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Restoring old cameras?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:02 pm    Post subject: Restoring old cameras? Reply with quote
Are there any ways to replace the worn black paint on old cameras? Can it be done with thick ink or something else, and would it be advisable to polish it with wax on both the plastic and metal parts in order to refresh the finish?


PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cameras that have paint on metal typically have black enamel baked onto brass. It's because of this method that touch-ups are problematic. I've used Sharpie markers, which will cover the brassed areas, but it rubs off pretty quickly. I've also used these paint pens you can buy -- they even have a little rattle ball inside. I've found gloss black enamel paint pens and I've used them on cameras. The paint lasts longer, but the patched area shows, and it will eventually flake off.

Bottom line, I've just come to accept brassing as a normal patina that indicates the sort of life the camera has lived.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Birchwood super black pens. I have successfully used one to touch up wear and scratches on all variety of cameras and lenses. I prefer the flat black for camera. Here it is on ebay
#1


PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Recently in the forum I learned about the products "Aluminum Black" and "Crinkle Paint"


PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
Birchwood super black pens. I have successfully used one to touch up wear and scratches on all variety of cameras and lenses. I prefer the flat black for camera. Here it is on ebay



Does it stay on when cleaned? I use a permanent marker pen for unsightly marks, but it wears off after a clean or two on metal, so have been looking for something better.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about using UV-resin mixed with black color powder? Maybe I should try that because I think that will give a very hard and resistant surface..


PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The challenge is blending it into the old surface, though.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
The challenge is blending it into the old surface, though.


Absolutely correct !!

It's surprising how many different colour "blacks" there are ... some are very dark green, very dark blue, or very dark grey ... all different to the "black" you've got on your brush.

The worst thing is that the difference often only shows once the "repair" is dry Sad


PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like this Tamiya Color Acrylic Paint, this is the X-18 semi gloss black, but there are other blacks. Get the jar of thinners as well.

I've used this on camera bodies and with some patience and practice made nearly invisible paint repairs. Apply the paint sparingly with a tiny artists brush, then when it becomes tacky, lick your finger and gently rub the paint surface, you will see brush marks flatten and dissapear, and at the edges where the new paint meets the old it can be smoothed to match the original paint thickness, and a thin layer of new paint can be blended in on top of the original. If it looks awful, wipe it off with a bit of the thinners, and try again. The rubbing with a wet finger also 'adjusts' the level of gloss. With a bit of practice this technique works well, especially where the camera paint is chipped on film door hinges and corners. It's more difficult on 'patina' wear such as top plates where fingers rub, but I like that patina and leave that alone.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tamiya-Acrylic-Mini-Gloss-Black/dp/B000BX5EKM/ref=pd_sbs_21_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000BX5EKM&pd_rd_r=9ec732ab-a40f-11e9-b65a-2f57212fe850&pd_rd_w=ND6cv&pd_rd_wg=syPtC&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=D3DVP75NZ8W41YNQRJ3K&psc=1&refRID=D3DVP75NZ8W41YNQRJ3K


PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sciolist wrote:
philslizzy wrote:
Birchwood super black pens. I have successfully used one to touch up wear and scratches on all variety of cameras and lenses. I prefer the flat black for camera. Here it is on ebay



Does it stay on when cleaned? I use a permanent marker pen for unsightly marks, but it wears off after a clean or two on metal, so have been looking for something better.


Yes it's a paint originally designed for guns. It's as permanent as it gets, it is not a permanent marker.[/b]


PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lloydy wrote:
I like this Tamiya Color Acrylic Paint, this is the X-18 semi gloss black, but there are other blacks. Get the jar of thinners as well.

I've used this on camera bodies and with some patience and practice made nearly invisible paint repairs. Apply the paint sparingly with a tiny artists brush, then when it becomes tacky, lick your finger and gently rub the paint surface, you will see brush marks flatten and dissapear, and at the edges where the new paint meets the old it can be smoothed to match the original paint thickness, and a thin layer of new paint can be blended in on top of the original. If it looks awful, wipe it off with a bit of the thinners, and try again. The rubbing with a wet finger also 'adjusts' the level of gloss. With a bit of practice this technique works well, especially where the camera paint is chipped on film door hinges and corners. It's more difficult on 'patina' wear such as top plates where fingers rub, but I like that patina and leave that alone.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tamiya-Acrylic-Mini-Gloss-Black/dp/B000BX5EKM/ref=pd_sbs_21_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000BX5EKM&pd_rd_r=9ec732ab-a40f-11e9-b65a-2f57212fe850&pd_rd_w=ND6cv&pd_rd_wg=syPtC&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=D3DVP75NZ8W41YNQRJ3K&psc=1&refRID=D3DVP75NZ8W41YNQRJ3K


Dave's idea is good, I've done it myself and like the idea of adjusting the level of gloss but the paint can wear off if the lens or camera is well used. i've discovered that through experience.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about using the acrylic paint and have a thin layer with UV-resin on top of that? Wouldn´t that prevent the wear off problem? And is Tamiya Color Acrylic Paint different from ordinary artist acrylic paint?


