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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10472 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
komet wrote: |
this is very interesting and confirms my experiences, the Nikon MF 2,8/105 is the winner |
I included the Nikkor for comparison; Canon, Zeiss, Pentax also got 4 stars
I noted that no 100mm got 'Excellent'
if you can use normal focal, lens like Leica 60, Zeiss 60, Nikkor 55 should give even better results _________________ T* |
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hinnerker
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Posts: 929 Location: Germany near Kiel
Expire: 2015-08-09
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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hinnerker wrote:
poilu wrote: |
komet wrote: |
this is very interesting and confirms my experiences, the Nikon MF 2,8/105 is the winner |
I included the Nikkor for comparison; Canon, Zeiss, Pentax also got 4 stars
I noted that no 100mm got 'Excellent'
if you can use normal focal, lens like Leica 60, Zeiss 60, Nikkor 55 should give even better results |
Yes, i have got the Elmarit 2.8/60mm and this lens is phantastic. But i missed the Macro 90mm in my range of lenses.
The reports you post here, confirm my results and opinions about the Tokina and the Kiron from my test..
Thanks again for posting. Poilu
Cheers
Henry _________________ some light-painting lens stuff..
... and an EOS 5D MKII
www.digicamclub.de |
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hinnerker
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Posts: 929 Location: Germany near Kiel
Expire: 2015-08-09
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: |
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hinnerker wrote:
AhamB wrote: |
komet wrote: |
Hello,
this is very interesting and confirms my experiences, the Nikon MF 2,8/105 is the winner.
M. |
But that test only evaluates sharpness. In the bokeh department the Bokina most probably still wins. |
yes, ive got the same opinion..
AhamB Where are you located in germany?
Cheers
Henry _________________ some light-painting lens stuff..
... and an EOS 5D MKII
www.digicamclub.de |
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Boomer Depp
Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 552 Location: Kingston,Washighton
Expire: 2011-12-04
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Boomer Depp wrote:
cooltouch wrote: |
Thanks for posting the review, Poilu! Very interesting results. I guess, according to chasseur d' Images the Tamron and Nikkor did best. Personally, I suspect the Tokina they obtained may not have been a typical example. I've seen too many amazing images taken with that lens to rate it simply "bon."
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I also question the validity of those tests.
Unless they tested three to five new lenses from the manufacturer,I would say those tests are pretty much invalid.
Not to mention the Micro-Nikkor 2.8/105 doing so well on the macro tests.I've had a few copies of the Micro-Nikkor 2.8/105 (in search of a copy that would shoot well at 1:1,being a Nikkor collector this was truly sad )and while the lens shoots well from 1:2 to infinity,I've never been impressed with it's 1:1 macro capabilities.When using with the PN-11 extension tube to go 1:1 the images are no where close to the Tokina 2.5/90,the Vivitar Series 1 2.5/90 or the Kiron 2.8/105 for that matter.Also giving the lens high marks at f16 is a joke,the lens shoots best from f5.6-f11 with f5.6-f8 being optimum.
Bjørn Rørslett's opinion reflects what I've experienced using the lens...
http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_spec.html
"This complex lens design features CRC correction to give it very good image quality over its entire focusing range from 1:2 to infinity. Unexpectedly, peak performance occurs for distant objects and the image quality is slightly reduced when it is brought to its near limit at half life-size. The focal length is a mere 88 mm at the near limit. To go beyond 1:2, it's necessary to add the PN-11 extension ring. However, the CRC system isn't working optimal when the extension is added so Nikon advises the lens be stopped down more to retain flat-field correction. The lens flares easily and the use of a long lens shade is recommended at all times. Best image sharpness occurs at f/5.6-f/8 and the quality deteriorates very rapidly beyond f/16" _________________ Trust that little voice in your head that says "Wouldn't it be interesting if...." And then do it. |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
hinnerker wrote: |
cooltouch wrote: |
.....
My camera is a Canon XS (1000D) with a 10mp APS-C sized sensor, which renders images with a max resolution of 3888x2592 pixels. My in-camera sharpness is set to 7 and contrast to 0 (neutral). I will not perform any PP other than cropping and resizing images. |
Sharpness to 7 ??? Whow..
Me, i only take the standard profile with sharpness to 3! otherwise you will get strong stair-artefacts on highlighted edges.. |
I haven't noticed this, and I hate stair-stepped diagonals. I bumped my camera's sharpness up shortly after I bought it about a year and a half ago, and just haven't bothered with changing it. Seemed like my pics just weren't sharp enough coming out of the camera, which is why I did this. I have noticed if I bump up the sharpness too high in Canon's DPP, get other types of artifactual "noise" that I don't care for.
