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Tomioka
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You made me doubt my impressions (it's hard to distinguish just by looking) so i put something of straight shape on rear element and it is concave.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it not reasonable to think these two might share some heritage?


Chinon Tomioka on left and Pentor on right.[/img]


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interestingly my Pentor uses another font for the engravings... Note the number 6.



PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Peter: I would guess the assembler of the lenses has parts made from multiple vendors and they mix them or just move to a new supply when depleting old supply. My lens is 139 units earlier in production.

I see that your images posted in the oversized gallery are indeed from FF. I wonder if that has something to do with the 3D-ish appearance. If you don't mind, I had asked in post 4th from the top of page 2 if you have any opinions of this Pentor when compared to the Meyer lenses you have.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to confuse matters, there was also a Tokina made 100/2.8 which was sort of similar, and branded with all sorts of names.







PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
Just to confuse matters, there was also a Tokina made 100/2.8 which was sort of similar, and branded with all sorts of names.


Yes there are also Tokina made 100/2.8 lenses but this Hanimex looks exactly like Porst and Pentor above.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Graham: What leads you to believe that is Tokina made?


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Graham: What leads you to believe that is Tokina made?


I can't remember Laughing Maybe it is a Tomioka Shocked


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
I see that your images posted in the oversized gallery are indeed from FF. I wonder if that has something to do with the 3D-ish appearance. If you don't mind, I had asked in post 4th from the top of page 2 if you have any opinions of this Pentor when compared to the Meyer lenses you have.


In the coming days I'll try to organize a little shoot-out. I think the differences are small, although the Trioplan is certainly on another level Wink


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ManualFocus-G wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Graham: What leads you to believe that is Tokina made?


I can't remember Laughing Maybe it is a Tomioka Shocked


Did you see the sample that is actually labeled Tomioka? Little space for confusion left here i think.

What about this one? Could it be our friend in metal dress: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=16881
Concave rear would give good argument.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Graham: What leads you to believe that is Tokina made?


I can't remember Laughing Maybe it is a Tomioka Shocked


Did you see the sample that is actually labeled Tomioka? Little space for confusion left here i think.

What about this one? Could it be our friend in metal dress: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=16881
Concave rear would give good argument.


I don't see anything compelling with that one to say it's like the Chinon or Pentor. I couldn't make out the type of aperture blades.

Dimitry seemed to think the Pentor is not Tomioka, I think mainly because of the direction of the focus ring, but I'm still trying to get a handle on what shared characteristics are reasonable to come to a conclusion and what are disqualifiers. This is a curiosity mostly for me; I'm going to like the lens or not regardless of who made it.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spotmatic wrote:
woodrim wrote:
I see that your images posted in the oversized gallery are indeed from FF. I wonder if that has something to do with the 3D-ish appearance. If you don't mind, I had asked in post 4th from the top of page 2 if you have any opinions of this Pentor when compared to the Meyer lenses you have.


In the coming days I'll try to organize a little shoot-out. I think the differences are small, although the Trioplan is certainly on another level Wink


Thanks, Peter, but I wasn't asking you to go to great trouble. I would be happy hearing your opinion. Trioplan definitely will have a different bokeh, but as sharp? Trioplan is one of relatively few lenses that can be singled out easily. WHile I don't have any other 100mm lenses (although had considered a Vivitar), I have two 105 that I can include in some comparisons with this Pentor.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It would be nice to separate a collection co-created by Tomioka and among them find those lenses that excel. 1.4/55mm design and 2.8/100mm design is really good. 2.8/135mm and 3.5/200mm are nothing more then average i think, though i am in love with that bluish-yellow glass and leather grip.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
ManualFocus-G wrote:
Just to confuse matters, there was also a Tokina made 100/2.8 which was sort of similar, and branded with all sorts of names.


Yes there are also Tokina made 100/2.8 lenses but this Hanimex looks exactly like Porst and Pentor above.


I've checked my Vivitar 2.8/100mm - the same model as Newton's here: http://forum.mflenses.com/vivitar-100mm-f2-8-t10912.html

This would be the only Tokina contender i guess. But it's entirely different since rear element much more inside lens body.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Pentor 100mm - Tomioka Reply with quote
I have received my Pentor 100mm lens, which is identical to Peter's (discussed in this thread). I had been quite impressed with the results Peter shared with us in another thread, and in particular what I perceived to be a significant 3-D effect. In fact, I had posted about Peter's images in one of the 3-D threads, but that posting seems to have disappeared; I know not why. Anyway, I wondered if I would receive the same effect with my APS-C sensor that Peter did with his full frame. After my first outing on the past weekend, I'm not at all disappointed. This is truly a wonderful lens and if it wasn't made by Tomioka, I'd like to know who did make it.

