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THE IMAGE MATTERS NOT THE LENS.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: THE IMAGE MATTERS NOT THE LENS. Reply with quote
I bought a couple of lenses of ebay my first foray into the MF world and I was hooked the first cost me a £5 and was a PENTACON PRAKTICAR f1.8 with a bit of fungus and dust not mint but wanted to see what I could do with it heres our cat taken with the cheapo lens and my EPL1 .
Next was a night shot using a OLYMPUS M. ZUIKO 50mm f 1.8 ISO 200 6 sec exp auto wb.
cost me not a lot and much better than that plastic kit lens that came with the EPL1.
So I guess its not the lens that matters so much as what is acheivable with that lens .
And for me Prakticar lenses seem to work well with the EPL 1 why I don't know they just do
the Olympus took awhhile to get this shot not helped by the poor lcd screen resolution so evf is next.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
True enough. It's not the wand, it's the wizard.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Generally speaking you are right.

Look at your nice pics. They haven't light compromise, nor strong reflexions into the image, background and foreground with different intensity of colors, light, etc.

In that good conditions, almos all 50 mm lens will rendering OK, like yours did.

But when another focal lenghts are neccesary, or the light is not so simple, and in millions of circunstances, the IQ of the different lenses will give to us different images, with it own character. And so.

Anyways, buying, trying, comment and use different lenses is a game among adults. There are a lot of things that are over the table when we see the new toy/lens/camera.

I only say enjoy.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Daveg, please do not make all-capitals thread titles from now on. We consider that bad netiquette. Thank you.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In theory, Dave, I agree what you have to say. I've seen excellent photos taken with simple P&S film cameras, and it was because the photographer had a good eye and knew hot to compose a photo for maximum effect. But if the simple P&S camera had not been able to render respectably sharp and correctly exposed images, these faults would have damaged the quality of the photos. Sure, the photographer's skills would still have shone through, but in the real world that isn't enough if the other aspects aren't up to par. If I were a photo editor and saw photos like I'm describing, I would have told someone to get that guy (or gal) a decent camera, and I would've sent him back out and told him to do it over. That's life in the real world. So all I'm saying is, yes, in theory you're correct. And in your case, you did good. You found some very nice (and cheap) mf lenses that largely go ignored nowadays, simply because they don't autofocus, or they're an obscure mount, or they're not a popular focal length -- whatever. You've begun to discover the attraction we have to mf lenses. They still have so much to offer. And in the hands of a talented photographer -- many of whom are members here -- they can yield great results.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obviously photos are the goal, but lenses (and cameras) are the way to get there.
You yourself chose a good camera, and felt the difference between the cheaply made (I guess) kit lens and two well considered vintage fast normals, even if cheap ones.
So you can take beautiful pics with a plastic lens, if that's what you have, but having the perfect tools for the task will help you get better results.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it is very important to enjoy the lens and photography no matter if how much your equipment cost. It will be no harm if you get a better lens or camera which help you get better result from your unlimited creativity.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes and no.

A couple of examples, nature photographers rely a great deal on the length and quality of their lenses. I do a bit of architectural and interiors photography where distortion correction and limiting CA are vitally important and, short of a technical camera, can only be achieved with a 17mm shift lens on Full Frame.

Of course without a vision of what you want to achieve, equipment is all pointless. One of the most satisfying print sales I've made was of one of my first shots with a Lensbaby, at ISO1250 on a 2003 vintage DSLR where almost nothing was truly sharp and anything that might have been was cloaked in noise!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
barryreid wrote:
I do a bit of architectural and interiors photography where distortion correction and limiting CA are vitally important and, short of a technical camera, can only be achieved with a 17mm shift lens on Full Frame.


Only?

Not really, I did this a couple of days ago with a 2.8/35 lens on an APS-C camera, it's stitched from 12 images.



Equipment comes a distant second to technique, especially now that software has enabled many new techniques.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The artist is what truly matters, you are right.

But the artist also likes to select the brush that suits them best. That brush may be different for every person, so it also becomes important for the artist community to understand what the different kinds of brushes are so they know the choices available to them. There is no right and wrong brush, no best brush, and no worst brush. For many artistic styles, the type of brush matters little, and for other styles, it matters a lot. For some, it's about the technical capabilities of the brush, and for others, it's about the sentimental value of the brush or the fun in handling it.

And in the end, yes, it's what you do with that brush which makes art, not the brush itself. Most artists have a preference of brush, but can still make art with any brush.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Umm, my post didn't quite come out as intended, there I was basically trying to say that there are certain circumstances the results can only be achieved using particular equipment and not only when image 'quality' is vital - that's why I added the lens baby bit i.e. sometimes the opposite of 'high quality' works well too.

What wuxiekeji said, much better, basically

Jeez, that's what I get for dashing something in gaps between doing my 'proper' work, which hopefully isn't as slapdash . Confused


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Glad you've caught the same bug the rest of us had for a while Very Happy

To me personally, MF stuff is like driving stick- you know you're in control over everything, and you get off of that feeling. And then just like a car, tires, even the shift knob- they all have to be in harmony of your ideal combination for you to truly feel and enjoy them.

