Rate your favorite lenses (f/1.2 and faster)

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3930 Location: Switzerland

This is a slightly more systematic evaluation of onE of those lenses (no nice models yet, I'm sorry)!

ATTENTION: CLICK TWICE ON THE IMAGES TO SEE THEM AT 100% (MY BROWSER IS ENLARGING THEM TO MAYBE 140% WHICH CAUSES THEM TO LOOK TERRIBLY BLURRED; IN ADDITION MANY COLOR SUBLTLETIES ARE BLOWN OUT)

First a 100% crop from the center (24 MP FF Sony A7II). Strong and obvious purple fringing as well as "glow" at f1.2; freinging and glow nearly gone at f2.0, and fringing and glow completely gone at f2.4:

Surprisingly constistent image quality all over the 24 MF frame at f1.2:

Image quality / rendering near the 24 MP FF corner at f1.2, f2.8, f5.6 and f11:

S

papasito · Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1659

By far, my best 1,2 lens is the Sony 50/1,2 in MF mode.
Very sharp and nice bokeh from wide open

RokkorDoctor · Expire: 2025-05-01

BrianSVP · Joined: 09 Jun 2023 Posts: 335 Location: Philadelphia

I'm sure sample variation plays a role. My experiences with this lens vis a vis the Minolta 58s are more or less the reverse of what yours are, with the Minolta showing substantially more CA and poorer center sharpness wide open, at least on digital. This is shot on a Lumix S5 (with a relatively thin 1.45mm sensor stack) at "only" 24mp, but at full res it is pretty dang close to tack sharp at the sweet spot in the center, with individual eyebrow hairs, eyelashes, and pores on the subject's forehead showing well-defined edges, and the softness on the eyes is caused by being slightly behind the plane of focus. The in-thread display softens the appearance somewhat, and if you click on it, you'll get a somewhat larger (1600px) version that better shows the detail. Would the sharpness hold up on a 61mp sensor like on the A7IV? Well, perhaps not, but that is true of most vintage lenses. Stopped down further, this lens gets even better and behaves very similarly to the very well-regarded Tomioka 55mm f/1.4s The 1964 coatings are fairly primitive, and the overall contrast isn't as high as what you'd see on the Hexanon 57 1.2 or the Oly 50 1.2, but the sharpness is there.

This echos your point that this class of lenses can be very difficult to evaluate in real world shooting, since they are much less forgiving of technique than lenses with greater DOF. Combine the shallow DOF with the heavy field curvature inherent in these designs (significantly worse on 60's designs like this one than on the relatively modern Minolta/Sony AF lenses you mentioned you tested for Sony), and that one of their primary use cases is low light shooting where you are apt to encounter more motion blur, and things get even more challenging.

This shot, for example, I took at an evening Christmas party in fairly dim artificial light, and the subject wasn't really posing - she had just plopped down on a couch, and I wheeled around took the photo on aperture priority at ISO400, with what turned out to be a 1/50 sec shutter, and I was fortunate enough to capture an image that was very close to being perfectly in focus with little motion blur, but an ostensibly identical one I took a second and a half later is a blurry mess.

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3930 Location: Switzerland

blotafton · Joined: 08 Aug 2013 Posts: 1616 Location: Sweden

Interesting read so far.

I have 3:

MC Rokkor 58mm 1.2 no PG
Zuiko 55mm 1.2
Porst 50mm 1.2

I like the Rokkor the most but I see all of them as special bokeh tools and don't look much at sharpness.
The Zuiko is the most wild with its bokeh and flare, some probably rate it badly because of that but it's one of the best when it comes to character.

The Porst (Fujinon) is the one I have used the least but it seems to be quite good technically. It can have an interesting flare pattern too.

Samples from Rokkor 58mm:

On film the bokeh gets chopped a bit.

Olympus Zuiko 55mm 1.2

Porst Color Reflex 50mm 1.2

lumens pixel · Expire: 2021-06-25

BrianSVP · Joined: 09 Jun 2023 Posts: 335 Location: Philadelphia

Huh? The image and lens you were specifically commenting on as "not sharp" in the message to which I replied. Canon FL 55/1.2.

