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Problems getting good focus
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Problems getting good focus Reply with quote
So, I got my first adapter in the mail last week and went out shooting this weekend. I am having a hard time getting crisp focus. I was using a tripod with live view, zoomed in 10x. I could easily see crisp focus on the LCD, but when the picture was taken, it didn't look anywhere near as sharp on the file. I even used a 2 second delay, even though the shutter speed was fast enough to not need it.

I don't have examples with me, but I could get some later when I get home. Sometimes, the lens is crisp (when I am practicing), but most of my outdoor shots look OOF or fuzzy. I'm using a Canon 60D, shooting raw, and the lens in question is a Pentax SMC 50mm 1.7. At 1.7 it's a bit soft, but even at f4, it seems pretty soft and only randomly does it seem to have crisp focus.

Am I missing something?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had similar experience in past and I did start to use split screen in my E-1 my success rate dramatically changed after. My split screen is Katz-Eye.

On my Panasonic G1 EV finder is such a perfect tool in most case I don't need to use magnification spot focus is visible in finder.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
I had similar experience in past and I did start to use split screen in my E-1 my success rate dramatically changed after. My split screen is Katz-Eye.

On my Panasonic G1 EV finder is such a perfect tool in most case I don't need to use magnification spot focus is visible in finder.


I'm confused... So, even though I see focus on the screen, It won't be in focus on the actual capture? This doesn't make much sense. Maybe I could try just the viewfinder?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cowanrg wrote:
Attila wrote:
I had similar experience in past and I did start to use split screen in my E-1 my success rate dramatically changed after. My split screen is Katz-Eye.

On my Panasonic G1 EV finder is such a perfect tool in most case I don't need to use magnification spot focus is visible in finder.


I'm confused... So, even though I see focus on the screen, It won't be in focus on the actual capture? This doesn't make much sense. Maybe I could try just the viewfinder?


Yes it can be happen with normal focusing screen especially if not properly adjusted.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tripod, mirrow lock up, focusing via liveview and still the pics are not sharp? Now that is weird.

Were you standing on a ship or next to a busy airfield? Very Happy

No seriously, got to wait for the pictures. The way it seems to be now absolutely makes no sense to me.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
cowanrg wrote:
Attila wrote:
I had similar experience in past and I did start to use split screen in my E-1 my success rate dramatically changed after. My split screen is Katz-Eye.

On my Panasonic G1 EV finder is such a perfect tool in most case I don't need to use magnification spot focus is visible in finder.


I'm confused... So, even though I see focus on the screen, It won't be in focus on the actual capture? This doesn't make much sense. Maybe I could try just the viewfinder?


Yes it can be happen with normal focusing screen especially if not properly adjusted.


I think the two of you are talking past each other. Attila is right, misfocused pictures due to focusing screens that are not adjusted are a very common problem with DSLRs, but here Liveview was used. The pictures could have been taken without any focusing screen at all. Very Happy

(Edit: Olé, double post again!)


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
8310 wrote:
Attila wrote:
cowanrg wrote:
Attila wrote:
I had similar experience in past and I did start to use split screen in my E-1 my success rate dramatically changed after. My split screen is Katz-Eye.

On my Panasonic G1 EV finder is such a perfect tool in most case I don't need to use magnification spot focus is visible in finder.


I'm confused... So, even though I see focus on the screen, It won't be in focus on the actual capture? This doesn't make much sense. Maybe I could try just the viewfinder?


Yes it can be happen with normal focusing screen especially if not properly adjusted.


I think the two of you are talking past each other. Attila is right, misfocused pictures due to focusing screens that are not adjusted are a very common problem with DSLRs, but here Liveview was used. The pictures could have been taken without any focusing screen at all. Very Happy

(Edit: Olé, double post again!)


exactly. through live view, my understanding is what you see is what you get...

I'll do a little bit more with it and post some pictures, but it seems to just not be that sharp. Can the Pentax be sharp at around ~2.8? It's not nearly as sharp as my Tamron 17-50 (it seems) at 2.8-3.2.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Assuming the Pentax is not damaged/decentered/whatever, it should be noticeably sharper than your Tamron, all the more at 2.8. The 50/1.7 has the reputation of being a very sharp lens, even wide open.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You are right. Normally with Live View the images must be sharp. That´s not a question of split screen or whatever.

You wrote that the images are not sharp from file, only at your computer screen or on the cam LCD as well. Maybe your settings within the cam are not proper. Did you shot in raw modus or jpeg. What´s about the sharpening level in the cam ?

I believe that you own the 60D only few days because it is a very new type.