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The acrylic paint used by artists is very thick, yet dries rather quickly. It can be thinned, though. As for whether it's the same or not, the way I see it, acrylic is acrylic. So its properties will probably be similar, if not the same.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coefficients of expansion differences large enough can cause layer separation problems.

Add pigment to the uv resin.Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
Yes it's a paint originally designed for guns. It's as permanent as it gets, it is not a permanent marker.[/b]



Thanks.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
philslizzy wrote:
Sciolist wrote:
philslizzy wrote:
Birchwood super black pens. I have successfully used one to touch up wear and scratches on all variety of cameras and lenses. I prefer the flat black for camera. Here it is on ebay



Does it stay on when cleaned? I use a permanent marker pen for unsightly marks, but it wears off after a clean or two on metal, so have been looking for something better.


Yes it's a paint originally designed for guns. It's as permanent as it gets, it is not a permanent marker.[/b]


Good to hear that. Great tip, thanks. I could use some of that.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Birchwood Casey makes good stuff. I've used their instant gun blue, works very well. And their TruOil is a great, general purpose wood finish. It leaves a thin, hard finish. Besides gunstocks, I've used it to finish furniture and guitars. Not much wood on cameras -- except maybe old field cameras, in which case, I would recommend it highly. So, it doesn't surprise me their paint pens work as well as they do.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I simply remove the dust from the equipment and then use a couple of applications of a black permanent marker and covering it with ArmorAll protectant (sprayed on a soft cloth) over the entire camera. You'll never notice the scuffs or brassing and the protectant leaves a pleasing appearance. It's an easy thing to do, you aren't going to see it, and looks better than paint that won't match.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
The challenge is blending it into the old surface, though.



Persnickety firearms dealers and buyers are absolutely no different from camera dealers and buyers when it comes to condition.

What this conversation is about is, "fooling" people using products, which includes yourself.

Who would announce and tell this to the world?

"Hey everyone I paint over and doctor up my stuff!"

Touched up to cover over flaws on purpose to hide a fact from you?

Seasoned people see this in a wink of an eye.

People who touch up and alter make it about them because once spotted it is about their character as a person, not their belonging?

A discussion on Touching Up creates a perception of its own, one I believe is not a good for those involved?

Look at the message this topic sends out to others?


"I alter and retouch my stuff to fool people"

Either you say it right up front what you did, and people intent on misrepresentation are hardly candidates to be open if the intent was to fool, or you do what...not tell the truth?

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but only the ones dumber than yourself to begin with



Just like hiking in the woods, when a bear attacks you don't have to be fast just faster than the one you're with?

So touching up is for who? If you need black paint because the finish is worn? Go buy a better sample and keep the commerce ball rolling without destroying your reputation by revealing what you do and have done?

If you want it for yourself only that is one thing, and as hard as that is to buy for me? ....Original is still the only Original there is, touched up simply is not Original and it will be held against you in more ways than you figured, both the item and you are tarnished by any touch up and it's not worth it, there truly is no gain unless fooling someone is somehow your gain?

It's proof for new or young buyers, people do use techniques to trick and fool unsuspecting buyers and take advantage of them...another negative message in this thread bottle?

A constructive conversation would be about the importance of originality and original condition, why that is more valued and an investment because no matter what the intent was regarding this topic? It creates a perception, it enlightens people that cameras and lenses are altered and that breaks trust for everyone reading that comes along?

I certainly won't apologize for critiquing this threads topic, that's what I did and it's not a personal attack, it is waking people up to their own unawareness, how certain discussions are far beyond innocent and which color marking pen one should apply has much deeper implications than flat or gloss is best?

Welcome Turtle

(I am well well past 60, when I was young the camera collectors and dealers at shows could spot a nick on your lens as you walked in the door and if they didn't the first dealer/collector table you stopped at would...and before you left that table for another? Every dealer in that show would be aware. Guys the same age as me today back then...one tiny nick or scratch? They wouldn't even talk to you ..... not only wouldn't you get an offer, you got shut out and ignored. If you walk in with marked up lens or camera, you'd be banned from ever being talked to there and labeled. The old guys I dealt with, people would ask, "well how much would you give me then?". I'm sorry I wouldn't be interested at any price, that's how persnickety they were. Look at ebay today; 'no scratches no dings no dents' was standard practice once in ad writing, now it's rare and almost non-mattering today? The good old days, please... they had strict principles and did not budge, that my friends is frustrating beyond belief and how is that good? Today we are far less persnickety and have loose standards, so much that people talk openly about breaking a cardinal rule, I mean a mortal sin in camera collecting.... I almost sense, such a discussion makes me feel this need to go check graves and make sure they are still all packed down and well?)


