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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:

I can't show it here because of copyright,


There is no limitation on showing such an image under Fair Use doctrine.


Like 1 Like 1 1)Show as in-line image (use Img button before and again after pasting link) 2)give attribution.

DOWNLOADING A COPY TO YOUR COMPUTER THEN UPLOADING HERE IS NOT FAIR USE! IN FACT. DOING THAT WOULD BE *TWO* COPRIGHT VIOLATIONS!!!

example:

Photo from https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachrichten/kultur/medien/565171-Fotoschaetze-aus-dem-Archiv-des-Albert-Kahn.html


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:

Example: Do you believe in the so-called "3d-pop"? I don't. I have already addressed this issue here in the forum a few years ago. It already starts here. ..


I believe in the 3D pop. Then I don't. Then I do. It keeps the addiction going.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
RokkorDoctor wrote:

I can't show it here because of copyright,


There is no limitation on showing such an image under Fair Use doctrine.


Like 1 Like 1 1)Show as in-line image (use Img button before and again after pasting link) 2)give attribution


You guys sure about that? I was under the impression that "Fair Use" refers to quotation of very limited passages in books only, for eduactional and review purposes only, and that it does not apply to images. And that "Fair use" is interpreted differently in law depending on the country (certainly by the copyright holder). US law may be different here from UK law; I'm not an expert.

I could be wrong...

EDIT: The Wiener Zeitung are not the copyright holder here in any case, it is the Musée Albert-Kahn in France.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
@Mark

You are absolutely right. Paricularly when it comes to pictures the different law situation is quite different in every country and copyright exceptions like "fair use" (which is a term limited for the U.S. only) as well.

But that's an old story that our friends from the U.S. believe that things are the same everywhere, just because it's common sense within the U.S. Wink

However, as Albert Kahn already died in 1940 there is no such thing like copyright on his pictures any longer. Copyright expires in most countries in Europe max. 70 years after death automatically.
Here the U.S. is different again, but this site is located in Europe. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
@Mark

You are absolutely right. Paricularly when it comes to pictures the different law situation is quite different in every country and copyright exceptions like "fair use" (which is a term limited for the U.S. only) as well.

But that's an old story that our friends from the U.S. believe that things are the same everywhere, just because it's common sense within the U.S. Wink

However, as Albert Kahn already died in 1940 there is no such thing like copyright on his pictures any longer. Copyright expires in most countries in Europe max. 70 years after death automatically.
Here the U.S. is different again, but this site is located in Europe. Wink


This kind of issue is not limited to law;
You should see the confusion that ensues when our Imperial-oriented American friends start talking informally to their metric-oriented European counterparts in "mils" as a measure of thickness. And then the English engineer jumps in to confuse matters even more with their "thou" (at least more confusing to non-UK Europeans, generally; I believe the Americans are at least familiar with the "thou" as well as the "mil", which is the same) Wink

US: official unit "mil": 1/1000 inch
Europe: colloquial use of "mil" by non-native English-speakers: 1 millimetre
UK: coloquial "thou": 1/1000 inch


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mark, don't tell me stories about cultural differences. I used to work in many different international conferences, working groups and committees all around the world for many years. Wink
Sometimes it was very funny indeed.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There sure is a lot of misunderstanding of copyright law being tossed about here. Might be a good topic for a full thread, since so many of us post pics.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
There sure is a lot of misunderstanding of copyright law being tossed about here. Might be a good topic for a full thread, since so many of us post pics.


I'm not too sure. I already pointed out that this site is located in Europe, therefore the rather tricky U.S. copyright laws are not really very important for the rest of the world.
Maybe it may still be an issue for U.S. citizens, because the U.S. law isn't limited to U.S. territory, but this again doesn't affect the rest of the world.

Be assured that the maximum copyright period within Europe is 70 years after the original copyright holder died, from this time on it's officially public domain.
I can legally copy and play music from e.g. Fats Waller, even public here in Europe. Not too sure about the U.S., maybe somebody already bought the rights.

I know that the U.S. is hard working on methods to keep the copyright forever as this would be a very nice income for certain groups of people.
I can't see this to come in Europe, no way!

The other story is clear. You are not allowed to use my pictures without my permission. There is no "fair use" in Europe and the unauthorized use of pictures can be really costly here. Here we are talking about real money.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
There sure is a lot of misunderstanding of copyright law being tossed about here. Might be a good topic for a full thread, since so many of us post pics.


Agreed!

Photographs and Images: What is Fair Use? https://libguides.unm.edu/images/fairuse
Quote:
It is fair use to use an image for teaching in person and online and for research, scholarship, and study. It is fair use to display images to convey a scholarly argument or to convey information.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As a resident (for now) of the US, I'm a bit concerned about your statement(s) that US copyright law can be tricky. I have always been under the impression that it lasts for 70 years after the author's death. So, what, buying the rights to a piece of music extends the copyright somehow? What a load of crap. That will be one law I will gleefully disobey, if true. I am a musician and a composer and there are lots of pieces of music I would like to copy and rearrange, where desired, whose composers have died more than 70 years ago, many of whom were American. So, I find your comments a bit distressing. There's even one piece I'm currently working on that was written by the Mexican composer Manuel Poncé, who died in 1950. I actually checked Mexican copyright law, only to find it is also 70 years, which gave me a bit of relief, since I was thinking then it was the same as US copyright law.

As a composer, I can sort of find myself siding with the greedy fools who want to extend copyright forever. But ultimately I can see the harm that can come from this. I mean, what, would they make such a disastrous law retroactive? And what gives them the temerity to believe that anything political or social, or even human, will last forever? Makes me shiver a little.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
As a resident (for now) of the US, I'm a bit concerned about your statement(s) that US copyright law can be tricky. I have always been under the impression that it lasts for 70 years after the author's death. So, what, buying the rights to a piece of music extends the copyright somehow? What a load of crap. That will be one law I will gleefully disobey, if true. I am a musician and a composer and there are lots of pieces of music I would like to copy and rearrange, where desired, whose composers have died more than 70 years ago, many of whom were American. So, I find your comments a bit distressing. There's even one piece I'm currently working on that was written by the Mexican composer Manuel Poncé, who died in 1950. I actually checked Mexican copyright law, only to find it is also 70 years, which gave me a bit of relief, since I was thinking then it was the same as US copyright law.

As a composer, I can sort of find myself siding with the greedy fools who want to extend copyright forever. But ultimately I can see the harm that can come from this. I mean, what, would they make such a disastrous law retroactive? And what gives them the temerity to believe that anything political or social, or even human, will last forever? Makes me shiver a little.


U.S. presently: Either 95 years after first publication or 120 years after creation of the work - with the longer period applying in each case.
Mexico presently 100 years.

These are the periods as published in Wikipedia and usually this kind of information is correct there.

Generally, if there are no legal successors the copyright ends with the life of the owner.

Maybe you should recheck the situation with Manuel Poncé, at least before you publish your production.


PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote:
There sure is a lot of misunderstanding of copyright law being tossed about here. Might be a good topic for a full thread, since so many of us post pics.


Agreed!

Photographs and Images: What is Fair Use? https://libguides.unm.edu/images/fairuse
Quote:
It is fair use to use an image for teaching in person and online and for research, scholarship, and study. It is fair use to display images to convey a scholarly argument or to convey information.


As you like.

Maybe an admin is able to shift this conversation to a new thread somewhere else.
As we know then most people won't ever see it. Wink
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