Wink


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rolf wrote:
You are right. Normally with Live View the images must be sharp. That´s not a question of split screen or whatever.

You wrote that the images are not sharp from file, only at your computer screen or on the cam LCD as well. Maybe your settings within the cam are not proper. Did you shot in raw modus or jpeg. What´s about the sharpening level in the cam ?

I believe that you own the 60D only few days because it is a very new type.

Wink


I shoot raw + jpeg, but I am referring to the raw, looked at at 100% in lightroom. I owned the T1i before this, so I am pretty familiar with everything. I shot the whole day with the Tamron and the Pentax and the Tamron was almost always sharper.

However, it CAN be sharp. this shot was with the Pentax at ~2.8

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genericprofilename/5200206471/

and one from the Tamron on the same day but at f5:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genericprofilename/5200207815/

and one from the Tarmon at f3.2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genericprofilename/5200205649/

So, I CAN get a sharp shot with both lenses, but the Pentax is VERY tricky. I had maybe 2-3 sharp shots out of 50 or more. All the Tamron shots were just fine, just not 'keepers'.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought Zacuto 3x Z-Finder Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bruce wrote:
I bought Zacuto 3x Z-Finder Very Happy


seems like a lot of money when i've got a perfectly good 1mp LCD screen with 10x zoom...


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only thing I can think of is a loose element which moves in the second between you focussing and taking the shot. Does the lens rattle when you shake it?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What adapter do you use? Does it lock tighly to both the lens and the camera mount?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe the antialiasing filter of the 60D starts working only when the photo is taken and not in the liveview preview?
I don't know, maybe a tech can reply.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
The only thing I can think of is a loose element which moves in the second between you focussing and taking the shot. Does the lens rattle when you shake it?


It's a pretty solid chunk, but that's a good idea though. I can shake it when I get home and see if there's some rattle.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
8310 wrote:
What adapter do you use? Does it lock tighly to both the lens and the camera mount?


I use one from Big_IS or whatever on eBay. It fits pretty tightly, but has a TINY bit of play to it. The diameter seems to be fraction of a mm, so you can slide it inside the mount (with some effort) about the thickness of paper maybe. The 'play' is about equivalent to the thickness of a piece of paper maybe. Could that matter?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you tried adjusting the focus and then letting go of the focus ring, sometimes you can get the focus right and then when you press the shutter and the liveview magnification disappears you can sometimes move the focus ring a tiny bit if you have your hand on it and change the focus slightly.

It shouldn't be such an issue on small lenses but on heavier 1 touch ones I have to be really careful to not inadvertently adjust the focus especially as I tend to recompose a little bit between cancelling the magnification and taking the photo.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cowanrg wrote:
8310 wrote:
What adapter do you use? Does it lock tighly to both the lens and the camera mount?


I use one from Big_IS or whatever on eBay. It fits pretty tightly, but has a TINY bit of play to it. The diameter seems to be fraction of a mm, so you can slide it inside the mount (with some effort) about the thickness of paper maybe. The 'play' is about equivalent to the thickness of a piece of paper maybe. Could that matter?


Is there any play if you move the lens forwards and backwards as opposed to twisting?, I had an adapter once and there was no rotational play but the lens would move quite far forwards away from the mount , when I supported the lens with my hand and focused it was pulling the lens away from the mount and then if the let go the lens moved back towards the camera a tiny bit and changed the focus.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
fatdeeman wrote:
cowanrg wrote:
8310 wrote:
What adapter do you use? Does it lock tighly to both the lens and the camera mount?


I use one from Big_IS or whatever on eBay. It fits pretty tightly, but has a TINY bit of play to it. The diameter seems to be fraction of a mm, so you can slide it inside the mount (with some effort) about the thickness of paper maybe. The 'play' is about equivalent to the thickness of a piece of paper maybe. Could that matter?


Is there any play if you move the lens forwards and backwards as opposed to twisting?, I had an adapter once and there was no rotational play but the lens would move quite far forwards away from the mount , when I supported the lens with my hand and focused it was pulling the lens away from the mount and then if the let go the lens moved back towards the camera a tiny bit and changed the focus.


No, there's no play forward and backward. Also, the focus ring is VERY smooth and secure. There is no play. Also, I was using 2 second delay for taking a lot of pictures, so my hands were off of the camera, and I verified focus before hitting the shutter. So, I couldn't have slipped it out of focus.

I had just assumed after seeing my pictures that it couldn't achieve sharp focus at less than f4. But even my old nifty fifty could be pretty darn sharp at 1.8.

I'll submit some pictures when I get home and see what you think.

