Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!
SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

The ultimate M42 lens? Kinoptik Apo 2/100mm
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: The ultimate M42 lens? Kinoptik Apo 2/100mm Reply with quote
Seen here Click here to see on Ebay and heard about it, but never actually seen before.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A bit pricey for me. =)


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's nice lens for a collector, but I doubt it performs better than 125/2.5 APO Lanthar, which costs 40% of this lens (including VAT Wink ).


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is the second time i see this lens (the first one i saw was in better conditions than this one and a bit cheaper), but it's still too expensive for me ...
If i had this cash available, i would get the Apo Lanthars 90 and 125, or a Zeiss Makro-Planar 100/2 ...

Cheers


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, that's expensive.
I doubt that this lens is worth it, only perhaps for collectors who really want to have exactly this version.

There are many new lenses (that have been named here) for less money which are surely at least as good.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't say that writing on the bottom "Made in Japan" ?

Looks like somebody glued that upper part
to an "normal" 135mm M42 body.
Question


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
...plus the zebra ring doesn't fit bottom parts at all, does it?
(maybe I am wrong; please correct me, if so)


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, it's a "fake" in my book. Kinoptik lens head grafted on to some nonedescript Japanese/Korean mounting.

I think this is an out-and-out fraud from the point of view of a buyer, and I wonder if the vendor is aware of what it is ...


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just emailed him to ask if it's genuine.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:
Yes, it's a "fake" in my book. Kinoptik lens head grafted on to some nonedescript Japanese/Korean mounting.

I think this is an out-and-out fraud from the point of view of a buyer, and I wonder if the vendor is aware of what it is ...


Brilliant! It's an Apochromatoptomax Laughing Laughing Laughing


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess the question is why would someone maim the genuine article to make that?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here I found some info on those real Kinoptiks Smile
http://alag3.mfa.kfki.hu/astro/giantlenses/50mm.htm#Kinoptik_Apochromat_Alpa_D50mm_F2_f100mm_01

here
http://www.alpareflex.com/Lenses/Kinoptik_100mm.htm

and here
http://www.thaidphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69888

...those look really different, even if you compare only the top part.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep, now that I look at the pictures and not just the price, the lens being sold looks very shoddy; all sorts of different screws, many of which look like they've been put in rather crudely by some amateur. Even if the glass inside was from the real thing, no way is it worth that much even to a collector.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hello....of course it is only a lens head which was re-mounted into a japanese lens barrel (from teh zebra ring downwards). This is a pretty common way to get such lenses onto a DSLR.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Beware with this seller!

I bought a lens from him (Minolta 28 f/2 MD) and NEVER received, he even doesn't speak english!!!...I just can't understand what he says... this is SO wrong and it pissed me off so badly that I want to just forget it


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ivan Lee wrote:
Beware with this seller!


This seller also breaks the eBay rules with his VAT-demands. I've complained to eBay a couple of times, and as usual, nothing's been done by them...

Anyhow, no offense meant to our polish friends, but Poland is among my "never-buy-from" (virtual) list on eBay...


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anu wrote:

This seller also breaks the eBay rules with his VAT-demands.


I was also under the impression that the VAT demand was against eBay policy, and was meaning to file complaint about this very seller the other day (he had some other lens that turned up in my search but way overpriced even without the VAT). I couldn't find this explicitly stated in the eBay rules with brief googling, however, so I gave up…


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's not even for a collector of any interest with this crude conversion
done.

Merry Christmas to all

Klaus


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The lens body looks very familiar, maybe tokina designed, I'm sure I've seen it with a Mitsuki badge on but if it is just needed as a means to make the lens work on an slr then it's no so bad but the seller apparently doesn't know either way.


Looks like someone has bought it!


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anu wrote:
Ivan Lee wrote:
Beware with this seller!


This seller also breaks the eBay rules with his VAT-demands. I've complained to eBay a couple of times, and as usual, nothing's been done by them...

Anyhow, no offense meant to our polish friends, but Poland is among my "never-buy-from" (virtual) list on eBay...


Well, if he is a registered seller, he has to pay VAT by law if he sells within the EU. ebay does not
have an option to add VAT within and leave it out outside the EU (export). It gets even more
complicated if an EU buyer has a valid tax exemption ID so he has not to pay VAT.

Guys, I would with all due respect kindly ask to do your homework first, so you know what you talk
about before shooting such words at a seller...thanks.

