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madamasu
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 597
Location: Frankfurt/Main Germany
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 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: Nikkor 20mm/2.8 - Nikkor 24mm/2.8 |
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madamasu wrote:
Today the weather is beautiful and so I went back to my favourite grafitti-covered wall to compare the two lenses noted above.
Now my 20mm Nikkor actually is an AF-lense, but as it is supposed to be identical to the 20mm/2.8 AIS MF-lense, I think one can get an idea of its quality or problems. I focussed manually, of course.
My 24mm lense is the Nikkor-N.C Auto version, which somebody filed down at home to convert it to AI. It is not a clean job, but it works perfectly well, so who cares. Besides I got it for 50€ over German eBay.
The pictures I took with the 20mm never really were very sharp, and so I took 3 pictures with AF and 3 with MF to make sure that it is not my eyes who made me focus badly. I show one of the pictures I focused manually.
All pictures taken @f8, ISO 320, all photos unsharpened.
Here are the first two, the 20mm above, the 24mm below:
_________________
Zorki 4
Jupiter 8, 9, 11, 12 & triple finder
Nikon D200, D700
Nikkors: 15/3.5 AI; N.C 24mm/2.8 (AIed);
N 35mm/1.4 (AIed); 45mm/2.8P; 50mm/1.2 AIS; Micro 55mm/2.8 AIS; Noct 58mm/1.2 AIS;85mm/1.8 (K-lense AIed); 105mm/2.5 AIS; 135mm/3.5 (K-lense AIed)
Voigtlaender Ultron 40mm/2; CZJ Flektogon 20mm/4 (AIed); Helios-81M; MIR-20N; Volna-3; Flektogon 50/4;Flektogon 65/2.8; Biometar 80/2.8; Biometar 120/2.8; Sonnar 180/2.8; Sonnar 300/4
Kiron 70-210/4.5 Makro
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/madamasu
Last edited by madamasu on Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:37 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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madamasu
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 597
Location: Frankfurt/Main Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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madamasu wrote:
Here are the two crops of both pictures:
20mm/2.8
24mm/2.8
_________________
Zorki 4
Jupiter 8, 9, 11, 12 & triple finder
Nikon D200, D700
Nikkors: 15/3.5 AI; N.C 24mm/2.8 (AIed);
N 35mm/1.4 (AIed); 45mm/2.8P; 50mm/1.2 AIS; Micro 55mm/2.8 AIS; Noct 58mm/1.2 AIS;85mm/1.8 (K-lense AIed); 105mm/2.5 AIS; 135mm/3.5 (K-lense AIed)
Voigtlaender Ultron 40mm/2; CZJ Flektogon 20mm/4 (AIed); Helios-81M; MIR-20N; Volna-3; Flektogon 50/4;Flektogon 65/2.8; Biometar 80/2.8; Biometar 120/2.8; Sonnar 180/2.8; Sonnar 300/4
Kiron 70-210/4.5 Makro
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/madamasu |
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madamasu
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 597
Location: Frankfurt/Main Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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madamasu wrote:
Here are two more of the wall:
_________________
Zorki 4
Jupiter 8, 9, 11, 12 & triple finder
Nikon D200, D700
Nikkors: 15/3.5 AI; N.C 24mm/2.8 (AIed);
N 35mm/1.4 (AIed); 45mm/2.8P; 50mm/1.2 AIS; Micro 55mm/2.8 AIS; Noct 58mm/1.2 AIS;85mm/1.8 (K-lense AIed); 105mm/2.5 AIS; 135mm/3.5 (K-lense AIed)
Voigtlaender Ultron 40mm/2; CZJ Flektogon 20mm/4 (AIed); Helios-81M; MIR-20N; Volna-3; Flektogon 50/4;Flektogon 65/2.8; Biometar 80/2.8; Biometar 120/2.8; Sonnar 180/2.8; Sonnar 300/4
Kiron 70-210/4.5 Makro
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/madamasu |
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madamasu
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 597
Location: Frankfurt/Main Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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madamasu wrote:
And the last two:
To my eyes the 24mm is superior to the 20mm, and also the 15mm Nikkor is better than the 20mm. So in case Attila hasn't yet made up his mind, which Nikon wide-angle to buy, I would definitely second the others in this thread and would advise him to go for the 24mm N or NC AI'd, or the 24mm AIS.
