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Take care when cleaning lens from fungus
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I can assure you the zippo fluid removed outer coating on early 35mm 1.8 rokkor , so please ,be all careful with it, might be a good idea to have a thread related on what solvents should be avoided on sensible lenses, as the damage is irremediable.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Is it true that zippo fluid might remove coatings instantly on some lenses ?


kiddo wrote:
Well, I can assure you the zippo fluid removed outer coating on early 35mm 1.8 rokkor , so please ,be all careful with it, might be a good idea to have a thread related on what solvents should be avoided on sensible lenses, as the damage is irremediable.


Well if you already knew the answer...


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
Well, I can assure you the zippo fluid removed outer coating on early 35mm 1.8 rokkor , so please ,be all careful with it, might be a good idea to have a thread related on what solvents should be avoided on sensible lenses, as the damage is irremediable.


I would be careful with any solvent that isn't designed for cleaning lenses or known to be used for cleaning lenses.

Distilled water, pure isopropyl alcohol (virtually impossible, but 99.9% will do), pure acetone and ether are all knows solvents used in commercial lens cleaning/manufacturing facilities.

Commercial lens cleaning solutions safe for AR coatings usually have both distilled water and IPA as their main constituents, often with some other additives.

Zippo is a lighter fluid, which is (probably) largely naphta with other additives and/or residues. Neither designed for cleaning lenses nor advised for cleaning lenses I think...

Having said all that, it is sometimes possible to mistake residues left behind for a coating having been removed. Especially if the solvent dissolves some of the materials used in the cleaning cloth and leaves them behind as a residue on the lens. Zippo fluid would be a prime candidate for that, e.g. if a lens cleaning cloth has a manufacturers mark printed on it, Zippo could easily dissolve that and leave streaks on the glass.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
kiddo wrote:
Is it true that zippo fluid might remove coatings instantly on some lenses ?


kiddo wrote:
Well, I can assure you the zippo fluid removed outer coating on early 35mm 1.8 rokkor , so please ,be all careful with it, might be a good idea to have a thread related on what solvents should be avoided on sensible lenses, as the damage is irremediable.


Well if you already knew the answer...


I've seen people using it a lot and wasn't sure if that would even be possible , it might not affect any lens but still, worth to consider it .


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lighter fluid is a hydrocarbon solvent containing a wide range of compounds, but none will dissolve inorganic coatings as typically used on lenses. If the coatings were organic then chemicals such as isopropanol would also strip them (isopropanol is unusual in being totally miscible with all types of hydrocarbons as well as water).

Acetone was mentioned as being OK, well it is for glass (excellent even) but will often dissolve plastics as well as paints... I only use it on elements that have been completely removed from the lens body.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
Lighter fluid is a hydrocarbon solvent containing a wide range of compounds, but none will dissolve inorganic coatings as typically used on lenses. If the coatings were organic then chemicals such as isopropanol would also strip them (isopropanol is unusual in being totally miscible with all types of hydrocarbons as well as water).

Acetone was mentioned as being OK, well it is for glass (excellent even) but will often dissolve plastics as well as paints... I only use it on elements that have been completely removed from the lens body.


Yes, acetone will dissolve a lot of plastics, don't use it on glass if the lens retainer/beauty ring is plastic, or use it very carefully and make sure it doesn't touch the plastic.

Zippo / lighter fluid also dissolves some (not all) screen print lettering on lenses, so again, be careful with that.

You are right that isopropanol is unusual re. its miscibility; unless I am mistaken I understand that this is why it is nigh impossible to get it 100% pure, it will very quickly lose its purity as soon as you open the bottle and let the outside air in.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Repeat! Use this before trying any solvents. Remove lens element(s), suds a few drops in hand then use bare hands to clean glass. (You know old time lens grinders relied on touch for accuracy!)

visualopsins wrote:
Had great success with fungus and haze removal using Dr. Bronner's Pure Castile Liquid Soap Baby Mild Unscented.


https://www.vitacost.com/


For general final cleaning pure Ethanol made from grain is (relatively) non-toxic, purer than isopropyl. Such as



The indoor fireplace fuel is so pure there is no soot!

Note the lens cleaner Eclipse is pure Methanol (the liver destroyer). No residue, however.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
For general final cleaning pure Ethanol made from grain is (relatively) non-toxic, purer than isopropyl.


Ethanol is much more risky to use on a lot of plastics, compared to isopropanol.

