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Some advice on DSLR choice
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Some advice on DSLR choice Reply with quote
Hello all

I am very fond of film cameras so far. Plus the processing is just very easy, so i keep it . Some other things but i won't mention all.

Nonetheless, i am aware of all the new technology, digital one, and i think that i "shall" give it a t try, at least. maybe i'll be disseapointed and i'll stick with film , but hey no idea here. To be honest i find the dslr quite complex with all the buttons and stuff :s . And the crop sensors ... meh !

So okay of all the cameras i watched after so far, the K20 looks the best choice. Why ? Simple, well designed, i don't care for live view of continous shooting... i plan to use only mf lenses on it with the m42 adapter.

Is it a good choice ? And is it easy to use ( stupid question ) ?
thanx for the infos


PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it a good camera ?

I have two Canons - 300D and XTi
I have one Fujifilm - S2 (Nikon F mount)
I have one Pentax - istD

If I were to take one over the others I would choose the Canon XTi since any of the lenses that work with the other two will work on the Canon with an adapter.

Plusses of the other two:
The Fuji seems to have an edge on color rendition. Personal opinion.
The Pentax is smallest and easy to carry on the street.

I would hesitate to 'tell' someone to choose one brand over the other. I like to use them all and rotate their use as the mood strikes- same as you change lenses.

As for the 'crop factor', it doesn't bother me at all. In fact I like my 200mm Canon 2.8 L glass turning into a 320mm 2.8 L for free. With the new super wide angles being offered, a non fisheye 10mm (16mm with crop factor) lens is easily purchased.

Make sure by checking here before purchasing that you are not buying a body that will not accept the M42 lenses to focus at Infinity.

All of mine are second hand, carefully culled off eBay except for the XTi which I purchased new from Amazon.

For the second question, DSLR's are as hard to use as you choose to make them. You are already familiar with film SLR's, a lot of the DSLR bells and whistles are just add ons to mimic film. You can't load a special film into a DSLR, so you have all those buttons and dials to help you out. They all have an automatic mode; same as most film SLR's; where you just point and shoot. Learning the extras just takes a bit of time and reading.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
An online friend who shoots almost entirely with Takumars bought a K20 earlier this year, and his reaction was astonishment. So much easier to use, meters better, better viewfinder, and live view is also helpful with focus, is his verdict. He upgraded from a K100D. I'd have followed suit except for a lack of funds... and I prefer smaller cameras, though the K20 is not bad.

You'd probably want to install a real focusing viewfinder, ie. with a split or micro prism. Lots available.

Now that the latest greatest Pentax is out, a lot of Pentaxians are looking to unload their K20's - so some good deals should be out there for a year old body. Maybe even with a proper screen installed.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm a Pentaxian, and I love the K-7 I just got. However, if you do not plan on buying/using any of the great prime/star lenses in the current Pentax lineup, and will only use MF lenses, then the K20D is not necessarily the one I would recommend. The way I see it, it will be a tradeoff between it and an EOS in the same range:


K20D
Pro: Built-in OIS. You will love this. If you plan on going with a Canon, don't even touch a K20D; you will miss the OIS like mad when shooting the Canon (at least I do, whenever I pick up my 5D). Awesome color from the sensor.
Con: Cruddy Live View. Better to have it than not, but that's about it. If you plan on going with a Pentax, don't look at how great the EOS Live View is. Not very good high ISO performance. ISO800 is the practical upper limit. But you can shoot at slooooow shutter speeds and still get good results, because of IS.


EOS
Pro: Short register, means it can adapt a whole bunch of old MF lenses, not just M42; you got your QBM, your OM, your C/Y, your Exakta, etc. Live View is fantastic, great for fast manual primes and/or macro photography on a tripod. Good high ISO performance. ISO1600 is totally usable.
Con: No image stabilization for any old/cheap lenses. Bust compensate for that with higher ISO, which negates the advantage it has.



However, the K-7 pretty much takes care of most, if not all of the cons of K20D. If the question were between a K-7 and any other APS-C camera, so long as all you need is to use M42 glass, I would suggest the K-7 over everything else on the market right now.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok thanx for the info everyone. i'll plan to change focusing screen, i've seen some on the site in other topic ( focusingscreen.com ) . My fav is all matte field, my X700 as well as the Om2 have this one, i find it really better instead of a split screen.

