Nikon F with 1st version Photomic Finder

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Okay, I've already mentioned this camera in a couple other threads here, but I'm still kinda stoked about getting a new camera for my collection, and one that I've been wanting for years. I've owned a couple of these early Fs before. The first one I bought from a pawn shop back when I was a total noob at photography, proudly showed it to a friend who was a Nikon shooter, and she instantly pointed out several problems it had, and told me to take it back. So I did. Reluctantly.

The second one I owned when I was a camera dealer, so it was inventory. But I still really got off on it. It was in like-new condition and everything worked. I would mount it to a mini tripod on my table at the shows and attach a period lens and a period flash attachment to it -- you know the one that opens up like a Chinese fan and takes flash bulbs? It attracted a lot of attention, but a lot of it was rather derogatory. A surprising number of people didn't understand why anybody would be interested in such ancient obsolete technology. This was probably 1990 or so, and most folks had not begun to appreciate the innate quality of SLRs built from the late 1950s through to the mid 1980s or so. But I did, and it attracted enough of the right kind of attention from folks who liked the early mechanical gear as much as I did where it got sold. Oh well.

So this one is my third, and while it's not quite as clean as my second, I'm not complaining. This camera closed at $81 on eBay with no last-second activity. I couldn't believe there wasn't any sniping, especially since there have been other recent examples on eBay ranging from $300 to $1000 asking prices. Admittedly some of them had low serial numbers and other features that confirmed how early they were. Me, I don't really know about any of that stuff other than the serial number, and mine's pretty high for a camera sporting that finder: 6486xxx.

Still, for $81, I'm a happy guy.

The meter works. I figured out how to use a piece of household wiring coiled up with a 675 1.4v hearing aid battery to get it to work. This camera's battery chamber is more awkward than most. It picks up the positive connection from the sides of the chamber instead of the cap, which is the way Canon does it.

I tried the meter out briefly, just aiming at some stuff in my den, and compared its reading with my Gossen Luna Pro SBC. Amazingly, it's agreeing with the Luna Pro to within maybe 1/2 to 1/3 of a stop. Geez.
I gotta take it outside and give the meter a better workout.

The inside of the camera is extremely clean. I'd say spotless, but you know how camera flashes are. They pick up microscopic pieces of stuff and blow it totally out of proportion. It really is clean inside. I promise.

Even the bottom shows almost no use. This camera didn't come with a never-ready case -- or a lens for that matter -- but I'll wager it spent most of its life in a case, sitting quietly on someone's shelf for most of its life.

So, I'm gonna go run a roll of film through it. See if I have any B&W laying around that I can develop myself.

For the above photos, I decided to mount as close to a period lens as I could get. I have three pre-AI Nikkors: a 55mm f/3.5 Micro, a 35mm f/2, and a 105mm f/2.5. The 105mm is a rather late pre-AI lens with an all black barrel, and the 35mm is a bit earlier. It has a black nose. The 55mm f/3.5, even though its s/n dates it to about 1965, will just have to do. Until I get a 5cm f/1.4 or something. Or with the camera's late s/n, I could probably get by with a 50mm f/1.4, chrome with a black metal barrel. Eh?

Do I plan to use it? You bet I do. I even plan to use that camera's meter just to see how accurate of a job it does. Back in the day, you know, pros were depending on its accuracy for their money shots.

mmelvis · Expire: 2015-05-09

Glad to see you got the camera you have been looking for, a fine camera it is to.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Thanks, mmelvis.

Well, I took the camera outside into the mid-afternoon light with my 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor mounted and brought my Luna Pro along. No film loaded yet. This was strictly just a meter test.

I discovered something that has to do with the meter that's gonna need some adjustment or repair or whatever. If you're familiar with Fs that have finders that predate the Photomic FTN, then you know they have this quirky method of calibrating meter accuracy. The "ASA" dial is located directly atop the shutter speed dial and is adjusted according to the maximum aperture of the lens that's mounted. Which means that if you change lenses with different maximum apertures, you have to readjust the ASA dial. This camera's dial is not particularly loose, but at certain points of the shutter speed dial's rotation, it wants to turn when it shouldn't. The result is, the ASA (or ISO nowadays) can end up being WAY off just from rotating the dial a few shutter speed settings. So as I was trying out the camera, I was having to keep a close eye on the ASA dial and frequently readjust it.

