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MF Lenses and Nude Photography - Challenge
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:09 am    Post subject: MF Lenses and Nude Photography - Challenge Reply with quote
Alright,

I got a question for you all. Many of you have experiences with multiple cameras and lenses from various manufacturers. So, if I may pull on your vast experiences to help me with this little challenge.

Let's say a studio approached you and said:

Folks, we would like to acquire a system best suited for shooting the best nudes photos possible. The only limit is that we will be using manual lenses. It doesn't matter if it is DSLR, Rangefinder, or medium or lage format. It doesn't matter if it is Nikon or Kiev. We just want the best for this type of photography.

If budget is no limit, what camera model and specific MF lenses would you recommend to this studio?

If budget is a concern, what camera model and specific MF lenses would you recommend to this studio?


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Defenitely a Zeiss for its pop !


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you do a google search with the site:mflenses.com search term you can restrict the results to this site, where you can find samples with full technical information.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Amflenses.com+nude

There are several nice examples from 85mm Planars and various 50mm lenses.

Quickly browsing those search results I'd say the subject and lighting trumps the glass, ultimate sharpness is probably not the goal.

And by subject I don't just mean a beautiful girl, the pose/attitude must work.

Also postprocessing is hugely important.

Don't know if that was helpful, sorry.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
For nudes, a DSLR is highly recommended, because composing through the viewfinder is crucial.
As far as lenses are concerned, I recommend a 50mm, a 85mm, a 135mm, a 35mm. All of them as fast as possible.
If budget allows, I would add a 180mm too. It might seem excessive, but for some genres, it isn't.
As for brand, is not really important, as long as the lens is good. I will not make a list of brands, everybody knows them.
Just avoid "dogs" - differences between lenses of best brands is minimal.
Aesthetical differences are more important than technical differences. A lens my Meyer gives a totally different image style
than a lens by Zeiss or Leica. The choice depends on your personal preference.
The Nikon lenses you list in your profiles are a good starting point. Try to get faster versions if possible, i.e. a 1.4/50 instead
of 1.8/50, a 1.4/85 instead of 2.5/105, and so on. It's not that you will always shoot them wide open (in fact, you rarely will),
but wide aperture is vital for crucial focusing.
Do not underestimate lighting. People tends to invest a lot in lenses and little in lighting. But good lighting is vital
in a studio.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, since money is no object and the absolute best is what is sought, I'd go with a 200 megapixel, $45k Hasselblad H4D-200MS. I don't happen to know if this modern Hassy will take the old MF Zeiss lenses, but surely somebody will be making an adapter soon for it, so I can use the old Zeiss T* lenses with it.

And no, I didn't choose the Hassy because it is obscenely expensive. I chose it because it is a 200 megapixel camera. It'll be quite some time before that is obsolesced.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don´t know what would probably be the best - but my normal setup works quite good for nude photography:
Canon EOS 5D
Minolta Rokkor 58mm f/1.2
Zeiss Contax 85mm f/1.2 (sometimes I used the Canon FD 85/1.2L)

I think most images with small DOF are made with this setup:
Nude-Photography

My older images with larger DOF are most made with EOS 350D and Canon EF 50/1.4 or EF 28-135 IS

Even a bit better would probably be a Nikon DSLR system with automated iris even with the older manual lenses - could be helpful for flash photography.

Last edited by ZoneV on Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is this thread real?

If I were to shoot nudes I would use whatever I happened to have. I'm not sure nude models care if you use Zeiss, Canon, Zenit or whatever. For modelling photography, I've used all manner of cameras & lenses but I couldn't say one is better than another, just different depending on the look I was going for.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Limitless budget is unrealistic, imho. Think NASA or ESA -- surely they have some nice sensors. I know where to get a Large Format sensor, for a cool million or so... Zeiss might jump at designing lenses for a large enough sum.

Back to Earth and reality, I second the budgeted suggestions.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
What will be the end of your nude pics? Great copies on paper, that is 40 x 50 cm or so, and expose them? Will that pics seen direct from the monitor?

Perhaps the finality of the pics should be an important circumstance to know before chose the equipment.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've seen Zeiss mentioned multiple times. Is the consensus then just get Zeiss and you are set Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
Is this thread real?

If I were to shoot nudes I would use whatever I happened to have. I'm not sure nude models care if you use Zeiss, Canon, Zenit or whatever. For modelling photography, I've used all manner of cameras & lenses but I couldn't say one is better than another, just different depending on the look I was going for.


+10


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Attila wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
Is this thread real?

If I were to shoot nudes I would use whatever I happened to have. I'm not sure nude models care if you use Zeiss, Canon, Zenit or whatever. For modelling photography, I've used all manner of cameras & lenses but I couldn't say one is better than another, just different depending on the look I was going for.