If you can isolate the glass element that wouldn't be an issue.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
Lighter fluid is a hydrocarbon solvent containing a wide range of compounds, but none will dissolve inorganic coatings as typically used on lenses. If the coatings were organic then chemicals such as isopropanol would also strip them (isopropanol is unusual in being totally miscible with all types of hydrocarbons as well as water).

Acetone was mentioned as being OK, well it is for glass (excellent even) but will often dissolve plastics as well as paints... I only use it on elements that have been completely removed from the lens body.


Inorganic VS Organic coatings, how to ID lenses with their own type ,so one could avoid damaging coatings ?
I've read about cerium oxide removing coatings (don't know if all or only some of them?) ,But regarding Zippo lighter fluid ....is my first time ,that's why I've raised the issue , just in case


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:


For general final cleaning pure Ethanol made from grain is (relatively) non-toxic, purer than isopropyl. Such as

The indoor fireplace fuel is so pure there is no soot!

Note the lens cleaner Eclipse is pure Methanol (the liver destroyer). No residue, however.


Ethanol is not purer than isopropanol unless you buy spectroscopic grade & pay a vast amount in customs duty! The fireplace fuel you illustrated will almost certainly be methylated spirits (which will burn without soot provided a reasonable amount of air is available).

Ethanol forms a large number of azeotropes (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope) so that you can't distill ethanol/water mixes & get pure ethanol.
Methanol is often used to get a higher alcohol content (methanol/ethanol and water/methanol/ethanol mixtures also give rise to azeotropes but these have higher ethanol concentrations) which is what methylated spirits are. To get above the methanol ethanol azeotropes concentration benzene is typically used (producing yet more azeotropes)... Methylated spirits will usually have a purple dye added for sale to the public & is deliberately contaminated with bitrex to (try to) stop people drinking it.

IIRC last time I brought pure (>99.95%) ethanol was several years ago when it cost over £200 for a litre, while HPLC isopropanol was available at £22 for a 2.5 litre winchester a few months back. HPLC grade isopropanol is over 99% pure, has no residue & the trace impurities present will do no harm.
Both will pick up moisture from the atmosphere but there are loads of ways to remove these traces (and they won't effect the solvents cleaning capabilities anyway)

Last edited by DConvert on Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:33 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
DConvert wrote:
Lighter fluid is a hydrocarbon solvent containing a wide range of compounds, but none will dissolve inorganic coatings as typically used on lenses. If the coatings were organic then chemicals such as isopropanol would also strip them (isopropanol is unusual in being totally miscible with all types of hydrocarbons as well as water).

Acetone was mentioned as being OK, well it is for glass (excellent even) but will often dissolve plastics as well as paints... I only use it on elements that have been completely removed from the lens body.


Inorganic VS Organic coatings, how to ID lenses with their own type ,so one could avoid damaging coatings ?
I've read about cerium oxide removing coatings (don't know if all or only some of them?) ,But regarding Zippo lighter fluid ....is my first time ,that's why I've raised the issue , just in case


As far as I know all lens coatings are inorganic, but I suppose this may not be the case for plastic elements (plastics being organic compounds)


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
DConvert wrote:
visualopsins wrote:


For general final cleaning pure Ethanol made from grain is (relatively) non-toxic, purer than isopropyl. Such as

The indoor fireplace fuel is so pure there is no soot!

Note the lens cleaner Eclipse is pure Methanol (the liver destroyer). No residue, however.


Ethanol is not purer than isopropanol unless you buy spectroscopic grade & pay a vast amount in customs duty! The fireplace fuel you illustrated will almost certainly be methylated spirits (which will burn without soot provided a reasonable amount of air is available).

Ethanol forms a large number of azeotropes (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope) so that you can't distill ethanol/water mixes & get pure ethanol.
Methanol is often used to get a higher alcohol content (methanol/ethanol and water/methanol/ethanol mixtures also give rise to azeotropes but these have higher ethanol concentrations) which is what methylated spirits are. To get above the methanol ethanol azeotropes concentration benzene is typically used (producing yet more azeotropes)... Methylated spirits will usually have a purple dye added for sale to the public & is deliberately contaminated with bitrex to (try to) stop people drinking it.