Once I found out about this issue, I metered several scenes at various apertures and shutter speeds and compared the readings with my Luna Pro. I was honestly quite surprised that it agreed as closely with the hand-held meter as it did. I mean, here we have over 50-year-old metering technology that isn't even TTL, and the camera's meter was nailing the exposure! Well, to within 1/3 or less of an f/stop, it was. Now, obviously this is strictly an averaging meter -- no partial metering or centerweighted or anything like that -- unless you use the angle of acceptance restrictor, that is. I suspect the AAR is intended for long focal length lenses, but it seems it could be used for partial metering as well.

So anyway, I think that, as I play more and more with this camera I'll have more and more fun with the results.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Yesterday I took the camera out and ran a roll of b&w through it. Most of the images were correctly exposed. There were about four of five that were way under exposed and that was probably when the ASA dial got moved and I didn't notice it. I'm gonna have to fix that.

I'd show you some images, but something really weird happened to the film. I think I got it wound on the reel wrong so that the developer didn't get full contact with all the film. Weird streaks with feathred edges, the likes of which I've never seen before. And the film, when it came out of the reel, coiled up like a snake. Even after drying and suspending it with weights, it still coils up like a spring. I've never run into this before.

When I was winding the film onto the reel it wasn't winding on as smoothly as it usually does, and I was using one of those developer tanks that has the spinner. I've had problems with using a spinner tank giving streaky exposure problems with 120 but never before with 35mm.

This is some very old Kodak Plus-X Pan I have that I'm slowly working through. I still have about ten rolls left. It works fine -- about the only things I've noticed about it is it has a tendency to "cup" and I've added about 1/2 minute to the development times. Other than that, it's worked well.

Anyway, today I'm gonna shoot another roll of this old Plus-X and develop it in my big Paterson tank. I'll post picks later.

fish4570 · Expire: 2012-03-21

too cool for skool, touch. i expect to have a sound f2a in my paws in a week or so.

martinsmith99 · Expire: 2013-11-18

Nice looking camera. I'm put off of Nikons because of their price.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey Paul, I look forward to seeing pics of your F2a. Wish I never would have sold mine.

Hey Martin, I know what you're talking about, but you can still find good deals on old Nikons. I have an FE that I bought off shopgoodwill.com with a 50mm f/1.8 for $55. As I mentioned before, I bought this classic old F for $81. I plan to buy an F4 one day soon. Dunno why really, I guess just in case I ever wind up with an AF Nikkor, and they can be found on eBay pretty consistently in the $300 range, which really is a good buy. I have noticed that F2s aren't as cheap as they once were, and I suppose this is to be expected as folks are slowly beginning to wake up to the simply fact that it was probably the finest SLR that Nikon ever made. I have two, though, and that's enough for me. I wouldn't mind getting a DP-11 (F2A) finder for one of 'em though. Dang things cost almost as much as the camera does, though.

With respect to Nikon MF lenses, though, I'm inclined to agree. It's not so easy anymore finding affordable Nikon glass. To many DSLR shooters have found out about how well the Nikkors work on their cameras.

Oh, back on topic, just thought I'd mention that I got out yesterday and put anoter roll of film through the old F. The images are interesting. I'll post some in a bit.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Okay, I've finally got some images to show. All of them were recorded on some way-expired, but kept in the freezer, Plus-X Pan b&w film. The film was develope in D-76, and I added 1/2 minute to the developing time, which seems to work better with this expired film. You'll note that some of the images look grainier than others. This is because of processing. The first image had only a touch of sharpening added to it, which didn't affect its grain, so it's nice and smooth. The two images of my daughter, I sharpened using a modest amount of USM, which brought out quite a bit of grain. So I ran them through Noise Ninja to knock the grain down. It helped a lot, but they're still grainier than the first and fourth image. Speaking of the fourth one, it just had some histogram adjustment in Epson scan before scanning and then a bit of curvs adjustment afteward. No sharpening. So it's grain is pretty good. And the last one, I had to do a bit more intense histogram adustment in pre-processing and a bit more curves adjustment afterward. Curves doesn't seem to add to the grain, but some of Epson Scan's pre-processing tools definitely do.

