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Soligor (Tokina) 250/4.5 T4 - the rarest T4 ?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:10 am    Post subject: Soligor (Tokina) 250/4.5 T4 - the rarest T4 ? Reply with quote

I've been looking for this lens for nine months, just to complete a collection, and a couple of weeks ago, Bill (member casualcollector) spotted one, and shortly after I spotted another. When it rains it pours I suppose. Naturally I picked up both, to be sure of getting one. If anyone wants my spare to complete a T4/Tokina collection, let me know ! Mine is complete at last.



This is of course one of that early Tokina automatic lens series of 1967-@1976, which were sold under many brands, but in the interchangeable T4 mount only by Soligor and Vivitar. The 250/4.5 was probably the rarest of the series.

Bill has written a wonderful, classic article on the series here -

http://www.vermontel.net/~wsalati/CasualCollector/t4_for_two.htm

Its certainly one of the last of the 250mm prime lenses, once a standard length for 35mm cameras. They went out of favor in the 1970's, and this model may have been the last in production.

It is a very conventional T4-Soligor/Tokina lens, well made and heavy, with the characteristic dual aperture scale. It has an excellent built-in hood, like several others in the series. It is old-fashioned in another way though, as it is very long for its focal length - its longer than the 300mm in the series in fact -



L-R - 300/5.5 Sears, 250/4.5 Soligor, 200/3.5 Sears, 200/3.5 Soligor

Theres no advanced optical formulas here !

Performance is, in a word, excellent. This is a sharp lens wide-open, and very good in every respect to the limit of my ability to test it, plenty of contrast and no flare or fringing I could see. Focusing is precise and crisp, snapping into focus without error or fuss. I did "the bird" in two shots, where I often take 12 or more. The only problem is another old-fashioned characteristic, a long minimum focus of 15ft/5m. Overall, its one of the better Tokinas in that line.















The bird -



crop -



PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote




Hi Luis, very nice pictures and interesting collection!

I'm another Soligo-holic...
The left one might be the supposably earlier version of the Soligor 250/4.5, with T2 mount and preset aperture. (No. 9711762)
The lens at the right is Soligor 200/3.5, M42 mount.


Another nice one stayed in the shelf when this picture was taken, the 135/2.8, T4->M42 mount. I'm curious about the 105mm, but it seems to be quite scarce here in Europe.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet... Results like this just go to show that Prime lens designs haven't changed much in the last 40 years, when even a cheap 3rd party zoom can create such amazing results.

I'd be interested in the spare, btw, though I could only pay cost of shipping...


PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing samples from a great lens!!


PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Martin,

I like the old Soligor presets a lot. The quality is usually very good. The Soligor brand gives a good selection of the major Japanese manufacturers of the 1960's, as there are several series of these.

I have identified five different types of Soligor 250/4.5 preset - made by Tamron (I have one), Komine (I have one), Tokina and two others.

The 105mm T4 is not common. I have a Vivitar that is very nice, so I can recommend it if you find one.

Your 200mm is yet another version that was not made for T4. Mamiya seems to have sold all three Tokina 200mm's. Whats the filter size on yours ?

Hi Mjkerpan,

I'll mail you privately.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Luis,

luisalegria wrote:

I have identified five different types of Soligor 250/4.5 preset - made by Tamron (I have one), Komine (I have one), Tokina and two others.

Can you identify mine? The "Soligor" characters at the filter ring look like the ones, Soligor used at the Miranda lenses. First I supposed the lens to use a "Wundertüte" design, but the frontlens is concave while my "Wundertüte" lenses seems to have a convex shaped one.
luisalegria wrote:

Your 200mm is yet another version that was not made for T4. Mamiya seems to have sold all three Tokina 200mm's. Whats the filter size on yours ?

It is 62mm.


PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was lucky enough to recently stumble upon this lens for very little.
I haven't used it as yet but will give it a go when it stops raining here - yes, it's raining here at long last YAY!
No caps of course but not a mark on it and the glass is a clean as a whistle.






PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do need to retry mine.
I now have a 16mp sensor vs the 6mp I was using for these.
Its probably not going to look as good in pixel peeping.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have been into town and back and it is still sprinkling but overcast outside.
Minimum focus distance is around 13 feet - so not too flash in that department.
Here are some quick images from my verandah on K-10D (10Mp)
Looks promising
OH





100% crop of number 3 above:



and one more with colour:


Last edited by Oldhand on Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty decent.

Weirdly enough it was raining hard in San Francisco as well, and us with our drought.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

luisalegria wrote:
Pretty decent.

Weirdly enough it was raining hard in San Francisco as well, and us with our drought.


............It was raining hard in 'Frisco
I needed one more fare to make my night
A lady up ahead waved to flag me down
She got in at the light
.............