Quote: |
I have two cams.. EOS 5D MKII (FF, 22mp) or an EOS 400D (APS-C, 10mp)... the 400D has no LiveView, so its a bit difficult to nail the focus with the cam
In terms of resolution i can switch down the 5D MKII to SRAW1 Mode.. 3861x2574 pixels to make it compairable?
What kind of light do you prefer and its arrangement?
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I think your 5DII's SRAW1 Mode is plenty close enough to mine's maximum for this sort of test. I wonder if it will even make that much of a difference in terms of sharpness testing?
For lighting, I mounted my camera/lens onto a copy stand, and brought it outdoors, then set it up in open shade. The time was close to mid-day, so the ambient light's color temperature was correct. For the coin, I used an incandescent light located off to one side, then color-corrected the white balance in Canon's DPP software. _________________ Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/ |
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hinnerker
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Posts: 929 Location: Germany near Kiel
Expire: 2015-08-09
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: |
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hinnerker wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
The test with the APO Lanthar will be a very difficult one for the old Bokina to compete. I am interested in seeing the results, but from pictures I've seen from the Lanther, well... This will be a 35 year old design against the best of today. |
Yes, but we will see...
Here's the opponent..
One of the nicest looking lenses i have ever seen and hold in my hand...
During the next days i am going start the research.. and post results..
Cheers
Henry _________________ some light-painting lens stuff..
... and an EOS 5D MKII
www.digicamclub.de |
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hinnerker
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Posts: 929 Location: Germany near Kiel
Expire: 2015-08-09
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
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hinnerker wrote:
Before starting the comparison in some pic's.. some further impressive shots with the Tokina AT-X 2.5/90mm with a P-Cir filter from Leica to eliminate the reflections on the window glas..
This little boy caught himself between my window and a fly screen door to my balkony. So the shots are taken through the window glass.. a great model for some minutes. All images are 800 pix crop, EOS 5D MKII
Cheers
Henry _________________ some light-painting lens stuff..
... and an EOS 5D MKII
www.digicamclub.de
Last edited by hinnerker on Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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hinnerker
Joined: 17 Aug 2009 Posts: 929 Location: Germany near Kiel
Expire: 2015-08-09
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: |
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hinnerker wrote:
Ok, lets talk about the comparison with the Voigtländer APO Lanthar 2.5/125mm.
First of all.. the APO Lanthar is one of the best macro lenses ever build.
To hold this lens in hands, is like .... its a Masterpiece of mechanical craftmanship. I like it to work with that lens.
The lens has electronical communication with the EOS Circuit, so the aperture can be closed by camera electronic and the only thing you have to do is to "nail the focus".. The Lanthar is a dream...
For me it would be interesting to see, how an old formula, like the Vivitar/Tokina made AT-X 2.5/90mm works against a modern formula.
Here are some shots in comparison.. (to equal the different focal lengths, the position of the Tripod was slightly changed)
TOP= Lanthar, Down = Tokina
Crop of both..
Not that big difference..
Here are two Crops.. compairing the CA on metallic surfaces..
Left Lanthar, right Tokina..
and this was the sujet in total..
I think you can forget this CA / Purple fringing..
But one thing i realized seemed to be important... a bit of glowing on edges on the Tokina..
First the complete scene..
And now crops out of this.. top= APO Lanthar, bottom= Tokina AT-X
For my eyes, there is not such a big difference in Lanthar and the Bokina in terms of optical quality. (always left Lanthar.. shown)
Not to run in the risk with APO Lanthar owner, i must say.. the Lanthar is a great lens.. indeed. But the optical difference for me is to small, to pay the difference in price of about 1.000 Euro for this Lanthar. For sure, the Lanthar is the overall better lens in terms of CA correction, glowing and colorrendering
but
the Tokina is very close, for a 25 Years old product.
During my test shots i did have many electronic faults with the Lanthar..
ERR01.. on display..
After removing the Lanthar, switch off the cam and repeat sometimes up to 3 times the procedere, the Lanthar works again.
So me, i decided to keep my Tokina in my bag. The APO Lanthar is a great lens.. of course, but for me, there is a lot of "HYPE" with this Lanthar.
Cheers
Henry _________________ some light-painting lens stuff..
... and an EOS 5D MKII
www.digicamclub.de |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
An interesting set of tests, Henry. Considering the price difference and the number of errors you were getting, I'm afraid I'd have trouble justifying the expense of the Lanthar also.
The Lanthar appears to provide a higher contrast image, which might be illustrated best by the Tokina's edge glow and the Lanthar's lack of it. A bit of purple fringing with the Tokina, which can be fixed easily enough, but they appear to be very close in terms of sharpness. _________________ Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/ |
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lauge
Joined: 14 Jun 2008 Posts: 101 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Expire: 2013-05-30
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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lauge wrote:
I am really amazed by the Tokina and even more by the Lanthar, how did they manage to make such well corrected lens and are there any macro lens out there that equals its low CA? Zeiss Macro-Planar?