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

simple.joy · Joined: 30 May 2022 Posts: 587

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3930 Location: Switzerland

cyberjunkie · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:16 am Post subject:

A warm thank you to all the user who contributed.
I found a lot of interesting info.
I'm still unsure if it makes sense at all to buy a Chinese super-fast manual lens, given that I already own four 50/55mm f/1.2.
Maybe it's worth to wait a little more and take the time to check the performance of my new (to me) Porst/X-Fujinon 1.2/50mm. From what I have read it seems it has very good sharpness, at least at the center of the frame, but no outstanding bokeh. Unfortunately I value the latter much more than the former. That's why I have this itching for the new Mr. Ding Mark II 1.1/50mm in M mount. The bokeh seems to be really first class, and I love the pics I have seen. It could work with all the cameras I use, but one: the Pentax K-1. It would be a real pity, cause the K-1 has the best IQ (by far) of all the cameras I own... but in exchange I might even have the chance to use the new Chinese lens with my old Leica M5 and CL, that sadly sit in a drawer since sooo looong Smile

The new ultras fast Chinese objectives seem to have a pretty decent bokeh on average. It's a surprise to me. On the other hand the sharpness stopped down is not so much better than the best vintage fifties. I expected better.
Regarding vintage lenses, apart the Canon FD aspherical (which is an unlikely candidate cause I doubt it will ever fall on my lap for almost nothing), I have a fascination for the Hexanon 57mm. As far as I understand it should fall on the opposite side of the Porst/Fujinon in the superfast fifties range: beautiful bokeh, not great sharpness especially in the borders. Again, I doubt I will find one for a decent price any time soon. It took looong time to find the X-Fujinon 1.2/50mm (actually its Porst twin) for a good price. I could find it under 200 euros because it was on a camera, and the auction had terrible pictures. Unfortunately the lens was mentioned in the description, so I had to win some competition. Ebay is not the place for great finds since quite long. Almost always there are other users who saw the same opportunity.

The previous posts on this thread have directed my attention to the issue of the thick sensor stack of my A7II camera.
I guess that's the reason why some of my vintage lenses perform so poorly on the Sony.
I believe it doesn't affect just the wide angles with short register. I found that some optical designs (even in reflex mount) perform in an unexpectedly poor way.
One example is a Steinheil Culmigon 4.5/35mm in M42 mount I just tried. IIRC it should have a 4E/4G design, with a VERY small back element. My guess is that the light rays coming off that tiny element hit the sensor surface at an angle, and that's not what the Sony sensor likes. Oh, well... it's also possible that the lens is a lemon, but for sure it's not what to expect from Steinheil lenses of the same vintage. I have a 4.5/200mm that is incredibly good for its age, with beautiful bokeh, no CA and more than sufficient sharpness. When I did a shoot-out between my best 180/200mm lenses, against all odds the Steinheil came out quite close to the top!

Thanks again
Cheers
Paolo

kymarto · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:27 am Post subject:

For bokeh I like the Canon 50mm f1.2 LTM
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The FJW Industries 90mm f1.0 is also interesting

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stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3930 Location: Switzerland

BrianSVP · Joined: 09 Jun 2023 Posts: 335 Location: Philadelphia

Wow, that really is some wild bokeh on the Canon! Reminiscent of the Petri Orrikor 50/2. Gonna have to keep an eye out for one of these.

jamaeolus · Expire: 2015-08-20

I have the konica 57mm 1.2, a minolta 58mm 1.2, a Canon 55mm 1.2, Olympus OM 50mm 1.2. Of those I like the Konica the most for its rendering. I like the size and ergonomics of the oly and it lives in my carry bag along with the 24 f2, 28 f2, 40 f2.

cyberjunkie · Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 4:21 pm Post subject:

kathala · Joined: 13 May 2022 Posts: 141

If you care about bokeh, look here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RDo_Nnv7QNMOergfo_8neazeNgnJeZhn1uN_aG1_zGM

My favourites for bokeh are Leica Noctilux f/1 and Canon .95, which however is not too sharp off-centre. Canon FD 1.2L is great. Non-L has a bit more SA, but more characterful bokeh, and is cheaper.
Also look at Experimentaloptics 50/.75
Tomioka has very characterful bokeh, but low detail sharpness.

You know there are wider fast lenses, too? Although no wider fast lens has lovely bokeh, I find.
But I do love some longer ones, such as Canon 58/1.2 (subjectively; there are sharper lenses, but bokeh is great and price too); Canon 85/1.2 is razor sharp but bokeh is a bit boring; Nikon CRT-Nikkor Auto f/1.2 and f/1 have characterful bokeh, as do the Canon X and Astro Berlin Tachon(ar)s (see chapter two of docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WKzZoHmyEaVV18iuB7oP-CcAxf_QLwAYhyL-vjYFIBE ; scroll down for a table of ALL fast lenses for SLR and rangefinder.)

All modern lenses (Sony, Canon 50/1.2) are VERY sharp, but also VERY boring. not for you.

@BrianSVP and @blotafton Great images!!