The build quality is okay, but nothing great. My only real complaint is that the auto-manual switch is so close to the aperture ring that I frequently pushed it into auto while changing aperture. It focused faily easily and I could even see some of the 3-D in the viewfinder. Results are wonderful. I took several shots wide open for evaluation; they are surprisingly sharp - I'd even go as far as to say it has the best wide open performance of any of my lenses when everything is considered; sharpness, contrast, lack of CA, and pop. Sure, I have other very good wide open performers, but none that handle CA as well. Here are first results after a walkabout through downtown Charleston... and I have posted more here in the Best of Lenses Gallery http://forum.mflenses.com/pentor-2-8-100mm-t43494.html

Do you see 3-D? I do.






Tight crop.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found this site here - but only in German. This guy has a long experience as a repair and service guy. You can translate it with Google translater.


"The myth of Tomioka"

http://www.kameradoktor.de/tomioka1,255mm/ in German

Wink


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That really doesn't translate very well. I had a difficult time understanding his point, but finally came out with this (if correct): He is saying that Tomioka has a cult-like following that he believes goes beyond rational. He mentions a Noctilux with which the Tomioka fans supposedly made some comparisons while favoring the Tomioka. I understand him to say that the comparisons are not valid and he also states that Tomioka is over priced on ebay and elsewhere. I did not read where he said Tomioka was a bad lens, just not comparible to Noctilux. However, if Tomioka is at inflated prices, what is Noctilux in terms as a value?

I personally do not care whether my lenses are a favored brand or not. I am interested to know the maker of any given lens, as is most others here, but I reserve my final opinions for my actual experiences. I have used and sold lenses that receive rave reviews by others, yet I have kept lenses of no name recognition simply because I like them better. For instance, I did not like the Takumar 28mm, yet I consider my Vivitar Close Focus of the same length to be one of my very best lenses. I consider my Series 1 135mm lens to be remarably sharper than any of my others, including Jupiter, but I have fallen in love with a recent addition of Tair-11 133mm. The tair just seems to produce wonderful IQ and it seems very sharp, but when comparing at the pixel level, it is less sharp than the Series 1. This Pentor impressed me from the pictures that forum member Peter posted from this lens. Discussion had ensued over the possible manufacture by Tomioka, based on similarities with a Tomioka labeled lens, but that was incidental to my decision to purchase the lens. As I have said, if it wasn't Tomioka that made this lens, I would like to know who did because it is a wonderful lens regardless. Here are a few more images - the first two are wide open... No CA correction applied to any...







Missed the focus by a little on this one






PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry Woodrim that Google do not translate this very well. It is only one estimation, others are also thinkable. Who knows ?

His main point is indeed that a lot of people write in their *bay description, that the lens they will sell is probably a TOMIOKa lens to increse the price knowing that this lens - as you pointed out before - has a cult status. And indeed it is not absolutely clear that all lenses with F 1.2 or F 1.4 were manufactured by TOMIOKA at that time - and even if they were manufactured by TOMIOKA it is not to be equatable like a seal of quality.

Wink


PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, okay, got it - thanks. I ave seen other lenses with the same barrel design and leatherette on the focusing ring, and while they may be Tomioka, I don't jump on them unless I've seen them in action. But you're right, I have seen claims of Tomioka in sales descriptions.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just an FYI, I found the Topcon mount version selling http://www.ebay.com/itm/271010889977 It appears to be one of these lenses by the focusing grip style. Maybe good for someone with a NEX.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found another label for this lens: Auto Aragon. I certainly didn't need it, buy bought it anyway because it was silly money. I made some comparisons by shooting same subject at same distance with different apertures and it seemed to prove out that the Pentor and Aragon are identical.

I used the Aragon just briefly to see some results. First picture at f/2.8 (accidentally), focus on horse. Next two are pretty tight crops.







PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The pictures look really good!


PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You'd think if Tomioka actually had a cult following, then Yashinon lenses would be worth more than peanuts. My personal thoughts are their lenses are mostly average, with a few great ones, and a few special oddities (like the 1.2) that might be responsible for any sort of brand mystique. Kind of the same deal with Steiheil, the few great lenses they made certainly seem to buoy the average ones. But that probably applies to most brands to some degree.
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