Thank you Harry C
OH


PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Soligor (Tokina) 250/4.5 T4 - the rarest T4 ? Reply with quote

luisalegria wrote:
I've been looking for this lens for nine months, just to complete a collection, and a couple of weeks ago, Bill (member casualcollector) spotted one, and shortly after I spotted another. When it rains it pours I suppose. Naturally I picked up both, to be sure of getting one. If anyone wants my spare to complete a T4/Tokina collection, let me know ! Mine is complete at last.


Luis,

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere on the site, what exactly comprises the T4/Tokina collection?

Best,

paul


PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the lenses made with the T4 mount.
These range from 21mm to 400mm primes and three zooms.


PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Louis! Quite the collection - Congratulations on a significant achievement. I just found a working link to Bill's (casual collector) site - going to check that out now!

All the best,


Paul


PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep tripping over these T4 lenses when I'm on the prowl for Noritar (Vivitar) 250 lenses.

Here is one, for example:

Click here to see on Ebay

I think that lens is overpriced and has less character than luisalegria's Soligar 250 T4 version, which I like. The seller has been trying to get rid of that thing for quite a long while, with no takers so far. Just sayin'. Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Soligor (Tokina) 250/4.5 T4 - the rarest T4 ? Reply with quote

pdccameras wrote:


Luis,

Sorry if I have missed this elsewhere on the site, what exactly comprises the T4/Tokina collection?

Best,

paul


The family portrait, posted in another thread and here again for the noobs. The known Tokina T4 lenses in Soligor and Vivitar dress.




...and the original essay from 2003 has disappeared from the web
https://sites.google.com/site/casualcollectorproject/Home/lenses/t4-for-two


Last edited by casualcollector on Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for re-posting - wonderful portrait!


PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2024 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got an "AUTO SOLIGOR 1:4.5 250mm" - I have no idea whether it's a Tokina-made lens or something else. Counting the reflections before and after the aperture, I'm pretty sure it's a [4/2] construction - a cemented doublet in front, acting as the master lens, and an equally cemented doublet at the rear, acting as field flattener. Interestingly, for focusing only the front doublet is moved; the rear doublet doesn't move. The MFD is 3.0m / 10ft which is much better than the Tamron version (4.5m).



Again, the performance seems to be surprisingly good for such an old and simple design.
Here's a 100% crop from the center, taken wide open (f4.5) with the 24MP FF Sony A7II:


The same subject, but this thime a 100% crop from the extreme corner (f4.5 / wide open):


And finally a 100% crop from the extreme corners (24 MP FF, again) at f11:


Not bad at all, and certainly better than expected!

S


PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2024 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting find! The "aperture in a window" makes me think Tamron.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very interesting - rare I think, I've not seen this variant before. It's not the tamron - very different! Or tokina.

Pic of the tamron as a soligor T-xxxx serial side by side with the rare(ish) vivitar version of tokina made T4 mount 250-f4.5



PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Vivitar 250 version in T4. Never thought of it as rare or special . . but who knows. Pretty sure it's not a window lens.

That Tamron/Soligar 250 is a beautiful lens. I surely do not own a copy of that one!


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
I just got an "AUTO SOLIGOR 1:4.5 250mm" - I have no idea whether it's a Tokina-made lens or something else. Counting the reflections before and after the aperture, I'm pretty sure it's a [4/2] construction - a cemented doublet in front, acting as the master lens, and an equally cemented doublet at the rear, acting as field flattener. Interestingly, for focusing only the front doublet is moved; the rear doublet doesn't move. The MFD is 3.0m / 10ft which is much better than the Tamron version (4.5m).


S


Not sure if that's a Tamron style window or not- I have to dig for the old ones to check.
Looks like some one tried to glue a tab foot onto the ring for A/I contact.
Those late 60's 3rd party nikon mount lenses usually have a quite small diameter aperture ring- probably for clearances when a different mount is used on the lens. There is not enough metal there to mill the usual A/I tab.

ETA: Just checked the popular Tamron site, and couldn't find a 250mm of any kind listed there, in any Tamron lens series.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ones's listed in the t-mount lenses DS
Just out of interest, has anyone ever seen the distinctive t-mount 200mm f2.8 #360 ? I certainly haven't.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2024 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcusBMG wrote:
Ones's listed in the t-mount lenses DS


Quite easily missed on that lay-out. Tx for the heads up.
That 250 is pictured much earlier in the thread above.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2024 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I'm watching a Soligor 250 /4,5 which looks like others in this thread but is still a bit different.

https://www.bobshop.co.za/soligor-telephoto-f-250mm-lens-p-screw-mount-lens-in-clean/p/630053693

Serial nr is H32xxxx.
Does anyone know who is the manufacturer or can even comment on its performance please ? Thanks guys

@ stevemark: Does it look like the mount can be changed on your lens (T-mount maybe)?
There is an identical lens around here with a MD mount if I'm seeing the pictures right. I can't use MDs with my stuff but if the mount can be replaced I'd be interested.