1.8 f=5.8cm early serial #287586 Reply with quote
Thanks Lightshow.

So my Auto-Topcor 1:1.8 f=5.8cm serial #287586 appears to be a Code 28B. What year is this from?

Thx!


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
They started Topcon R production in 1957 and Topcon R II in 1960, which is when they introduced the F series.
I couldn't find any info on when they switched from the code 28 series to the code 63 series(semi-auto to auto) but my guess it was sometime in 1958.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
My pics from the 129B https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/topcorre5818/

Not very obvious unless you see "The Topcon Story" book.
Seems to be at least 3 optical revisions and 5-6 different versions, 8 if you include the R Auto-Topcor and F Auto-Topcor
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971)


Here’s a more complete list of the different 5.8cm/58mm f1.8 lenses. (the serial identifies which version)

Code 28B R Auto-Topcor "preset semi-auto" serial 28xxxx (Auto needs to be armed)
Code 63B R Auto-Topcor "preset Autokinon" serial 63xxxx
Code 62B F Auto-Topcor serial 62xxxx (1960)
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971) .


Hmmmm, it seems that my copy falls outside the stated serial numbers for 116B and 129B
Here it is
Tom

Your lens is a 116B, My 129B silver falls outside the list too, 11671799. My guess is the serial stopped before 11609999 and possibly 8999, I'd have to go through the thread listed below to confirm.
Yeah, the serials were gathered in Italy by Marco Antonetto author of the 'Topcon Story' book from the local Topcon service department records, therefore at best it is only an estimation of production number range, the Topcon thread has a a bunch of additional serial numbers that fall outside those listed in the book. http://forum.mflenses.com/re-auto-topcor-serial-number-and-name-ring-description-t65089.html Which you did post that lens serial number. the OP last updated in Oct. 2016.
As far as I know, there are no official serial number lists.

Last edited by Lightshow on Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for that clarification.
It is a wonderful lens - a favourite in fact
Tom


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Yeah, I love my 129B, I'm still looking for a black 116B(not sure there is a black version) or 129B.

Thanks to a kind soul (you know who you are), I have my lens, I'm still sorting out the lens I'm sending him in thanks... even though he asked for nothing in return.
It's a later 129BG the grip wasn't pristine, but close enough to make me happy.


Code 28B R Auto-Topcor "preset semi-auto" serial 28xxxx (Auto needs to be armed)
Code 63B R Auto-Topcor "preset Autokinon" serial 63xxxx
Code 62B F Auto-Topcor serial 62xxxx (1960)
Code 62B based on the F Auto-Topcor from: 620001 to 625115 (1963)
Code 99B new optics,2nd and 3rd elements were separated. from 99xxxxx to 9901920 (1964)
Code 116B new mechanicals, from 1160001 to 11608302 (1965)
Code 129B (black or chrome) optics changed again From: 1161xxxx to 11670435 last known (1966) I have the chrome version, awesome lens.
Code 129BD (Navy) from: 1165xxxx to 11650401 last known (1967)
Code 129BG AUTO-TOPCOR (black) from: 1168xxxx to 11685922 last known (1971) .

Last edited by Lightshow on Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So far, I have only got my hands on a 35mm f/2.8, which is unfortunately decentered. Also had a chance owing a 100mm f/2.8 but focus ring is stuck. One biggest regret is a package of 58mm/1.4, 35mm/2.8 and 135mm/3.5 BIN for $169 but I chose to bid. The finally price you can imagine. At that time, I underestimated the value of 58mm/1.4 among Topcor collectors. I guess probably I just don't have enough luck with Topcors...


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
Yeah, I love my 129B, I'm still looking for a black 116B(not sure there is a black version) or 129B. They do seem to be uncommon on ebay, the f1.4 is far more common.


Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Topcor-Re-Auto-5-8cm-58mm-f1-8-BLACK-Topcon-Tokyo-Kogaku-in-great-condition/223733910812?hash=item3417948d1c:g:47gAAOSwJeVdjxQi


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
Yeah, I love my 129B, I'm still looking for a black 116B(not sure there is a black version) or 129B. They do seem to be uncommon on ebay, the f1.4 is far more common.


Here's one:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Topcor-Re-Auto-5-8cm-58mm-f1-8-BLACK-Topcon-Tokyo-Kogaku-in-great-condition/223733910812?hash=item3417948d1c:g:47gAAOSwJeVdjxQi


Thanks, it's bit pricey for one with a re-glued grip that's been cut.
If anyone has a nice one, I have a nice clean Black 28/2.8 for trade. serial 1415xxx


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What is the big deal with the black Topcors? I have two 58 1.8's. One Silver. One Black. To me it seems the silver ones were built better. My black one is in excellent condition. However, the rubber ring has enlarged and popped off. It doesn't seem worn at all just expanded for whatever reason. It seems that the black ones I see on ebay often have rubber separation issues.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Lightshow ... and thanks to all for your info and comments.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
What is the big deal with the black Topcors? I have two 58 1.8's. One Silver. One Black. To me it seems the silver ones were built better. My black one is in excellent condition. However, the rubber ring has enlarged and popped off. It doesn't seem worn at all just expanded for whatever reason. It seems that the black ones I see on ebay often have rubber separation issues.


I assume the enlargement of the rubber it's got to do with the stiff focus , so probably a new grease would help . I am saying that because if it takes more strength to focus , the rubber would get worn earlier. I've got the silver 1.4 version, very nice built, but the focus it isn't ultrasmooth neither.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The rubber isn't worn. It just got too huge for the lens. I imagine Topcor must have changed materials or some kind of product that was applied just expanded the rubber. It's soft, it's crack free. It just too large for the lens. Of course, I am assuming this rubber is actually for this lens. Who knows with something this old, but I have seen more rubber issues on the black topcors looking through ebay. I wonder if it's perhaps silicone in the later topcors instead of rubber.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cbass wrote:
What is the big deal with the black Topcors? I have two 58 1.8's. One Silver. One Black. To me it seems the silver ones were built better. My black one is in excellent condition. However, the rubber ring has enlarged and popped off. It doesn't seem worn at all just expanded for whatever reason. It seems that the black ones I see on ebay often have rubber separation issues.


There is no difference between silver or black lenses that I can see, deteriorating rubber seems to afflict most lens versions in a random way, but in general the later lenses seem to fare better and the black lenses came later in the production, the 85 doesn't seem to be affected as I've not seen any with bad rubber, it was one of the last lenses Topcon released.
The deterioration is a function of Topcon being one of the first to use rubber on lenses, at that time rubber formulations tended to either dry out or break down, you can see this in older cars and another thing that had rubber at that time.
When it dries out they become hard and brittle, if you try to bend or stretch the rubber cracks and crumbles, when it breaks down it looses it's elastic properties and can turn into mush.
What causes it? it seems to be a mix of things, the formulation, how it was vulcanized, and what conditions the rubber was exposed to during it's life, UV, oils, etc... It's partly why I prefer the all metal lenses, plastic and rubber can deteriorate, metal? Not so much.
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