_________________
Zorki 4
Jupiter 8, 9, 11, 12 & triple finder
Nikon D200, D700
Nikkors: 15/3.5 AI; N.C 24mm/2.8 (AIed);
N 35mm/1.4 (AIed); 45mm/2.8P; 50mm/1.2 AIS; Micro 55mm/2.8 AIS; Noct 58mm/1.2 AIS;85mm/1.8 (K-lense AIed); 105mm/2.5 AIS; 135mm/3.5 (K-lense AIed)
Voigtlaender Ultron 40mm/2; CZJ Flektogon 20mm/4 (AIed); Helios-81M; MIR-20N; Volna-3; Flektogon 50/4;Flektogon 65/2.8; Biometar 80/2.8; Biometar 120/2.8; Sonnar 180/2.8; Sonnar 300/4
Kiron 70-210/4.5 Makro
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/madamasu |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 8551
Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
I am surprised at how soft your 20/2.8 is. Perhaps a visit to nikon might help it? Nevertheless the 24 is usually sharper, but not by this much
patrickh
_________________
DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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zewrak
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 1212
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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zewrak wrote:
Yah. Id say there is something wrong with the 20mm or it plainly is no good. I have no idea about nikons performance in general on the 20mm. But if I bought a lense Id expect more.
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My homepage, all manual shots |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10472
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
nice test madamasu! the 24 is up his reputation of best 24mm;
the 20 look fine too, just need little more sharpening
about the focusing with the 20, why not use the D700 with liveview |
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cpn
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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cpn wrote:
Thank you very much for the test - but I have to confess that the 20mm does not make me very jealous, shot at f8!
Did you use a crop-cam or your D700 for these?
I will try to shoot some pics with my 20/4 these days to compare for Attila, alas, I'm afraid I only have a D40 at hand.
_________________
Nikon D40 + 20/4 Ai - 24/2.8 N - 28/2.8 Ais - 35/2 Ai - 50/1.4 Ais - 50/1.8 Ais - 50/1.8 E - 50/2 Ai - 55/3.5 P.C - 105/2.5 Ais - 135/2.8 Q.C - 180/2.8 Ais - 50-300/4.5 Ai |
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madamasu
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 597
Location: Frankfurt/Main Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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madamasu wrote:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I took these pictures with the D700. Thanks for reminding me.
Good idea , Poilu. I simply forgot about the live-view modus and shot a few with AF, but they weren't any better.
All are handheld, since I didn't feel like running around with a tripod.
By the way-here is what Mr. Roslett has to say about the 20mm 2.8 AF:
| Quote: |
| The successor to the MF 20/2.8 is often stated to have identical optics, but I'm not entirely convinced that this is true and think Nikon tweaked the design so make the lens focus better in AF. Direct comparison with the MF lens shows that the AF has more curvature of field, at least in the close range where this feature counts, and slightly more CA. Image sharpness isn't entirely up to that of the MF brother at any aperture, but the contrast is slightly higher. Probably Nikon tweaked the coating as well. |
So maybe the MF-version is better after all.
_________________
Zorki 4
Jupiter 8, 9, 11, 12 & triple finder
Nikon D200, D700
Nikkors: 15/3.5 AI; N.C 24mm/2.8 (AIed);
N 35mm/1.4 (AIed); 45mm/2.8P; 50mm/1.2 AIS; Micro 55mm/2.8 AIS; Noct 58mm/1.2 AIS;85mm/1.8 (K-lense AIed); 105mm/2.5 AIS; 135mm/3.5 (K-lense AIed)
Voigtlaender Ultron 40mm/2; CZJ Flektogon 20mm/4 (AIed); Helios-81M; MIR-20N; Volna-3; Flektogon 50/4;Flektogon 65/2.8; Biometar 80/2.8; Biometar 120/2.8; Sonnar 180/2.8; Sonnar 300/4
Kiron 70-210/4.5 Makro
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/madamasu |
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1767
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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ChrisLilley wrote:
I'm surprised by the general softness, poor contrast, and overall poor showing on the AF 20mm f/2.8. I would expect my 20mm f/4 to give much better results (but have only used it on a crop camera).