The roof rack on our Volvo V90. An experiment in depth of field with the AI-s 50mm. It was actually stopped down some, just one click I believe.

My daughter, Alex, holding Puck, her pet chicken.

She's explaining to our dog Rico that Puck is not food. He doesn't believe her. I think. Either he wants to eat the chicken, or play with it. With him, it's hard to tell.

Yours truly, just testing out the self-timer. Heh. Time to trim my beard. And probably my eyebrows, while I'm at it.

A look up at a pecan tree in our backyard.

As I mentioned before, taking pics with this old camera can be a bit of a challenge. The non-TTL meter is just a straight averaging meter, so if there are any bright light sources within the frame, regardless of where they are, it will average those in and adjust exposure accordingly. I say "within the frame" but that's not really the case, it's with the circle of image acceptance. I found out, from using my Luna Pro with it, that the circle of image acceptance is actually quite wide. It was reading the ground immediately in front of me and the trees above, whereas the Luna Pro's angle was much more restricted.

So anyway, those last two images above were way underexposed because of bright light sources within the frame. Fortunately, between Epson Scan's histogram and brightness functions, and PSP's curve's function, I was able to restore the images to where they look more-or-less normal.

So next time I'm going to try out the angle of acceptance restrictor -- that tube hanging off the side of the finder. Inside this tube there is a white disk, so what it does essentially is turn the camera's meter into an incident meter, but with a very narrow acceptance angle. So that should be interesting.

It's kinda fun discovering all the quirks this old gear has that you have to know in order for the images to come out looking halfway decent.

mmelvis · Expire: 2015-05-09

That is a great pecan tree, looks like it has been around for a fey years.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Yep, I'll wager it's the biggest pecan tree in the neighborhood, and possibly the biggest hardwood in the neighborhood.

Schnauzer · Expire: 2012-03-08

Its really interesting to watch your progress with this camera. Its a lot of fun to take old gear and get results that were intended when it was new.

Are you going to get the ASA dial repaired?

Oh, bye the way, I looked through every thing for that link for scanner parts but somehow lost it when I switched to the new computer. Sorry I couldn't find it.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Yeah, I have to get the ASA dial fixed. It's just too finiky dealing with it the way it is now. I'll see if this is something I can do myself because part of the assembly up there is loose, but part of it isn't. I'll probably consult with the folks over at the KY repair forum before I try anything.

I would like to get out today and try out the angle of acceptance restrictor. I suspect its use transforms the meter into the equivalent of a partial meter -- perhaps something equivalent to the 12% meter found in the old Canons. Now, if that's the case, then I'll probably never take that attachment loose from the finder again. Cool

kryss · Expire: 2017-09-18

Hi Michael,have you tried Nik software Silver effects pro2 for your B/W editing?,I have the complete suite for Photoshop And wonder how I ever managed before using Nik software, saves hours in editing.Regards chris.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Hey Kryss,

No I've never used it. Never even heard of it. Me, I have Photoshop, but it doesn't get used as much as an older copy of Paint Shop Pro I have. I'm just more used to the PSP and can usually get pretty much what I'm after out of it. When I can't, I'll fire up the PS, but often it doesn't any better of a job.

Yesterday, I thought I was gonna try out the angle of acceptance restrictor on this camera, but come to find out that the white disk inside reduces the exposure measurement by four stops. Well, that ain't gonna fly. I tried to see if the section holding the disk unscrews from the rest of it, but it doesn't look like it does. So now I'm wondering just what in the hell that thing is good for. I need to see if I can google up some info on it, maybe.

kryss · Expire: 2017-09-18

Hi Michael, can't help you with NikonF but you should go to niksoftware.com and when on home page select"learn" they have free daily 1 hour webinars on each product as well as archived videos,I think you will be impressed.They are Photographers and know what we want as well as excellent customer service,I highly recommend them but have no connection whatsoever.Regards chris.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Thanks, Kryss. I'll take a closer look, but at the prices they're asking for their software I won't likely be a customer anytime soon.

btm240 · Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 4 Location: Washington DC

Hey Michael,
the round diffusor does indeed unscrew from the aoa tube.