About the Kiron, this proves my worst fears about this lens, my test showed same results in fact my Takumar 50/1.4 with extension tubes were sharper in some instances. And I thought my findings had to do with a bad MD->MAF adapter that has some play on the MAF side, well that could also be a factor but it seems it doesn't account for all the sharpness. The Kiron still have very pleasant color rendering on my KM5D though so it's still my preferred lens for macro _________________ M42:
S-M-C Takumar: 3.5/28 1.4/50 2.8/105
USSR: Industar 61L/Z
CZJ: Flektogon 2.4/35
MD:
Rokkor: 35-70/3.5
Kiron: 2.8/105 Macro
OM:
Zuiko: 50/1.8 75-150/4
Sigma: 24/2.8
Cameras:
Asahi Spotmatic F (looking for a sample with working light meter)
Olympus OM-1
Zeiss Ikon Contaflex IV
NEX 7 Sony A55 Konica Minolta Dynax 5D Minolta Dynax 7 Minolta AF 7000 |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
cooltouch wrote: |
A bit of purple fringing with the Tokina, which can be fixed easily enough, but they appear to be very close in terms of sharpness. |
I've said this before, but you can't correct longitudinal CA or purple fringing when it's superimposed on your main subject (in case of macro shots). When you try to desatureate it you mess up the subject as well... This, and the glow makes the Tokina less usable wide open.
Not that you'd shoot scenes like this very often, but I think the Tokina wouldn't look as good here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/810600/7#7736422 |
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symphonic
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 550 Location: SE Europe, Croatia
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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symphonic wrote:
This lens is quite scarce on ebay and basicly everywhere else, I've never seen one in several times I looked recently. Is this because it was made in a small number of copies or because the people don't ever think of selling theirs? _________________ Toni,
EOS 450D
CZJ Sonnar 135/3.5 MC | Pancolar 50/1.8 MC
Contax Planar 50/1.4 AEJ | Contax Sonnar 135/2.8 AEJ
Yashica ML 28/2.8 | Zuiko 28/3.5
Vivitar Series1 105/2.5 OM
AF: Tokina 12-24 |
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JerryMK
Joined: 16 Apr 2009 Posts: 98
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMK wrote:
symphonic wrote: |
This lens is quite scarce on ebay and basicly everywhere else, I've never seen one in several times I looked recently. Is this because it was made in a small number of copies or because the people don't ever think of selling theirs? |
Keep looking! I sold three of them already on Ebay. Kept one and will never sell that on |
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JerryMK
Joined: 16 Apr 2009 Posts: 98
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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JerryMK wrote:
symphonic wrote: |
This lens is quite scarce on ebay and basicly everywhere else, I've never seen one in several times I looked recently. Is this because it was made in a small number of copies or because the people don't ever think of selling theirs? |
Keep looking! I sold three of them already on Ebay. Kept one and will never sell that on |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
I may sell mine some time, but it's an unconverted FD version (so close-up/macro only). That also means the price will be pretty low of course.
I have to to try some replacements first though (I have one or two in mind). |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
AhamB wrote: |
cooltouch wrote: |
A bit of purple fringing with the Tokina, which can be fixed easily enough, but they appear to be very close in terms of sharpness. |
I've said this before, but you can't correct longitudinal CA or purple fringing when it's superimposed on your main subject (in case of macro shots). When you try to desatureate it you mess up the subject as well... This, and the glow makes the Tokina less usable wide open. |
I agree about the glow, but I'm not sure I'm in complete agreement with your comments regarding CA. So I d/l'd your Opel badge comparision and tried the one-click purple fringe fix in Paint Shop Pro. And got this:
If you zoom in to 200% or so you can still see a tiny amount of purple fringing, but it's gone for all practical purposes.
Or was I misunderstanding your original comment? Because the above was what I meant about getting rid of the purple fringing. _________________ Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/ |
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AhamB
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 733 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:30 am Post subject: |
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AhamB wrote:
cooltouch wrote: |
Or was I misunderstanding your original comment? Because the above was what I meant about getting rid of the purple fringing. |
Yeah, it's gone there and that's indeed an example where PF correction can actually be done basically non-destructively. I was talking about LoCA in macro shots however, where the CA is spread out over a larger area. which includes the subject and/or coloured background which you don't want to desaturate.
I must say though that this has played up more strongly when I was using the Tokina on a crop camera (40D) -- it's better on my 5D.
I'll see if I can turn up a few shots from my 40D that demonstrate what I'm talking about. |
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cooltouch
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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cooltouch wrote:
AhamB wrote: |
I was talking about LoCA in macro shots however, where the CA is spread out over a larger area. which includes the subject and/or coloured background which you don't want to desaturate.