The buy will be done not right now though, so i'll wait until the prices go down a bit, for maybe a K7.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hexi if you can't wait for the price of the K-7 to go down but want to have a go with M42 lenses for cheap, get a used Pentax *istD or *istDs

No IS, but otherwise IMO the best choice for M42 lenses


PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanx for your info kuuan, but i can wait for a K7, i plan to buy it next year i think. Until now its all film Cool


PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I used to have Canon 350D for M42 lenses. After it broke down I switched to Pentax K20D. The difference is like night and day. Not only focusing is much easier because of the superior viewfinder, the ergonomics is much better and lastly, the image stabilizer is something I did not value before I had one Wink With the Canon I had to use ISO1600 at regular basis when shooting with 500/8 mirror lens - now it is often even ISO100. Not only that, but the stabilizer (and auto-ISO) gives lots of trust into shooting.

If you can not afford K7, and don't shoot movies, you might want to buy K20D as it is much cheaper and the IQ is very similar.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like your sig anu Very Happy

The difference between K20 and K7 is like 200€, but as i want something simple, and think that video is a total gadgetery on a camera of this standard. But i have a question though : does the IS works with m42's ? and which mode does it work with ? manual, aperture ?

thanx anyway


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I ended up going with Pentax when I upgraded my digital cam. I have a Canon 10s along with both an EF 50mm macro and one in FD which I think is actually better. I also have a canon FD bellows and bellows lens for it. In addition to that, I have the genuine FD-EOS for macro that allows the use of the bellows on the 10s. Since my Canon macro flash would have limited use on newer digital bodies, I went with something that would support Pentax legacy glass.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hexi wrote:
The difference between K20 and K7 is like 200€, but as i want something simple, and think that video is a total gadgetery on a camera of this standard. But i have a question though : does the IS works with m42's ? and which mode does it work with ? manual, aperture ?


This is an old question, but in case you are still wondering: yes, Pentax in-body image stabilisation works for M42 lenses. Manual and aperture priority modes are available. Focus confirmation with the AF-system, too, I believe. This makes Pentax the most MF-friendly system out of the box, as others need special electric adapters for this (e.g. Sony, which also has in-body stabilisation but no in-camera focal length selection to make it fully effective, unlike Pentax).


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I have enough money I choice Canon 5D II other ways micro 4/3 Panasonic or Olympus. Canon because unbeliavable image quality and fullframe and pretty good lens compatibility. Micro 4/3 due superb lens compatibility.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Canon and Olympus\Panasonic 4/3 have the widest lens compatibility. But I would pick Canon due to the crop factor. THe 4/3 cameras make it even harder to find wide angle.

For a basic setup, it is hard to beat the Canon XS/1000D. All adapted lenses work great in AV or M mode and it has liveview on the 2.5" to make focusing easier. You can zoom in to 5-10x mag to check focus for landscapes or other fine details.

Pentax is probably the best if you only have K mount or m42 lenses, but Canon can use pretty much everything but Minolta MD, Canon FD\FL and rangefinder lenses.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not going to tell you that Pentax is better than any other camera, but let me say why I went for the K10D in no order:

-Great colors
-In-body Shake Reduction. 1/20s shutter speed at 200mm+...yeah Shocked
-Changeable focus screens
-Comfortable body
-Good price
-Genuine, OEM Pentax M42 adapter...made in Japan.
-Bright viewfinder
-Aperture activation on K mount lenses
-More accurate metering than my old Canon 300D (IMO)

The cons:
-High ISO gets noisy, but K20 is better here
-Loud shutter
-Fiddly metering at small apertures

Overall, I really like the K10 and would not hesitate to get the K20 Cool


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The K20 is my choice since i can't afford a full frame camera. I think this is already a good choice of what i saw in some videos and for the price its correct. I just plan to change focus screen, to an all mat, cause this is my fav and focusing is easier. As for iso i hardly go over 800 iso, so i don't care much. Loud shutter either, i have Prakticas Wink

the main question would be about the 1.5x factor with the lenses on small sensors. How does it work in practice ? do you shoot normally ( silly question i know )

and thanx for the last infos folkz


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hexi wrote:
The K20 is my choice since i can't afford a full frame camera. I think this is already a good choice of what i saw in some videos and for the price its correct. I just plan to change focus screen, to an all mat, cause this is my fav and focusing is easier. As for iso i hardly go over 800 iso, so i don't care much. Loud shutter either, i have Prakticas Wink

the main question would be about the 1.5x factor with the lenses on small sensors. How does it work in practice ? do you shoot normally ( silly question i know )

and thanx for the last infos folkz


I use slides for wide shoots and for everything else digital.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't completely agree with the philosophy that Oly 4/3 and Canon are more compatible with other lenses than Pentax.