The 24mm does fairly well here.
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ai'ed, AiS
Camera: Nikon D90, D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, AI'ed | N.K. Nikkor-N 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor-N.C 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | ЛЗОС (LZOS) Юпитер-9 (Jupiter-9) 85mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL | Nikkor-P 105mm f/2.5 pre-Ai, Ai'ed | Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 | Schneider Kreuznach Componon 105mm f/5.6 | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED AiS | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list) |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57865
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Many thanks!! I had already 24mm f2.8 AIS I prefer over any other what I had in the past (Yashica ML 24mm, Olympus OM 24mm f2, Nikkor 24mm f2 , Vivitar, Kiron etc) I never had 20mm f2.8 and 20mm f4 if you don't mind I would ask you guys more samples like these.
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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ChrisLilley
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1767
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: Samples from Nikkor 20mm f/4, for comparison |
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ChrisLilley wrote:
Mainly showing off resistance to flare.
Nikon D40, Nikkor 20mm f/4 non-AI @ ISO 200, 1/250s, around f8
Nikon D40, Nikkor 20mm f/4 @ ISO 200, f/11, 1/80s.
Nikon D90, Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, factory AI kit @ ISO 800, f/8, 1/125s
_________________
Camera (ˈkæ mə rə), n. Device for taking pictures in bright light
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t. Key: Ai-P, Ai, Ai'ed, AiS
Camera: Nikon D90, D40, DK-21M eyepiece, ML-3 remote MF lenses: Nikkor 20mm f/4 K, AI'ed | N.K. Nikkor-N 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor-N.C 24mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AiS late model | Арсенал (Arsenal) Мир-24Н (Mir-24N) 35mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer Ultron SL II 40mm f/2.0 | Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 AiS | Zoom-Nikkor 80-200 f/4.5 Ai | ЛЗОС (LZOS) Юпитер-9 (Jupiter-9) 85mm f/2 | Cosina Voigtländer APO-Lanthar 90mm f/3.5 SL | Nikkor-P 105mm f/2.5 pre-Ai, Ai'ed | Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/4 | Schneider Kreuznach Componon 105mm f/5.6 | Nikkor 135mm f/2.8, Ai'ed 1976 model | Nikkor 180mm f/2.8 ED AiS | Арсенал (Arsenal) ТЕЛЕАР-Н (Telear-n) 200mm f/3.5 | Nikkor 300 mm f/4.5 Ai (full equipment list) |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 29545
Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
I personally prefer to judge from normal photos like those of Chris.
This lens looks very fine to me. Look in the last photo, distortion is very well corrected. Very well handling the flare.
_________________
Orio, Administrator
T*
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Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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madamasu
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 597
Location: Frankfurt/Main Germany
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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madamasu wrote:
Two more with the 24mm, taken in early February at a lake iced over against the afternoon winter-sun looking through the window.Both with the D700.
The first one at ISO 1600 @f2.8, lightly photo-shopped, or else the face would be completely dark:
The second at ISO 1250, also @f2.8
_________________
Zorki 4
Jupiter 8, 9, 11, 12 & triple finder
Nikon D200, D700
Nikkors: 15/3.5 AI; N.C 24mm/2.8 (AIed);
N 35mm/1.4 (AIed); 45mm/2.8P; 50mm/1.2 AIS; Micro 55mm/2.8 AIS; Noct 58mm/1.2 AIS;85mm/1.8 (K-lense AIed); 105mm/2.5 AIS; 135mm/3.5 (K-lense AIed)
Voigtlaender Ultron 40mm/2; CZJ Flektogon 20mm/4 (AIed); Helios-81M; MIR-20N; Volna-3; Flektogon 50/4;Flektogon 65/2.8; Biometar 80/2.8; Biometar 120/2.8; Sonnar 180/2.8; Sonnar 300/4
Kiron 70-210/4.5 Makro
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/madamasu |
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