+10


Which is precisely why I carried things to an almost absurd extreme with my comments on a $45,000 Hassy. Hell, the last time I did any boudoir photography, I used my Bronica ETRSi and 75mm lens, shooting Tri-X Professional film. It worked plenty great.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Attila wrote:
martinsmith99 wrote:
Is this thread real?

If I were to shoot nudes I would use whatever I happened to have. I'm not sure nude models care if you use Zeiss, Canon, Zenit or whatever. For modelling photography, I've used all manner of cameras & lenses but I couldn't say one is better than another, just different depending on the look I was going for.


+10


Which is precisely why I carried things to an almost absurd extreme with my comments on a $45,000 Hassy. Hell, the last time I did any boudoir photography, I used my Bronica ETRSi and 75mm lens, shooting Tri-X Professional film. It worked plenty great.


I am aware you can shoot nudes with ANY lens. My question was realy which better lens best fit for skin capture of nude photography. I've seen very nice samples of Zeiss based on a search link for the MF forum here. Thank you previous poster.

The challenge with differences in lenses and how they produce different looks is that unless you buy almost ALL lenses and try them for yourself, it is difficult to know. When researching lenses I find reviews talk about sharpnss and test charts with numbers on resolution and contrast. I made my decision based off these and what little I can find online. There is no rental shop where I live in the Philippines. Lens selection in stores is limited. I have to rely on online reviews and thus I probably bought lenses in retrospect I wouldn't have, just so I can put them on the camera and test them. All of my lenses are Nikon because it is what I own. It didn't make sense on a practical level to buy multiple camera brands with multiple lenses. I was under the impression you picked on system and you invested in (nikon vs canon).

I love this forum, because I get to chat with like minded MF lens lovers. However, honestly, I am a bit overwhelmed with so many lens names mentioned from so many different camera mounts. I feel suddenly like I am exposed to the UN with so many languages spoken and I only know my own language (Nikon). I can't see how I can buy them all to test. Do I buy Zeiss lenses? Do I get Jupiter? Do I get Konica hex and get a mount adapter? etc...

I guess that is really what I am asking myself. Are my needs met investing fully in a Nikon system for crop and 35mm or should I branch out.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
cooltouch wrote:
Well, since money is no object and the absolute best is what is sought, I'd go with a 200 megapixel, $45k Hasselblad H4D-200MS. I don't happen to know if this modern Hassy will take the old MF Zeiss lenses, but surely somebody will be making an adapter soon for it, so I can use the old Zeiss T* lenses with it.

And no, I didn't choose the Hassy because it is obscenely expensive. I chose it because it is a 200 megapixel camera. It'll be quite some time before that is obsolesced.


If I win the lottery, I'll buy two and send you one, you have my word Smile
I was under impression that if you take a film and scan it at high DPI the resulting image is near 100megapixl.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
DR.JUAN wrote:
What will be the end of your nude pics? Great copies on paper, that is 40 x 50 cm or so, and expose them? Will that pics seen direct from the monitor?

Perhaps the finality of the pics should be an important circumstance to know before chose the equipment.


Well my number 1 model has been my wife and I did multiple shot and style variations with her. She has like 40 pictures of herself framed on the wall in the bedroom Smile I've done a number of models since, but she won't allow those up Wink


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:
I would recommend what I want to sell or for what I would get the most commission to people with no budget limit and no clue what they want. Cool

If the question would have been asked by a friend whith an artistic vision, I would try to find out more about what he wants to achieve as an result. Question

To all others my answer is that helmuth newton used a rolleiflex so you should go for one and get the complete set of lenses. Very Happy


The OLD Rolleiflex?? Are you sure it wasn't just a case of he grew up with the camera, so he used what is comfortable to him?


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Orio wrote:
For nudes, a DSLR is highly recommended, because composing through the viewfinder is crucial.
As far as lenses are concerned, I recommend a 50mm, a 85mm, a 135mm, a 35mm. All of them as fast as possible.
If budget allows, I would add a 180mm too. It might seem excessive, but for some genres, it isn't.
As for brand, is not really important, as long as the lens is good. I will not make a list of brands, everybody knows them.
Just avoid "dogs" - differences between lenses of best brands is minimal.
Aesthetical differences are more important than technical differences. A lens my Meyer gives a totally different image style
than a lens by Zeiss or Leica. The choice depends on your personal preference.
The Nikon lenses you list in your profiles are a good starting point. Try to get faster versions if possible, i.e. a 1.4/50 instead
of 1.8/50, a 1.4/85 instead of 2.5/105, and so on. It's not that you will always shoot them wide open (in fact, you rarely will),
but wide aperture is vital for crucial focusing.
Do not underestimate lighting. People tends to invest a lot in lenses and little in lighting. But good lighting is vital
in a studio.