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Okay, I follow you. In fact, I have run into this sort of thing before, but it wasn't really caused by the lens in my case. It was a quirk of the film, or perhaps the scanner, where backlit subjects -- tree branches in winter -- took on a red tinge. It was extremely difficult getting rid of this. Paint Shop Pro also has a CA correction filter where you can zero in on exactly what color you want removed, but if there is any of that color in an area of the photo you don't want messed with, well, too bad! I guess you're talking more about that sort of situation, eh? _________________ Michael
My Gear List: http://michaelmcbroom.com/photo/gear.html
My Gallery: http://michaelmcbroom.com/gallery3/index.php/
My Flickr Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/11308754@N08/albums
My Music: https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums
My Blog: http://michaelmcbroom.com/blogistan/ |
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Nelson
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 618 Location: close to Paris, France
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Nelson wrote:
I may need your advices
I am planning to convert an FD AT-X to EF _________________ DSLR : EOS 350D, 300D, 7D, 5D
Pentacon 50 f1.8, 135 f2.8, 200 f4;
TAIR 3S
Helios 44/2
Meyer Optik Orestegor 200mm f4 Orestegor 300mm f4
Tamron 24mm f2.5 01B, 300mm f5.6 670Au, 75 250, 300mm f5.6 SP 54B, 500mm f8 SP 55B, SP 70 210 3.5, SP 60 300
my MF lenses
EF 50 1.8 I, EF 100macro f2.8, EF 70-200 F4 L is, EFS 17-55 f2.8 is, Sigma 10-20 EX, 18-50 2.8 EX, 300 f4 hsm, 400 5.6 hsm |
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Nelson
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Posts: 618 Location: close to Paris, France
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Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nelson wrote:
the tamron in impressive ! _________________ DSLR : EOS 350D, 300D, 7D, 5D
Pentacon 50 f1.8, 135 f2.8, 200 f4;
TAIR 3S
Helios 44/2
Meyer Optik Orestegor 200mm f4 Orestegor 300mm f4
Tamron 24mm f2.5 01B, 300mm f5.6 670Au, 75 250, 300mm f5.6 SP 54B, 500mm f8 SP 55B, SP 70 210 3.5, SP 60 300
my MF lenses
EF 50 1.8 I, EF 100macro f2.8, EF 70-200 F4 L is, EFS 17-55 f2.8 is, Sigma 10-20 EX, 18-50 2.8 EX, 300 f4 hsm, 400 5.6 hsm |
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jetulio
Joined: 03 May 2013 Posts: 3 Location: Spain
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 10:15 am Post subject: |
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jetulio wrote:
Hi. After reading this a other posts about this lens, I finally managed to buy one in mint condition at ebay. It's a FD mount one and I use it on a nex-6 with an adapter. Here are my first shots, just for checking. Hopefully I'll learn more about using it and will improve the results, but it's quite amazing:
_DSC5861 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5842 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5852 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5790 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5860 por Jetulio, en Flickr
Regards |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3705 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
jetulio wrote: |
Hi. After reading this a other posts about this lens, I finally managed to buy one in mint condition at ebay. It's a FD mount one and I use it on a nex-6 with an adapter. Here are my first shots, just for checking. Hopefully I'll learn more about using it and will improve the results, but it's quite amazing:
_DSC5861 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5842 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5852 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5790 por Jetulio, en Flickr
_DSC5860 por Jetulio, en Flickr
Regards |
_________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
The NEX is a very good camera to use with this lens. Do you have the CA control option enabled in your NEX? I find it amazing how well it works; it has made several of my lenses nearly perfect. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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jetulio
Joined: 03 May 2013 Posts: 3 Location: Spain
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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jetulio wrote:
woodrim wrote: |
The NEX is a very good camera to use with this lens. Do you have the CA control option enabled in your NEX? I find it amazing how well it works; it has made several of my lenses nearly perfect. |
Aha, the CA... maybe. Sorry about my ignorance, but, what is that? I use the focus peaking option but it works for me better the MF assist.
Pancolart, thanks for uploading my photos properly, as I'm having problems to insert them and don't know why.
Regards |
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jetulio
Joined: 03 May 2013 Posts: 3 Location: Spain
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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jetulio wrote:
jetulio wrote: |
woodrim wrote: |
The NEX is a very good camera to use with this lens. Do you have the CA control option enabled in your NEX? I find it amazing how well it works; it has made several of my lenses nearly perfect. |
Aha, the CA... maybe. Sorry about my ignorance, but, what is that? I use the focus peaking option but it works for me better the MF assist.
Pancolart, thanks for uploading my photos properly, as I'm having problems to insert them and don't know why.
Regards |
Is it maybe a Color Aberration correction? I always use RAW files, so I think that doesn't affect, does it? |
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