IIRC last time I brought pure (>99.95%) ethanol was several years ago when it cost over £200 for a litre, while HPLC isopropanol was available at £22 for a 2.5 litre winchester a few months back. HPLC grade isopropanol is over 99% pure, has no residue & the trace impurities present will do no harm.
Both will pick up moisture from the atmosphere but there are loads of ways to remove these traces (and they won't effect the solvents cleaning capabilities anyway)


The fireplace Bio-ethanol fuel is made from "corn, potatoes, milk and rice" and sometimes beet root, while methylated spirits is made from a mixture of ethanol and methanol made from wood products. I can say from experience Bio-ethanol burns purer than the methylated spirits commonly used for stoves and ventless fireplaces. Methanol and denatured alcohols are toxic. (My alcohol stove is Dometic ORIGO 1500 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076DVQTDP/ ) Ethanol can be sold in California, but methylated spirits are banned in the state.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
DConvert wrote:
visualopsins wrote:


For general final cleaning pure Ethanol made from grain is (relatively) non-toxic, purer than isopropyl. Such as

The indoor fireplace fuel is so pure there is no soot!

Note the lens cleaner Eclipse is pure Methanol (the liver destroyer). No residue, however.


Ethanol is not purer than isopropanol unless you buy spectroscopic grade & pay a vast amount in customs duty! The fireplace fuel you illustrated will almost certainly be methylated spirits (which will burn without soot provided a reasonable amount of air is available).

Ethanol forms a large number of azeotropes (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope) so that you can't distill ethanol/water mixes & get pure ethanol.
Methanol is often used to get a higher alcohol content (methanol/ethanol and water/methanol/ethanol mixtures also give rise to azeotropes but these have higher ethanol concentrations) which is what methylated spirits are. To get above the methanol ethanol azeotropes concentration benzene is typically used (producing yet more azeotropes)... Methylated spirits will usually have a purple dye added for sale to the public & is deliberately contaminated with bitrex to (try to) stop people drinking it.

IIRC last time I brought pure (>99.95%) ethanol was several years ago when it cost over £200 for a litre, while HPLC isopropanol was available at £22 for a 2.5 litre winchester a few months back. HPLC grade isopropanol is over 99% pure, has no residue & the trace impurities present will do no harm.
Both will pick up moisture from the atmosphere but there are loads of ways to remove these traces (and they won't effect the solvents cleaning capabilities anyway)


The fireplace Bio-ethanol fuel is made from "corn, potatoes, milk and rice" and sometimes beet root, while methylated spirits is made from a mixture of ethanol and methanol made from wood products. I can say from experience Bio-ethanol burns purer than the methylated spirits commonly used for stoves and ventless fireplaces. Methanol and denatured alcohols are toxic. (My alcohol stove is Dometic ORIGO 1500 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076DVQTDP/ ) Ethanol can be sold in California, but methylated spirits are banned in the state.


Bio ethanol is made by fermenting plant material, which produces a solution of ethanol in water typically the yeast involved can't manage more than ~15% ethanol.
Distilling this to purify it is restricted to a maximum of 95.635% w/w ethanol (considerably higher than I remembered) by the azeotropes I mentioned.

IIRC ethanol/water mixes above about 35% will burn so this won't prevent it being used as fuel, but it's never going to be 'pure'. You'll always have ~5% (probably considerably more) water present.
FWIW The bitterant they add will probably be of more concern for lenses but fortunately it's only at very low levels no more than a few parts per million.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
At this level , maybe would be worth to try some small amount of palinka against stubborn fungus


PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
At this level , maybe would be worth to try some small amount of palinka against stubborn fungus


No, the soap works.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
kiddo wrote:
At this level , maybe would be worth to try some small amount of palinka against stubborn fungus


No, the soap works.


Like plain castille one?


PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kiddo wrote:
visualopsins wrote:
kiddo wrote:
At this level , maybe would be worth to try some small amount of palinka against stubborn fungus


No, the soap works.


Like plain castille one?


Yes. Pure castile soap made from vegetable oils such as olive and coconut. I'd not use dish soap; some brands contain grease cutting hydrocarbons...

Since palinka is ethanol...


PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When servicing lenses, I have found that after a complete disassembly the individual metal/plastic parts (i.e. after all the glass has been removed!!!) clean up very well with a liquid hand sanitiser/soap and a medium toothbrush. These often contain a (small amount of) isopropanol. Best use an unperfumed / sensitive skin version. This also works well to get the helicoid parts sparkling clean and free of all old helicoid grease.
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