And there are very professional sellers in Poland where I buy since years and I was always satisfied with what I got.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Well, if he is a registered seller, he has to pay VAT by law if he sells within the EU. ebay does not have an option to add VAT within and leave it out outside the EU (export). It gets even more
complicated if an EU buyer has a valid tax exemption ID so he has not to pay VAT.


True, but it's still a misleading way to do it on eBay, i.e. the displayed price is lower than what you'd actually have to pay. (Some countries may even have legislation against stores presenting VAT-less prices to consumers in advertising.) The proper way to do it would be to show the price with VAT and discount it for buyers where applicable.

(Similarly PayPal explicitly forbids sellers from asking a surcharge when paying with PayPal; again the proper way to do it is to discount the price for bank transfer or such. It may seem like another way of doing the same thing, but there's a big difference in how it looks to the buyer, especially when we are talking about a 19% VAT.)

In my opinion, if eBay allows VAT-less prices to be listed, they need to show this in the search results (e.g. "EU VAT +19%"), or otherwise sellers like this will have an unfair advantage compared to EU sellers displaying prices including VAT.

kds315* wrote:

Guys, I would with all due respect kindly ask to do your homework first, so you know what you talk
about before shooting such words at a seller...thanks.


Well, boycotting entire Poland because of this may be over the top, but this began when Ivan Lee related a bad personal experience regarding this particular seller.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have exactly the same body: REVUENON-SPECIAL 2.8/135mm. Upper part replaced by seller obviously. If the conversion is working still a nice job, but definitely too pricey and buyers should be given explanation.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:


Well, if he is a registered seller, he has to pay VAT by law if he sells within the EU. ebay does not
have an option to add VAT within and leave it out outside the EU (export). It gets even more
complicated if an EU buyer has a valid tax exemption ID so he has not to pay VAT.

I had to recheck eBay - in two different places they have somewhat confusing statements regarding adding VAT to the price, but evidently it seems that my original statement is incorrect and that one is actually allowed to add VAT to the price. I am sorry for all the confusion I created.

These can be added to the price according to eBay-help files:
Tax and government imposed fees: Only applicable duties, VAT or equivalent taxes may be charged


Quote:

Guys, I would with all due respect kindly ask to do your homework first, so you know what you talk
about before shooting such words at a seller...thanks.

Sometimes it is a bit hard to figure out what the eBay rules are as they are rather confusing, and since the rules are broken quite often, it is easy to do what I did: an error. But at least I prooved that I am a human.

Quote:

And there are very professional sellers in Poland where I buy since years and I was always satisfied with what I got.


Yes of course there are. Nothing against Poland or Poles - it's just that certain countries seem to have more bad sellers than others - I don't buy anything expensive from the US either Smile


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To the best of my knowledge, in "real" auctions in the UK, the price paid by the highest bidder FOR THE ITEM ITSELF is the actual figure when "the hammer falls". Value Added Tax (VAT, = to Sales Tax) is added by the auctioneer ONLY to any commissions which are charged BY HIM to the highest bidder, i.e. the buyer. These are called the "buyer's premium" and are typically 15%. So, in that case, if an item sells for £100, then the buyer pays a commission to the auctioneer of 15% of £100 - £15 - PLUS the VAT percentage, which is currently 15%. A total of £(15 + 2.25) = £17.25. His final cost is £117.25, but VAT makes up only a small fraction.

I can't say if other EU countries have a similar scheme.

UK traders who are registered for VAT normally come under a "Special Scheme" and pay the tax only on their margin between buying and selling prices. If an item is bought for £100 and sold for £200, then VAT is paid only on the £100 margin. This would apply equally to traders selling on eBay, over the counter or by mail order. Ebay fees would reduce the final receipt for the item and so lower the margin. VAT should not be added at point of sale by any trader using that "Special Scheme".

Well, that's my Christmas contribution to MF lenses - now it's time for dinner Very Happy


PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
scsambrook wrote:

I can't say if other EU countries have a similar scheme.


There is no VAT on antiques and collectibles out of personal property, any potential profit on them being speculative rather than productive (with exceptions - if the authorities catch a dealer creating a artificial market they may VAT him). The services of the auctioneer however are subject to VAT, and any of his charges must hence contain it.

By general EU and/or Euro zone regulations, it is a legal requirement that all prices published towards consumers/end users must be VAT inclusive - only purely business to business prices (and a disclaimer "won't sell to individuals" does not qualify unless the seller has established mechanisms that actually prevent purchases by consumers) may be listed without.

Sevo
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Home   Manual Focus Lenses
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2