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Sony working on a camera that will AF with any lens?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Sony working on a camera that will AF with any lens? Reply with quote
According to Sonyalpharumours Sony is working on an NEX camera that has sensor shift autofocus where the sensor will move backwards and forwards to achieve focus similar to that old contax camera that move the film plane.

I'm guessing you would have to manually focus the lens still to get it near to being in focus and then the camera could fine tune, if that's the case it could be revelation for legacy lenses, no more peaking or magnified views, just get it close to being focused and the camera would do the rest quickly and accurately!

It sounds to good to be true but Andrea gives some pretty big hints in the comments to this article http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-breakthrough-on-rumor-front-plenty-of-new-sony-e-mount-cameras-to-come-soon-and-more-e-and-a-mount-info/

He's definitely heard/seen something and is very excited about it and the vast majority of the rumours on his site end up being at least partially true.

I can't wait to find out more!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't appeal to me, focus peaking and 7/14x focus magnify is all I need, and I would never trust the camera to make the focus decision for me.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
for those of us who actually used a contax ax, this is very exciting because we know how well that decades old technology worked. the ax was an engineering marvel, easily one of the great all time cameras, and was spot on focus almost all the time. thanks for bringing this to our attention. i'm not a sony fan, but i hope this project moves forward.
tony


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds awesome! Finally my wife can take a picture of me using my own camera Laughing


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds definitely intereting!


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let's hope we able to afford it and will be fast enough for scenes what require AF really.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Sony working on a camera that will AF with any lens? Reply with quote
fatdeeman wrote:
He's definitely heard/seen something and is very excited about it and the vast majority of the rumours on his site end up being at least partially true.

Well, he's been very excited before and then nothing much happened. Wait and see. Sounds interesting though. Smile


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't mean to throw a wet blanket onto this party, but there is another interpretation of the term "sensor shift" that you should be aware of, and it's a technology that Sony already uses in its A-series cameras. They refer to in-body image stabilization as "sensor shift" technology. See:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/alpha_01.html
http://petapixel.com/2011/07/13/nikons-reasons-for-lens-stabilization-vs-sensor-shift-stabilization/
http://www.digitalrev.com/article/lens-vs-sensor-shift-image/MzU4Mg_A_A

But hey, it's possible they might be moving in a direction where it could be used for AF, but I don't see the incentive for it, do you? I mean, Contax built the AX because they refused to produce AF lenses (claiming AF tech wasn't accurate enough), and this fact was the reason for the incentive to build the AX. The old Contax AX was something of a milestone camera. I remember wondering when it came out just how long a camera like that could last with all that precision technology needed to make it work. Apparently pretty well. I see six of them for sale on eBay right now. So anyway, Contax proved that it could be done, but Sony doesn't have this same incentive, do they? So why would they do it? Maybe Zeiss is planning to build a set of lenses for the A mount that are MF only? I doubt that. I mean, their gargantuan 135mm f/1.8 in Sony mount is AF, so that makes it seem unlikely.

One of the Sony rumors I've read recently was that Sony has entered into a shared technology agreement with Olympus, and that their reasoning for doing so was to be able to use Oly's in-camera five-axis image stabilization technology in Sony cameras. I don't know anything about Oly's system other than what I've read, but apparently Sony thinks highly enough of it to be willing to link up with Oly to get it. See:

http://petapixel.com/2013/06/05/olympus-5-axis-image-stabilization-may-soon-arrive-on-sony-a-mount-cameras/
http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-olympus-will-now-share-the-5-axis-stabilization-system-with-sony/
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-nex-ff-priced-below-3000-has-olympus-5-axis-stabilization-2/

My advice? Think "image stabilization" when you hear the buzzwords "sensor shift."


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
One big reason why Sony would want to license IS technology from Olympus is the simple fact their own sensor shift system is crap. Maybe more recent Alpha models are better, but the old ones, SteadyShot is usually broken. The a100 and a200 were particularly bad, you will see a hell of a lot of them for sale on ebay with SteadyShot not working.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The manual for the Sonnar T FE 35mm F2.8 ZA has been leaked. It will be nice to have sensor shift on the new FF NEX camera. I hope Sony will make sensor shift available to all lenses like Olympus do.

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-first-full-frame-zeiss-35mm-f2-8-e-mount-lens-listed-on-sony-germany/


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I hope they don't, unless they'd managed to make it reliable.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yep Steady shift is pretty unreliable if you drop the camera, I have had Sonys, here is the list 2x A700 1x A200, 1x A55, and 1x A57 all working fine except one of my A700's that was dropped.
I think you will find the steady shift has failed due to dropping.
Also in Sonys defence any failure such as that will only cost £117 maximum as that is the most they charge for a repair
So a shutter failure would be £117


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Doesn't appeal to me, focus peaking and 7/14x focus magnify is all I need, and I would never trust the camera to make the focus decision for me.