It is actually for an incident reading.
You use it by itself screwed over the round window of the meter.

Maybe yours is just tight from years of storage.

http://www.cameraquest.com/nfinder.htm

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I probably should have updated this thread. I found the forums for the Nikon Historical Society and posted a question over there. I received a pretty prompt answer from a fellow who told me pretty much the same thing.

I suspected that the diffuser unscrewed, but I wanted a definitive answer before I go and chuck it up in my vice and use padded pliers on it to unscrew it. Padding or no, it if ain't meant to come apart, the effort can mess things up.

He also told me that the tube alone is used for lenses of 135mm and longer focal lengths. Again, that makes sense, but it seems to me that it would also work well to create a partial meter with lenses of a normal and wider focal lengths.

I've loaded it up with another roll of B&W and I want to get out with it and shoot some more, but I've been really busy with other projects that have kept me from much of anything else lately. Soon, I hope.

womble · Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 987 Location: Hertfordshire

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I've been having quite a bit of fun with this old camera, despite its antiquated meter. The body itself feels very, um . . . tight, is the best way I can describe it. No slop anywhere. Shutter speeds are right on the money. I suspect this camera has seen only light use its entire life.

So I've been running some more of my old Kodak Plus-X Pan (ISO 125) through it, trying the meter out with a few different lenses, mostly just taking pics of stuff around the house. Nothing exceptional, but it does showcase a couple of my lenses pretty well -- a 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor and a Tokina AT-X 100-300mm f/4 SD.

Close-ups with the Micro-Nikkor (my apologies for not spotting the negatives):

Shots with the Tokina 100-300/4, all hand-held @ 300mm f/4

Rico, our dog, keeping cool on a hot day.

A grackle who must have read Aesop's Fables. That bucket is full of water, but must not be full enough to suit him. Slight crop of the original.

A rather tight crop of a squirrel on our large oak tree. The grain makes things pretty obvious it's a tight crop.

I should use this Tokina zoom more. It does a decent job even wide open.

I scanned these images on my Epson 4990. This old Plus-X film is pretty grainy stuff. Because of this, I haven't found much of an improvement, if any, by using my duplicator outfit with my DSLR. The Epson is resolving this film down to the grain level without difficulty. But because of this, enlargements don't work very well, unless you like things really grainy. But, hey, that's all part of the fun of using film.

btm240 · Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 4 Location: Washington DC

Lookin' good Michael,
shows the potential of the 55 micro.
That's my next score but tryind to decide which version I want.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I owned the 55/2.8 AI years ago, and the one I currently own is an old pre-AI 55/3.5. I remember the /2.8 as being a very good lens, but it's been a looong time. I've got a lot more recent evidence on the /3.5 and all I can say is it's a very sharp lens. It and my Tamron 90mm macro tie for being the sharpest lenses in my collection.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

I just hopped on my bike for a quick trip to the market and saw that same grackle with something in its beak. Gee, it's not gonna give up, is it, I thought. Then I saw it dunk that something in the water and gulp it down.

Doh! (We need a "Doh!" icon here) Shocked

<- closest I can come up with.

It then dawned on me that the grackle was taking chunks of Rico's food and dunking it in the water before swallowing it. Hah! Clever bird.

(Rico's food is in a bowl right next to the water, but behind the bucket where you can't see it.)

Dang it! So much for my Aesop's fable notion.

btm240 · Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 4 Location: Washington DC

What I've gleaned from the net is the 2.8 (Ais) is better for an all "arounder",

portrait distances are sharper than previous versions but I'm unsure of the bokeh

The 3.5'sare biting at macro distances and much cheaper.

I will go for a P or PC once I decide how I like the SC version of the 50 mm compared to ths non multi coated version.

One reputable source has told me he didn't like the pre ai era coatings for color work although this goes against all logic.

cooltouch · Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 9096 Location: Houston, Texas

Well, you've done a lot more homework on this than I have. I certainly haven't noticed any objectionable color effects when using my pre-AI Nikkors.