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3930 Location: Switzerland

ZuikosHexanonsandVivitars · Joined: 03 Nov 2021 Posts: 249 Location: Austria

My only f1.2 is the Zuiko 50mm 1.2. Just one version of this lens exists, introduced 1982. I got mine in the mid 90s. Looks snug, but itÂ´s still a biggie compared to its slower colleagues. ItÂ´s sometimes fun, like below with the Christmas decoration. IÂ´ve done portrait with it as well and from portrait distance the bokeh is much smoother.
All ISO 100 all and Sony Alpha 7ii

Image #1 to #7 are taken very close to minimum focus distance, which is 0,45m
#1 1/320s, f1.2.

#2 Crop from above. (please donÂ´t judge from the preview) Fully open a bit soft and some issues with CA

# 1/200s, f2

#3 Crop from above

#4 1/25s, f5.6

#5 Crop from above

#6 1/500s, f1.2 and almost backlight. A little issue with contrast in this light situation wide open, which will mostly disappear when closed down like on the next image.

#7 1/40s, f5.6

Next motive shows a much calmer light situation and distance to pane of sharpness is about 1m. The bokeh is smoother in this focus distance. In my perception, sharpness gets better until f2.8. After that, closing down only increases the DOF. I never go beyond f8 except in superwides and if I really need the DOF, so I donÂ´t look into diffraction.
#8 1/100s, f1.2.

#9 Crop taken from image above

#10 Crop from a similar image like #8, 1/10s, f5.6

Night/dusk is the supreme discipline of fast 50s, so thatÂ´s the last motive. Sorry, the image is a bit of an embarrassment, but it shows everything to be expected from this lens in this light situation wide open.

#11 0,33s, f1.2.

#12 Crop from center area

#13 Crop from the edge

To conclude, IÂ´m irrationally glad I have this lens. ItÂ´s perfectly machined, great fun to use, and it balances exceptionally well on the Sony. Apart from that, itÂ´s expensive these days, and fwiw, all of my f1.4 standard lenses outperform the Zuiko 50mm f1.2. So itÂ´s mainly a never dying curiosity that has me take this lens once in a while, and for the same reason IÂ´m patiently waiting for a Hexanon 57 f1.2 to come my way the stevemark way Mr. Green

stevemark · Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3930 Location: Switzerland

visualopsins · Expire: 2025-04-11

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backsidewalkaround · Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Posts: 94 Location: Germany

I'm a bit late to the party, but still wanted to share my opinion. I think it doesn't make sense to evaluate vintage f/1.2 lenses for their corner to corner sharpness at f/1.2, because modern lenses will be sharper and generally less troubled by aberrations. The reasons to get one of those lenses, apart from collecting, would be to like them exactly for their faults, for their character. Particularly the wide open SA and the softness is what I really like about most of them.

Of the lenses I know, the Canon FD 1.2/55 SSC, the Minolta MC Rokkor 1.2/58 and the Nikon AI 1.2/50 have lots of wide open softness and glow. Stopping them down to f/2 changes this behaviour almost completely, making them sharp and contasty over most of the frame. The greatest leap can be observed with the Nikkor. It's very sharp and contrasty at f/2 (obviously not out to the far corners, but it reaches quite far).
More controlled, yet very nicely soft at portrait distance is the Auto Revuenon 1.2/55, which I would pick up to shoot these kind of portraits.
I also have the Porst 1.2/50 X-M UMC for Fujica. Great value lens. I'd say it has less wide open softness than the others and is about as sharp.

The mentioned vintage lenses all have more or less characterful bokeh, which doesn't always appear, because being f/1.2 lenses they blur away the background quite quickly often resulting in very soft out of focus areas. Not too distant foliage on the other hand will reveal their character.

I also have the Syoptic 1.1/50 the predecessor of the Mr. Ding lens, which has bokeh that is quite a bit softer. Else it's about as sharp as the vintage lenses. For the 180â‚¬ I paid for it, it has incredible value. From images I've seen on the web, I think I'd prefer it to the Noctilux Smile

. The ministry of finance here at my home probably agrees.

I also have the ZhongYi Mitakon Speedmaster 0.95/50 II. It's quite sharp wide open for its speed, has little SA trouble, but in some situations some nasty green bokeh fringing. Else than that it has the nicest soft bokeh of them all and neat clean colors. Stopped down to f/5.6 or f/8 I wouldn't mind using it as a landscape lens (if I didn't have another one with me particularly able in that category).

I also have the Canon 1.2/85 L. In my opinion it's nicely sharp wide open at portrait distance. It's not meant to be a landscape lens. In that category others are sharper.

cyberjunkie · Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:02 am Post subject:

backsidewalkaround · Joined: 22 Jan 2018 Posts: 94 Location: Germany