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Tele-Tessar 300mm f/4 vs Canon 400mm f/5.6L
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Tele-Tessar 300mm f/4 vs Canon 400mm f/5.6L Reply with quote
Trying to get rid of my Canon 70-300 since I'm rather unhappy with the image at the long end, and I've only ever pulled out that lens to shoot at the long end. I have plenty of fantastic lenses to cover at the short end, like Samyang 85/1.4, Zeiss Sonnar 135/2.8 and so I really don't need much of the short end of the 70-300; I'd rather have a good long prime. I also generally don't use zooms and love shooting wide open.

Figure this is the right place to ask, since I'm a heavy MF user. Price aside, and autofocus aside (which is why I'm asking here), purely from an image standpoint, given a choice between a Tele-Tessar 300mm f/4 vs Canon 400mm f/5.6L, which would you choose, from a image quality standpoint? And are there any other vintage contenders in this general category?


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Welcome!

Orio had one Tele-Tessar it had horrible CA if I remember as well. I don't have much clue about Canons.
I was happy with following 300mm f4-f5.6 lenses.

Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 300mm f4 MC
Nikon 300mm f4.5 AIS IF
Nikon 300mm f4.5 AI
Tair 300mm f4.5
SMC Pentax 300mm f4


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good point about the CA ... though I don't think I've seen Sonnar 300 in Contax mount (does it exist?) so I can put a Leitax adapter on it. I'm a little nervous using a cheap adapter with a heavy lens ... not to mention the difficulty manual focusing with the adapter play.

I haven't really ventured into Pentacon and M42 territory, how sturdy are the EOS adapters in that area?


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I confirm my bad experience with a brand new Tele-Tessar 300
If you can find one (not easy) I would recommend a Vario-Sonnar 100-300 Contax
Be prepared to spend though.
For cheaper alternatives, the list made by Attila is good.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
+1 to the Vario-Sonnar 100-300mm, it's my favourite long lens now.

If you want something in the 400mm region, I would suggest a Canon 300/4L + 1.4x TC. Newer long teles are unbeatable for CA and resolution. The 100-400L is OK but not sharp until f/7.1 @ 400mm (at least in my copy).

I'm yet to try a Zeiss Tele-Tessar 300/4, but I've seen a few reports like Orio's so it's not really interested me. The CZJ Sonnar 300/4 has CA issues on digital as well.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd go for a Tair-3, very sharp even wide open at 4.5 and I haven't found any CA at all with my copy. For the price, it's a no-brainer imho.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Canon 5.6/400mm has a very good IQ.
I price is not an issue, I would go for the Canon and buy a Taïr 300mm, 10x less pricey, just for fun and comparison. Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks all!

On a side note, as far as budget 300's go, what's the general verdict on CZJ Sonnar 4/300 vs. Tair-3 in the categories of (a) contrast (b) CA (c) sharpness?

Tair-3 is a no-brainer price-wise, but even at low price, I'd rather avoid buying two 300's since the worse of the two would then end up taking up shelf space doing nothing ... just want to avoid accummulating monster-size stuff unless I actually use it Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
wuxiekeji wrote:
Thanks all!

On a side note, as far as budget 300's go, what's the general verdict on CZJ Sonnar 4/300 vs. Tair-3 in the categories of (a) contrast (b) CA (c) sharpness?

Tair-3 is a no-brainer price-wise, but even at low price, I'd rather avoid buying two 300's since the worse of the two would then end up taking up shelf space doing nothing ... just want to avoid accummulating monster-size stuff unless I actually use it Wink


My Tair 3 is good as Sonnar.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
wuxiekeji wrote:
Thanks all!

On a side note, as far as budget 300's go, what's the general verdict on CZJ Sonnar 4/300 vs. Tair-3 in the categories of (a) contrast (b) CA (c) sharpness?

Tair-3 is a no-brainer price-wise, but even at low price, I'd rather avoid buying two 300's since the worse of the two would then end up taking up shelf space doing nothing ... just want to avoid accummulating monster-size stuff unless I actually use it Wink


My Tair 3 is good as Sonnar.