Here are 10 points:

1st, there was a substantial Asahi Optical lens catalog going back to the 1950s. 2nd there are a plethora of other lenses available in m42 mount including Zeiss. 3rd there is the adapt-a-matic and similar era multi mount systems that have m42 available. 4th there is the adaptall and adaptall-2 system that has several mounts (m42, PK, PKA). 5th: Many 3rd party lens makers make pka mount lenses including Zeiss and Voightlander. 6th: there are other ways to adapt certain glass to work on k-mount. 8: All of that still allows for IS 99% of the time. 9: to beat Pentax costs a fair amount of mone. Finally, I have seen a lot of nice Pentax glass butchered up to work half-arsed on Canon bodies. Crying or Very sad

Having said all that, there is a way to use the Canon FD bellows system on EF bodies. It is done via the genuine FD-EOS macro adapter.

However, I don't like the cheap feel of the Canon and Sony stuff (R.I.P. Minolta). Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can you mount Contax,Exakta, Rollei, Nikon,Leica, Praktica B on Pentax with a simple adapter on Pentax body with infinity support? No. So Pentax is lot less compatible than Canon or Olympus. On Canon and Olympus you can mount all lenses what you can mount on Pentax + many others.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hexi wrote:
the main question would be about the 1.5x factor with the lenses on small sensors. How does it work in practice ? do you shoot normally ( silly question i know )


It's not a silly question, actually the crop factor is a very common cause of confusion for DSLR users, since many people propagate the myth that the size of the sensor somehow changes the focal length.

To answer your question: yes, you shoot normally, because crop factor does not change focal length. The smaller sensor is equivalent to shooting film and physically cutting off the edges of the frame to make it smaller, i.e. the lens still made the complete image just as usual (since it doesn't know what camera it's on), but a smaller portion of it was recorded. That's why the field of view is smaller and the crop factor is used to compare fields of view between to formats, since the assumption is that people are familiar with the focal lengths for 135 film (not necessarily true anymore with younger people). But everything else (depth of field, etc) is unchanged.

Of course, the unfortunate side-effect of this is that it's hard to find an old manual focus ultra-wide that would still be wide after the “forced cropping”…


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Can you mount Contax,Exakta, Rollei, Nikon,Leica, Praktica B on Pentax with a simple adapter on Pentax body with infinity support? No. So Pentax is lot less compatible than Canon or Olympus. On Canon and Olympus you can mount all lenses what you can mount on Pentax + many others.


On the other hand Olympus four thirds system forces a 2× crop on you, which completely changes the situations in which one would use a given lens, and Canon has problems with mirror clearance on some of the full frame models (solvable by shaving the mirror, yes, but not really out of the box compatibility; the same way it's possible to convert lenses to Pentax).

Meanwhile Pentax does give the best support out of the box for using M42 lenses, which are for many the most important manual focus lenses (and certainly the most diverse). This includes image stabilisation which would be impossible to get on Canon for these lenses…

So, no-one is arguing that Pentax supports as many mounts with a simple adapter, but for many people even just M42 mount is plenty, and the features of Pentax with that mount are superb. (Other than for the lack of a full frame DSLR currently.)


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arkku wrote:
Attila wrote:
Can you mount Contax,Exakta, Rollei, Nikon,Leica, Praktica B on Pentax with a simple adapter on Pentax body with infinity support? No. So Pentax is lot less compatible than Canon or Olympus. On Canon and Olympus you can mount all lenses what you can mount on Pentax + many others.


On the other hand Olympus four thirds system forces a 2× crop on you, which completely changes the situations in which one would use a given lens, and Canon has problems with mirror clearance on some of the full frame models (solvable by shaving the mirror, yes, but not really out of the box compatibility; the same way it's possible to convert lenses to Pentax).

Meanwhile Pentax does give the best support out of the box for using M42 lenses, which are for many the most important manual focus lenses (and certainly the most diverse). This includes image stabilisation which would be impossible to get on Canon for these lenses…

So, no-one is arguing that Pentax supports as many mounts with a simple adapter, but for many people even just M42 mount is plenty, and the features of Pentax with that mount are superb. (Other than for the lack of a full frame DSLR currently.)


I am over on it with Nikkor , same case than Pentax can't use many lenses. Hard to see if I get a good lens and I can't use on my camera. M42 lenses are lower level lenses with a few exception, Contax, Leica, Olympus OM all are lot more better and available for Canon and Olympus... So my conclusion I never take incompatible body if I can take compatible ones. Pentax, Sony , Nikon all are great cameras , but not perfectly fit for MF lenses lover who like to try and enjoy many lenses.

I can't imagine a DSLR to me without Contax, Olympus OM and Leica lenses no way.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hexi wrote:
The K20 is my choice since i can't afford a full frame camera. I think this is already a good choice of what i saw in some videos and for the price its correct. I just plan to change focus screen, to an all mat, cause this is my fav and focusing is easier. As for iso i hardly go over 800 iso, so i don't care much. Loud shutter either, i have Prakticas Wink

the main question would be about the 1.5x factor with the lenses on small sensors. How does it work in practice ? do you shoot normally ( silly question i know )

and thanx for the last infos folkz


nice choice Smile

I am not sure if I understand your question about the crop factor well. I guess there must be many dSLR users with modern lenses / kit lenses who are not even aware of it. One does not notice it other than that e.g a 50mm lens will give you the same angle of view as a 75mm lens would give you on FF / 35mm film.