Also, on my other lenses, I can view them at 100% crop, and it doesn't look grainy or pixelated, but the Pentax, even when it seems sharp, doesn't look as great at 100%. I'll keep trying! I need my other adapters to show up since I also have an Olympus Zuiko 50mm, and a helios 44-2 to play with. I can compare against those.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Update:

So, I went home and was going to post a picture, but ended up not finding anything that was really bad. I do have one, that I clearly remember being on the tripod, focusing it perfectly, etc, but I forgot to post it.

But, I did realize part of my problem... I have always done RAW+jpeg output (I process the raws that I like, and just archive the jpegs for showing family or whatever). The 60D gives you the option of selecting the file size and quality of the jpeg (my T1i, you could only do raw + best quality jpeg). So, the jpegs that I was looking at were 3mp instead of 18m so of course it didn't look as crisp at full zoom. plus, who knows what sharpening settings and such they are at, since I don't really worry about them. So, my fault there. When I opened the raw files, they looked a lot better. I really only had 2-3 that were out of focus that shouldn't have been.

I did notice a LOT of CA from this lens. Is this common? I was at 3.2 I believe and it was a very foggy overcast day, yet there was some significant (more than I'm used to EVER seeing) blue fringe around edges in a couple images.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Heh. I was immediately thinking that you should check your Picture Style settings and see where your image sharpness is set. If you haven't done this yet, you should. But be aware that you might not like what you get if you crank up this value. Your 60D is a much nicer camera than mine, so perhaps it handles the increased sharpness better than mine does.

My EOS defaults its sharpness setting to 3 out of a possible 7. Once I discovered this setting, I was puzzled why it defaulted to such a low number, and bumped it up to 5 or 6, as I recall. Quite a bit later, I noticed that diagonal lines in my photos had taken on a stair-step quality and I came to realize this problem was because I had the sharpness setting set too high.

Personally I find this very aggravating, and wonder if other EOS cameras are as deficient in this regard as mine is. Mine's a cheapo XS (1000D). When I use Canon's DPP to adjust my raw images, I've noticed that I can bump up the sharpness somewhat in the software -- maybe to 5 or 6 -- before the stair steps become very noticeable, but if I don't want to see any trace of them, I have to leave the setting at 3. I've also noticed that if I increase an image's zoom ratio to 100% in my image processing software that this degradation is quite evident, but that if I reduce the zoom ratio to 80% -- and essentially call this the maximum usable magnification -- this takes care of the problem too.

At any rate, I find this very annoying. I feel like I'm being cheated out of a big hunk of the megapixel content that my images are supposed to contain, since they don't hold together well at max resolution.

Grrr. So don't feel so all alone.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I"d show you my first shots with MFL on EOS you'll be proud with yours !!! Laughing
But I've deleted them Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yeah, it takes a bit more practice for sure. here's one I took last weekend.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/genericprofilename/5203655552/

check out 'original' and see the detail in the branches at 100% crop.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Heh. I was immediately thinking that you should check your Picture Style settings and see where your image sharpness is set. If you haven't done this yet, you should. But be aware that you might not like what you get if you crank up this value. Your 60D is a much nicer camera than mine, so perhaps it handles the increased sharpness better than mine does.

My EOS defaults its sharpness setting to 3 out of a possible 7. Once I discovered this setting, I was puzzled why it defaulted to such a low number, and bumped it up to 5 or 6, as I recall. Quite a bit later, I noticed that diagonal lines in my photos had taken on a stair-step quality and I came to realize this problem was because I had the sharpness setting set too high.

Personally I find this very aggravating, and wonder if other EOS cameras are as deficient in this regard as mine is. Mine's a cheapo XS (1000D). When I use Canon's DPP to adjust my raw images, I've noticed that I can bump up the sharpness somewhat in the software -- maybe to 5 or 6 -- before the stair steps become very noticeable, but if I don't want to see any trace of them, I have to leave the setting at 3. I've also noticed that if I increase an image's zoom ratio to 100% in my image processing software that this degradation is quite evident, but that if I reduce the zoom ratio to 80% -- and essentially call this the maximum usable magnification -- this takes care of the problem too.

At any rate, I find this very annoying. I feel like I'm being cheated out of a big hunk of the megapixel content that my images are supposed to contain, since they don't hold together well at max resolution.

Grrr. So don't feel so all alone.


Yeah, I have all my settings set up correctly. But you know, it's an SLR, not a point and shoot Smile of course you would need to setup some things before you get good pictures. It took awhile to learn how to get good images with my first one, but once you know, it's great Smile
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