I can confirm also that Tair-3 is a very good lens.
Have it with the Photosniper.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another +1 on the Tair 3. Lovely lens, and the focus mechanism and Location are what all long lenses should use. I have far more keepers with this than my beloved Pentacon 300/4.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't have that fancy focus mechanism on my Tair-3 but it's still a fantastic bit of kit. Another vote Wink


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Canon EF 400mm f5.6 L does very well wide open,and one of my favorite 400mm lenses....that said,I have a Canon EF 300mm f4 L non-IS that does almost as well wide open with a 1.4 TC....in fact in would be hard for me not to recommend the Canon EF 300 f4 L...it's an amazing lens, that is stunningly sharp wide open.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Boomer Depp wrote:
The Canon EF 400mm f5.6 L does very well wide open,and one of my favorite 400mm lenses....that said,I have a Canon EF 300mm f4 L non-IS that does almost as well wide open with a 1.4 TC....in fact in would be hard for me not to recommend the Canon EF 300 f4 L...it's an amazing lens, that is stunningly sharp wide open.


Thanks again all! Chances are I'll eventually get the Canon 400 f/5.6 L (though they come by rather rarely on used markets so I may have to wait a little while ...) and get a old-school 300ish of some sort to play with. Probably Tair-3. Buying both Canons 400L and 300L is a bit beyond my budget though.

But before I go around trying to hit the trigger on these, If I may ask another couple more hypothetical question about this topic ... What about:

- Tair-3 vs. Leica 250/4 Telyt-R

- Canon 400 vs Leica 400/6.8 Telyt-R?

Anyone ever done a side-by-side of these pairs?


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wuxiekeji wrote:
Boomer Depp wrote:
The Canon EF 400mm f5.6 L does very well wide open,and one of my favorite 400mm lenses....that said,I have a Canon EF 300mm f4 L non-IS that does almost as well wide open with a 1.4 TC....in fact in would be hard for me not to recommend the Canon EF 300 f4 L...it's an amazing lens, that is stunningly sharp wide open.


Thanks again all! Chances are I'll eventually get the Canon 400 f/5.6 L (though they come by rather rarely on used markets so I may have to wait a little while ...) and get a old-school 300ish of some sort to play with. Probably Tair-3. Buying both Canons 400L and 300L is a bit beyond my budget though.

But before I go around trying to hit the trigger on these, If I may ask another couple more hypothetical question about this topic ... What about:

- Tair-3 vs. Leica 250/4 Telyt-R

- Canon 400 vs Leica 400/6.8 Telyt-R?

Anyone ever done a side-by-side of these pairs?


I don't own a tair-3 unfortunately, but I do own the Telyt-R 250/4, and from the pictures I've seen on this forum, the Tair-3 wins. The Telyt is not a bad lens at all, but the tair-3 seems like a beast from beyond. The telyt has a few things going against it, the weight and the relatively long focus throw. It's a bloody impractical lens most of the time even if the IQ is decent.

I am very happy with my T-noflexar 400/5.6 on my crop body, that one is also a huge frikkin' piece of metal and glass, but atleast it has the same focus pull system that the leica 400/6.8 has, making it a joy to focus on moving objects with.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
NewStuff wrote:
the focus mechanism and Location are what all long lenses should use.

I think you are speaking about the Taïr-3S, sniper version, aren't you ?
The Taïr-3A and Taïr-300A have normal focus mechanism.

I made a comparison between some of my "long guns", including Taïr-3A 4.5/300, Taïr-300A 4.5/300 and Sonnar MC 4/300.

The Sonnar is sharp and detailed from wide open f4 to f16. Then f22 is a bit worse, f32 and f45 are not good... but who cares at these apertures. It is impressive at close distance.
It is a Pentacon-6 mount, with 7 blades. Min focusing distance = 3.90m. Filter diameter = 86mm. Weight = 1580 grs.

The Taïr-3A (Brussels 1958) 4.5/300 gives its best at f8 and f11. It is not as the Sonnar level and its younger brother 300-A. But I like it very much because of its old metal construction and its wonderful preset diagram. It is very good at close distance.
It is an M42 mount, with 16 blades. Min focusing distance = 3.00m. Filter diameter = 70mm. Weight = 1295 grs.