Coming from SLR the viewfinder will appear small, in addition to the mat focus screen you may consider a magnifying eye piece.

enjoy,
Andreas


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Can you mount Contax,Exakta, Rollei, Nikon,Leica, Praktica B on Pentax with a simple adapter on Pentax body with infinity support? No. So Pentax is lot less compatible than Canon or Olympus. On Canon and Olympus you can mount all lenses what you can mount on Pentax + many others.


I have seen some of those so-called canon adapters that end up being paper weights for some of the more vintage mounts. Plus, no IS. As far as Leica goes it depends on which ones. M39 to m42. Laughing Then there is Leitax for Leice-R lenses to k-mount, m42 and Zeiss/Contax MM to k-mount. http://www.leitax.com/

Plus I know of several custom conversions on Oly Zuiko to K etc. However, the point I was making is that the choice of lenses for Pentax aren't limited. However, I realize that Pentax isn't for everyone. But, neither is Canon. Dare to be different. Very Happy

Edit:Leitz Elmarit-R 1:2.8/180 on *istD (not mine)

http://www.pbase.com/piotreks/elmarit180


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raymond, it's "Be Interesting"...that's the mantra now Laughing

As for the whole compatibility thing...I have one lens I can't use with a film body [I don't own any with aperture control] and I feel it's advantageous to carry one set of lenses that I can use across my main 2 cameras, the K10 and MX (still need to take the ME-S out Rolling Eyes )

Pentax bodies can take all manner of lenses with camera mount mods/reversible lens mods.

Short list:
Contax (mod K mount or lens mount; infinity adjustment)
Nikon AI (pressure fit inside camera mount)
OM (same as Contax but with aperture mod inside lens)
Leica M39 (with M42 adapter. Others with Leitax mount)
Rollei QBM (switch to K mount; aperture mod) see here for (bad) translation http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigeye.url.tw%2Fbig5%2Fd_cz35_14_2.htm&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&history_state0=

Those are off the top of my head...

In short, if I would have felt limited by lens choices, I never would have gone with Pentax. I realized I had the choice of M42 and K mount ONLY...natively, that is...and I'm fine with it.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
Hard to see if I get a good lens and I can't use on my camera. M42 lenses are lower level lenses with a few exception, Contax, Leica, Olympus OM all are lot more better and available for Canon and Olympus... So my conclusion I never take incompatible body if I can take compatible ones. Pentax, Sony , Nikon all are great cameras , but not perfectly fit for MF lenses lover who like to try and enjoy many lenses.


Well, that really depends on the individual person. Personally I haven't encountered many MF lenses of interest outside M42 mount, since the Leica, Contax, etc tend to be so expensive that it kind of defeats the purpose for me. The ones that have been interesting, I've converted for use on my Sony DSLR; Rokkor 58m f/1.2, C/Y Sonnar 135mm f/2.8, Canon FL 55mm f/1.2, etc., and while not everyone is willing to convert the lenses themselves, for most of these individual lenses there exists a replacement mount one can buy specifically for that lens to use it on Sony or Pentax. (Also for Leica-R lenses and most other C/Y lenses, so actually it just leaves Olympus which doesn't seem to be that desirable.)

I also disagree about characterising M42 as “lower lenses”; in fact I disagree about grouping all M42 lenses together because of the vast diversity of lenses in that mount. And considering the number of M42 lenses available, the “few [good] exceptions” outnumber good lenses in most other mounts.

So, for a regular person who's interested in using manual focus lenses for practical purposes I'd say Pentax is an excellent DSLR system since even M42 alone offers a good lens for pretty much every need. For someone interested in trying and collecting as many different manual focus lenses as possible, well, Olympus 4/3 is probably the best option but extremely limited for many practical uses due to the crop factor. For full frame, Sony is probably the best bet currently, due to no mirror clearance issues and built-in stabilisation. (Personally I'd argue that shaving the mirror on a Canon full frame is more daunting than modifying a couple of lenses if they cannot otherwise be adapted to Sony or Pentax.)


(Disclaimer: I'm strongly biased in favour of any system other than Canon or Nikon, because as a technology freak I feel the two “big ones” are just not as innovative as their competition…)


Edit: Of course, one could buy one full frame, e.g. Sony A850, and a µ4/3 body for a small carry-along camera and for trying out the otherwise unattainable lenses.
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