Try to find that one lens that will feel just right for your daily basis and then you'll enjoy every snap so much more.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
is the cat wearing coloured contacts Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
photography is purely a hobby for me. Once the image is taken, maybe tweaked somewhat in PP, it is done with. Yes, if I get some positive comment later I feel good about it, but basically a photos is history once it had been taken, but the moment and action, while I was taking it, remains. The product, the photo, is a mere reminder of it.
The moments of life while taking the photo is more important to me than the result. The equipment used, how much I enjoyed using it and how well I used it to make best use of whichever lens or camera it is are important first and the final result being satisfactory is a gratification that I thrive for. Or to put it bluntly, as a hobbyist, I disagree, the image is not all that matters, but so does the lens and camera used, and more so the experience taking it Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the equipment might be of importance, but not the amount of bucks you spend on it. Still, a good photographer can make interesting pictures even with crappy equipment.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess for me at least its a way of being in more control over the outcome and to me photograpghs are a reminder of the things ,places and people I want to remember .I could'nt shoot for shit a month back so I decided to be in control of the ISO's and ev's and get some pleasure out of a camera that was gifted to me from someone who could not get past the lens lock.
But I sometimes feel that there is lens snobberey even in MF I may be wrong but to me theres nothing that gives me more satisfaction than getting a GREAT shot from such a cheap set up that anyone would be proud to display.
And I will still quote its the image and not always the equipment that matters . Sure a $1000 camera is going to possibly outperform a $100 camera but its all the same means to an end THE RESULT. Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
photography is purely a hobby for me. Once the image is taken, maybe tweaked somewhat in PP, it is done with. Yes, if I get some positive comment later I feel good about it, but basically a photos is history once it had been taken, but the moment and action, while I was taking it, remains. The product, the photo, is a mere reminder of it.
The moments of life while taking the photo is more important to me than the result. The equipment used, how much I enjoyed using it and how well I used it to make best use of whichever lens or camera it is are important first and the final result being satisfactory is a gratification that I thrive for. Or to put it bluntly, as a hobbyist, I disagree, the image is not all that matters, but so does the lens and camera used, and more so the experience taking it Wink


Couldn't have said it better!


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No pp was done on my shots only cropped in if need be but thats exactly what I saw when I took the shot. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DAVEG wrote:
No pp was done on my shots only cropped in if need be but thats exactly what I saw when I took the shot. Wink

Sometimes to recreate what you saw pp is necessary.
For example, my eyes+brain show a much higher dynamic range than any lens-camera I've tried


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes not saying pp is not a necessity just I try not to use it if I can .
still waiting for the PRINZ GALAXY 400mm to arrive may be tomorrow then I see what I can do with it and the matching tc if needed. Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
barryreid wrote:
Umm, my post didn't quite come out as intended, there I was basically trying to say that there are certain circumstances the results can only be achieved using particular equipment and not only when image 'quality' is vital - that's why I added the lens baby bit i.e. sometimes the opposite of 'high quality' works well too.

What wuxiekeji said, much better, basically

Jeez, that's what I get for dashing something in gaps between doing my 'proper' work, which hopefully isn't as slapdash . Confused


It's all good Barry, and I agree with you, sometimes the opposite of HQ works well. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:
Obviously photos are the goal, but lenses (and cameras) are the way to get there.
You yourself chose a good camera, and felt the difference between the cheaply made (I guess) kit lens and two well considered vintage fast normals, even if cheap ones.
So you can take beautiful pics with a plastic lens, if that's what you have, but having the perfect tools for the task will help you get better results.


Perhaps is not so obvious. For somebody (me) the lenses itselves have a beautiness that makes them an object to have. And if can take good photos, better.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
photography is purely a hobby for me. Once the image is taken, maybe tweaked somewhat in PP, it is done with. Yes, if I get some positive comment later I feel good about it, but basically a photos is history once it had been taken, but the moment and action, while I was taking it, remains. The product, the photo, is a mere reminder of it.
The moments of life while taking the photo is more important to me than the result. The equipment used, how much I enjoyed using it and how well I used it to make best use of whichever lens or camera it is are important first and the final result being satisfactory is a gratification that I thrive for. Or to put it bluntly, as a hobbyist, I disagree, the image is not all that matters, but so does the lens and camera used, and more so the experience taking it Wink


This is so very true, and is not something that I even became aware of until a few years ago. My peak period of photo activity occurred between the years of 1983 and 1994. During those years, I was shooting at least a few rolls of week, during a week where there was an event I was interested in -- like an auto race or an airshow -- the amount of photos I'd take would quadruple or more. But now, here it is, some 20 to 30 years later, and when I look at the photos I took back then, I am instead struck by the amount of time that has passed from then to now. My photos have become important to me, and perhaps to others, as records of situations and events gone by that will never be seen again. So nowadays when I'm out and about shooting, I tend to keep the thought of historical importance in the back of my mind. I believe it helps with my composition. It prevents me from getting in a hurry and taking a shot that's "good enough" and instead makes me wait to get the shot that's just right. Call it experience, or wisdom, or just a bit of dumb luck, I believe that it does make a difference, and that it is really only something that can be grasped because of the passage of time.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:

Sometimes to recreate what you saw pp is necessary.
For example, my eyes+brain show a much higher dynamic range than any lens-camera I've tried


I am pushed to fire the shutter by a feeling, and the reproduction of that feeling in the final image is more important
to me than the reproduction of what I saw.

I am speaking of course of my personal images, not of any images that I made for a job (in which case the requirements
of the job have absolute priority).


PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
Aanything wrote:

Sometimes to recreate what you saw pp is necessary.
For example, my eyes+brain show a much higher dynamic range than any lens-camera I've tried


I am pushed to fire the shutter by a feeling, and the reproduction of that feeling in the final image is more important
to me than the reproduction of what I saw.

I am speaking of course of my personal images, not of any images that I made for a job (in which case the requirements
of the job have absolute priority).


I agree with that, and I think that, in some cases, a little PP can help you achieve that too.
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