Wink


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now that's just an attempt at trolling or to start an argument, shame on you. Evil or Very Mad


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nah it's just funny. Laughing
What you should have said is; I used to do that but would never make that mistake again. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No, it's not funny, you took a comment made a longtime ago and quoted it out of context in order to make me look bad.

Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with you.

Why do you think I said I wouldn't trust AF if not for prior bad experiences?


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whatever Rolling Eyes

Learn to laugh at yourself dude, makes life a lot easier. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Heh, not me. I'm still waiting for the first true auto exposure camera: one where I don't even have to push a button. It frames, focuses, sets exposure, and trips the shutter based on a database of thousands of successful photographs. By comparing what is in the frame, the camera matches to a similar family of photographs, shifts the sensor to frame and focus, and voila, a perfect photograph.

I'd also like to buy portfolios of famous photographers' works. So for example, when going out West for some landscape work, I could license all of Ansel Adams' photos, load them into my camera, and presto, all my photographs would come out looking like Ansel's. Or, I might go out shooting the streets, in which case I have a choice, say I pick Robert Frank. If I'm in the mood for the bizarre, I can choose the Diane Arbus mode...

After all, for most photographers, the existence of personality and individuality can only have a negative impact on the quality of the photograph. Only acknowledged masters have solved this problem by integrating their individuality to a high technical level. I think our cameras should do the same.

Therefore I applaud Sony's market leading direction here... they will be doing their utmost to upset the Canon/Nikon apple cart.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-there-is-a-sony-camera-to-come-also-for-nikon-and-canon-lens-owners/


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Of current digital cameras only Pentax Q, Nikon 1 and Fuji XF have shorter register distance than E mount for which the biggest variety of cheap adapters are available which imo makes it the most versatile mount today. Therefore I am very happy to see that Sony is developing the E mount, with the ILC3000 starts to offer SLR shaped E mount cameras, and certainly I am very curious how well that sensor shift AF will work, if converting our manual lenses to AF will be tempting for us MF freaks Wink


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fatdeeman wrote:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-there-is-a-sony-camera-to-come-also-for-nikon-and-canon-lens-owners/


Very interesting. Sort of reminiscent of what Canon did in the late 60s/Early 70s -- they built adapters for Nikon, Pentax K and M42, so these lenses could be used on Canon bodies. It appears that Sony is effectively doing the same thing. This new E-mount camera, to be compatible with Nikon and Canon (and I think we can assume Sony A-mount as well) will have to come with adapters for each mount, and it seems to me that they'll have to be adapters that permit AF. That in itself will be a feat -- getting competitors' lenses to work on one of their own cameras.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
...will have to come with adapters for each mount, and it seems to me that they'll have to be adapters that permit AF...


I thought that any existing dumb adapter should do (?)


PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kuuan wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
...will have to come with adapters for each mount, and it seems to me that they'll have to be adapters that permit AF...


I thought that any existing dumb adapter should do (?)


Not likely. For one thing, Canon's EF lenses and Nikon's latest AF lenses don't have aperture rings anymore. (I don't know about Sony) So the aperture value has to be set in the camera, and then it transmits this value to the lens. And it just seems to me that, if they're gonna have to go to all that trouble, they may as well include the circuitry that would allow the lenses to AF on the Sony body.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
kuuan wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
...will have to come with adapters for each mount, and it seems to me that they'll have to be adapters that permit AF...


I thought that any existing dumb adapter should do (?)


Not likely. For one thing, Canon's EF lenses and Nikon's latest AF lenses don't have aperture rings anymore. (I don't know about Sony) So the aperture value has to be set in the camera, and then it transmits this value to the lens. And it just seems to me that, if they're gonna have to go to all that trouble, they may as well include the circuitry that would allow the lenses to AF on the Sony body.


Minolta and Sony AF lens (MA mount) also do not have the aperture ring. There is actually an accessories Sony came out, LA-EA2, which allows Sony AF lens (MA mount) to be mounted on NEX (E mount) while keeping AF and also setting the aperture through the camera body.

Here some info and review of the KA-EA@:
http://store.sony.com/p/Digital-Camera-Adaptor-Translucent-Mirror-Technology-Mirrorless-Mount-A-Series-Lens/en/p/LAEA2
http://photojottings.com/reviews/sony-la-ea2-adapter-review/

Last edited by my_photography on Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Canon's EF lenses and Nikon's latest AF lenses don't have aperture rings anymore. (I don't know about Sony) So the aperture value has to be set in the camera, and then it transmits this value to the lens. And it just seems to me that, if they're gonna have to go to all that trouble, they may as well include the circuitry that would allow the lenses to AF on the Sony body.


I got to thinking about what I wrote above and I realize now that kuuan may be at least partially correct. Perhaps the adapters for Canon and Nikon will have aperture control only and the reason for the sensor movement is because they didn't want to bother with getting the AF right for those two lens designs. Probable?
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