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:39 pm    Post subject: repairs v/s cosmetics Reply with quote
It si rather like with museum repairs where glued seams and missing bits are made visible so that researchers could distinguish original material and colour from current additions. Signs of use and age are part of the objects history.

As a user of classic cameras and lenses I do not bother about aesthetics and disregard cosmetics, but repairs to machinery so as to make a camera or a lens work as intended is absolutely allowable even if the new lubrication has another composition since I do not exhibit..

It would for instance be too strictly sticking to museum standards to demand DDR grease on a Flektogon helix. One can, however prefer an original metal snap-on lid for a macro-Switar to the modern plastic one, even if it does not fit with the vintage. For practical reasons one may make a camera body less conspicious & black: I once used black tape all over a IIIc, mainly because I did not have any black paint handy.

p.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr. Disjointed wrote:


Persnickety firearms dealers ...


That stream of projection contains a towering level of arrogance I've rarely seen outside, say, digital forums. You've reminded me why I don't visit them. Why are you visiting yourself on us Mr. Disjointed? You should not try and impose the straight jacket you inhabit on other people, sir. It's not your place.

Apologies cooltouch, I know you can more than answer for yourself. It's just so disappointing to read that empty diatribe.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr. Disjointed wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
The challenge is blending it into the old surface, though.


What this conversation is about is, "fooling" people using products, which includes yourself.
"Hey everyone I paint over and doctor up my stuff!"
Touched up to cover over flaws on purpose to hide a fact from you?
People who touch up and alter make it about them because once spotted it is about their character as a person, not their belonging?


What a strange rant!

I not only repair cameras and lenses, but in an earlier life I have been caring for expensive scientific stuff such as mass spectrometers, each one worth many 100k$. I would never have dreamt of not repairing any - even very small - defect!

"Fooling people?" Not at all. I kept the expensive stuff running, 24h a day, and seven days a week. With turbopumps running at 60'000 rpm, continously. And with surfaces that had to be extremely smooth and extremely clean: We've been analyzing amounts of just a few hundred femtograms, sometimes. Not caring for my machines would have meant "fooling people".

"I doctor up my stuff?" Of course! That's what I was paid for, at University, and that's what I still do Wink

"Touched up to cover over flaws to hide a fact from me?" Uh-oh ... I simply love things looking nice, clean, and like new. Sometimes, of course, that's not possible ...

"People who touch up and alter make it about them because once spotted it is about their character as a person, not their belonging?"
Yep, my character is to keep things in a nice and beautiful state. Yours may be different. though Wink

Don't take all this too serious, and please don't distract and disturb those who are caring for their equipment.

S


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevemark wrote:
Mr. Disjointed wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
The challenge is blending it into the old surface, though.


What this conversation is about is, "fooling" people using products, which includes yourself.
"Hey everyone I paint over and doctor up my stuff!"
Touched up to cover over flaws on purpose to hide a fact from you?
People who touch up and alter make it about them because once spotted it is about their character as a person, not their belonging?


What a strange rant!

I not only repair cameras and lenses, but in an earlier life I have been caring for expensive scientific stuff such as mass spectrometers, each one worth many 100k$. I would never have dreamt of not repairing any - even very small - defect!

"Fooling people?" Not at all. I kept the expensive stuff running, 24h a day, and seven days a week. With turbopumps running at 60'000 rpm, continously. And with surfaces that had to be extremely smooth and extremely clean: We've been analyzing amounts of just a few hundred femtograms, sometimes. Not caring for my machines would have meant "fooling people".

"I doctor up my stuff?" Of course! That's what I was paid for, at University, and that's what I still do Wink

"Touched up to cover over flaws to hide a fact from me?" Uh-oh ... I simply love things looking nice, clean, and like new. Sometimes, of course, that's not possible ...

"People who touch up and alter make it about them because once spotted it is about their character as a person, not their belonging?"
Yep, my character is to keep things in a nice and beautiful state. Yours may be different. though Wink

Don't take all this too serious, and please don't distract and disturb those who are caring for their equipment.

S


Whats the guy's name? ahh, Mr Disjointed. nuff said


PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Only one person here correctly assigned meaning to the word "restoring". Everybody else correctly interpreted what was actually meant. Not about rare and valuable pieces...

Painters at auto body shops might have some tips.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Painters at auto body shops might have some tips.[/quote]

With old Land Rovers and other working vehicles it is sometimes desirable to keep the knocks and scars of a long life in order to preserve originality while others prefer concourse condition and would shrink from loading on tools and rubbish needing to be hauled away somewhere.

The external appearance of an old camera might signal its corresponding hard life as something worth relishing, or signal a preference for the concourse. In both cases, faking the appearance in order to appear as something it is not, is cheating if not made known to a buyer.

p.
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