The Taïr-300A 4.5/300 is at its best at f8, f11 and f16. My lens is not at the Sonnar level.
It is an M42 mount, with 16 blades. Min focusing distance = 2.20m. Filter diameter = 81mm. Weight = 1530 grs.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed, the Photosniper version. It's a Tair 3-pHs.

If the light is half-decent tomorrow, I'll tidy up the modified release I made for my 400D, and snap a few shots with it. Hopefully the Helicopter lands in the TA centre over the road from me.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Olivier wrote:
The Taïr-300A 4.5/300 is at its best at f8, f11 and f16. My lens is not at the Sonnar level.
It is an M42 mount, with 16 blades. Min focusing distance = 2.20m. Filter diameter = 81mm. Weight = 1530 grs.


Is the filter diameter not 71mm? Mine is. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
SonicScot wrote:
Olivier wrote:
The Taïr-300A 4.5/300 is at its best at f8, f11 and f16. My lens is not at the Sonnar level.
It is an M42 mount, with 16 blades. Min focusing distance = 2.20m. Filter diameter = 81mm. Weight = 1530 grs.


Is the filter diameter not 71mm? Mine is. Smile

Yes, you're right. 71mm... my finger slipped. Smile


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks all for the recommendations. I ended up going with a Tair-3 after all for the time being (bought it off a forum member actually, should be on the way). Looking forward to playing with it.

Given that I tend to only use 300mm locally with a tripod and all the works, seldom carry long lenses on travel, the weight shouldn't be an issue. Can't wait to see my friends' faces though next time I go out with this monster, they all yak all day about the merits of the latest plastic AF IS lenses, and I can't stand plastic =.= And hopefully assuming it works for me I can sell my 70-300 which has awesome IS and AF but terrible MF and softness at 300, which has kept me from using it much at all.

Still do plan to get the Canon 400/5.6 eventually, when I can find a decent used deal on it, but that can wait ~


PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Congrats.
We're waiting for your samples and friends' faces photos when you'll show them your new toy. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm officially a fan of this Tair-3 lens. Definitely well worth the price, and although the weight and size is nothing compared to my tripod, it does make we wonder why the it needs to be so thick and bulletproof for such little amount of glass Smile Again thanks everyone~




Last edited by wuxiekeji on Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nisseliten wrote:
wuxiekeji wrote:
Boomer Depp wrote:
The Canon EF 400mm f5.6 L does very well wide open,and one of my favorite 400mm lenses....that said,I have a Canon EF 300mm f4 L non-IS that does almost as well wide open with a 1.4 TC....in fact in would be hard for me not to recommend the Canon EF 300 f4 L...it's an amazing lens, that is stunningly sharp wide open.


Thanks again all! Chances are I'll eventually get the Canon 400 f/5.6 L (though they come by rather rarely on used markets so I may have to wait a little while ...) and get a old-school 300ish of some sort to play with. Probably Tair-3. Buying both Canons 400L and 300L is a bit beyond my budget though.

But before I go around trying to hit the trigger on these, If I may ask another couple more hypothetical question about this topic ... What about:

- Tair-3 vs. Leica 250/4 Telyt-R

- Canon 400 vs Leica 400/6.8 Telyt-R?

Anyone ever done a side-by-side of these pairs?


I don't own a tair-3 unfortunately, but I do own the Telyt-R 250/4, and from the pictures I've seen on this forum, the Tair-3 wins. The Telyt is not a bad lens at all, but the tair-3 seems like a beast from beyond. The telyt has a few things going against it, the weight and the relatively long focus throw. It's a bloody impractical lens most of the time even if the IQ is decent.

I am very happy with my T-noflexar 400/5.6 on my crop body, that one is also a huge frikkin' piece of metal and glass, but atleast it has the same focus pull system that the leica 400/6.8 has, making it a joy to focus on moving objects with.


Which version of the 250mm Telyt-R do you have? Your complaints make it sound like you own the first one. The second one is lighter (despite having one more element) and much easier to focus.
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