I find it very difficult to compose through a DSLR view finder. It is too dark! Even manual focus is a crap shoot as much as I love doing it. I wish there was a way to get it to be bright and clear.

35, 50, 85, 135, and 180 are all on my list of must have.

If you shoot a 50 1.4 at 1.8 wouldn't it be the same as shooting with a standard 50 1.8 as far as focusing?

I am still unclear on how is Zeiss, Leica, or Meyer are different aesthetically beside quality of optic construction and sharpness of the photo.

I agree 100% on lighting.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
maldaye wrote:


If you shoot a 50 1.4 at 1.8 wouldn't it be the same as shooting with a standard 50 1.8 as far as focusing?
_

In my experience when shoot a 1,4 at f/ 1,8 to f/4, is better than the 1,8 lens shoot at the same apertures. At f/5,6 both should be the same IQ. And the 1,8 shoot at f/8 should be better or similar than the 1,4 lens shoot at the same aperture.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
maldaye wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
Well, since money is no object and the absolute best is what is sought, I'd go with a 200 megapixel, $45k Hasselblad H4D-200MS. I don't happen to know if this modern Hassy will take the old MF Zeiss lenses, but surely somebody will be making an adapter soon for it, so I can use the old Zeiss T* lenses with it.

And no, I didn't choose the Hassy because it is obscenely expensive. I chose it because it is a 200 megapixel camera. It'll be quite some time before that is obsolesced.


If I win the lottery, I'll buy two and send you one, you have my word Smile
I was under impression that if you take a film and scan it at high DPI the resulting image is near 100megapixl.


I have crunched the numbers on this before. You have to make a few assumptions. My assumption was that the film being used would be a very fine grained film, capable of resolving 100 line pairs per millimeter. Films with this resolving power exist -- or at least they used to. The calculation works like this:

We can assume safely that 1 line pair is the equivalent of 2 pixels. So for a 24mm x 36mm image you get (24mm x 100lppmm x2 pixels per pair) x (36mm x 100lppmm x 2 pixels per pair) = 34.56 megapixels. So that's just about the best resolution one can expect with a very fine grained film in 35mm format. For medium format, we just substitute the two dimension numbers. For Hasselblad, the actual image size is 56mm x 56mm. So, if we plug these dimensions into the above formula, we get 125.44 megapixels.

I'll take you up on your lottery winnings offer, too!


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
maldaye wrote:

I find it very difficult to compose through a DSLR view finder. It is too dark! Even manual focus is a crap shoot as much as I love doing it. I wish there was a way to get it to be bright and clear.


I take it the DSLR you're using doesn't have Live View? One of the nice things about my EOS's Live View routine is that it boosts the light value in the viewfinder even for darker subjects, such that they are legible. Then, using LV's 10x magnification, I can focus critically.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
maldaye wrote:

I find it very difficult to compose through a DSLR view finder. It is too dark!


Use faster lenses like I suggested. It will change! and install a good focusing screen.
And use full frame SLR, not APS-C

Quote:
If you shoot a 50 1.4 at 1.8 wouldn't it be the same as shooting with a standard 50 1.8 as far as focusing?


That's half stop difference = 50% more light! It may not matter much for the shutter time, but it will matter a lot
for you looking through the SLR viewfinder!

Quote:
I am still unclear on how is Zeiss, Leica, or Meyer are different aesthetically beside quality of optic construction and sharpness of the photo.


Visit the "Best of Lenses" gallery and look at how the different lenses perform. Eventually you will appreciate the differences.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
to buck the trend and give specific recommendations, i think an NEX and vintage rangefinder lenses would make a great combination. the smaller size of the camera and lens will reduce the intimidation factor. older, faster lenses have smoother, less clinical rendering which is kinder to skin. vintage canon LTM and leica lenses are available fairly cheaply - go for a 50/1.4 and a fast 85 at least.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lessthanzero wrote:
to buck the trend and give specific recommendations, i think an NEX and vintage rangefinder lenses would make a great combination. the smaller size of the camera and lens will reduce the intimidation factor. older, faster lenses have smoother, less clinical rendering which is kinder to skin. vintage canon LTM and leica lenses are available fairly cheaply - go for a 50/1.4 and a fast 85 at least.

I would imagine that a nude model is more intimidated by being nude and will not care what camera/lens you have. Laughing


PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
martinsmith99 wrote:
I would imagine that a nude model is more intimidated by being nude and will not care what camera/lens you have. Laughing


Martin, if I may make an observation: if you look like a Swedish movie star (Omar), probably very little intimidation. The problem I
have, and maybe you too, is it's difficult to keep their eyes open after tranking them with a dart, I'm kidding, but you get my gist. Laughing
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