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Looking for uncoated/single coated flare monster ~50mm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Looking for uncoated/single coated flare monster ~50mm Reply with quote
Hi,

I'm looking for a 50mm lens with no or really bad coating, to get some nice flares this time of year (autumn). I've already got one Helios 44-2 and one 44m, but I want to try out something older.

The goal is to use it on my 5Dmk2. Preferably m42 or Nikon F mount.

Any suggestions?


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Find an old 1930s 35mm folding camera with a good lens - a triplet like a Radionar, Trioplan, Voigtar etc or a tessar like a Tessar, Xenar, Skopar etc. They are uncoated.

Youcan easily remove the lens, lock the shutter in the B or T position and use it.

I would suggest that you will need a 75mm or longer lens however otherwise you will only be able to focus a couple of metres at most on an EOS.

Look for a bad condition 6x6 or 6x9 folder.

Another option is an uncoated enlarger lens, there are plenty of uncoated Dallmeyer Enlarging Anastigmats and similar.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you don't want the bellows thing, many of the early M42 Japanese and German lower end lenses should do you good. Especially if they are sold as having many front element scratches Wink A nice old preset should do.

My Retina IIc had the nicest light bloom with its lens, and that's from the 50s and by no means low end.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meyer Trioplan 50mm, uncoated, EXAKTA mount. Have that, works great...


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a couple of beaten, scratched 50s lying around doing nothing but taking up shelf space. I can test them for flare...


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for uncoated/single coated flare monster ~50mm Reply with quote
ckrook wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking for a 50mm lens with no or really bad coating, to get some nice flares this time of year (autumn). I've already got one Helios 44-2 and one 44m, but I want to try out something older.

The goal is to use it on my 5Dmk2. Preferably m42 or Nikon F mount.

Any suggestions?


I have a couple of Contax/Kiev Sonnars that would need cleaning and in the present state, they flare like crazy. Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a shame that you don't use an APS cam, it let you put on almost any lens.

There are a lot of RF lenses of the 50/60's (30/40?) with some particular rendering, like the color skopar 3,5-2,8/50, or the color lanthar 2,8/50, the Voigtar wide open rendering seems a really impressionism work. And those were only an examples of the beauty touch of the past.

Zeiss, Ikon, Agfa, Isco, Schneider, Kodak, Rodenstock, Schatch, etc. There are a lot of brands with lovely lens with old rendering


PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Or here's another idea. Pick up just any old cheapo 50 that'll mount to your camera, then pick up yourself some very fine polishing compound. Hut Ultra Gloss Plastic Polish is particularly good because it was designed to restore the clear sheen to aircraft windows after they get old and worn from all the high-speed scouring that they have to endure. It is really a great polish. Put some of that stuff on both the inner and outer elements and just lightly scrub with a soft cloth. It may take a while but it'll remove the coatings, plus it will leave the elements nice and shiny. Highly reflective, which is what you want, right? I'm thinking that highly reflective, uncoated elements should produce a LOT of flare.

Just my 0.02


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue May 03, 2016 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The nicest flaring lens I have is the early Super-Tak 28/3.5 with 58mm filter which is on the left.(not 50mm, I know)

http://photo.net/pentax-camera-forum/00Pkaj


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Or you could try taking pretty much any 50 and stick an old uncoated and possibly scratched UV/skylight filter on it. That should maximize any flares. Also, the Biotars (and the older coatings should help some compared to Helios) and Primoplans had nice flare so stick some UV on it and you're good to go.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yashinon-DS 50 f1.4

seriously that thing flares like nothing else.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Helios 44-2 can also flare like when sun is in front of you.
Actually it's not uncoated, but hey it works.

PS
You can remove coatings of every lens with caustic soda solutions (often sold as drain cleaner), hydrofluoric acid (very toxic! I won't recommend that) or simply polish them away with fine diamond lapping pastes or selfmade chromium oxide paste (Cr2O3 is sold as a green pigment in stores for artists or painters, you can also use green oil color with chromium base directly as polishing agent. Another source is green stropping paste for polishing/sharpening straight razors - it can be also used directly).


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ForenSeil wrote:
hydrofluoric acid (very toxic! I won't recommend that)


holy crap man, don't even suggest that shit... fyi, one drop of the stuff is enough to kill you.... it leeches the calcium out of your bones. don't even consider handling the stuff without calcium gluconate gel or intravenous handy.

consider it a non option... and overkill for removing coatings.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
enliten wrote:
ForenSeil wrote:
hydrofluoric acid (very toxic! I won't recommend that)


holy crap man, don't even suggest that shit... fyi, one drop of the stuff is enough to kill you.... it leeches the calcium out of your bones. don't even consider handling the stuff without calcium gluconate gel or intravenous handy.

consider it a non option... and overkill for removing coatings.

Well in some countries it's an ingriedient of glas and chrome cleaners etc, Very Happy


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ckrook, I had the same wish. Thought about old uncoated lenses, but those are either too expensive or to slow and long.
Then I searched methods to remove the coating from cheap lenses.
Cause I don´t like chemistry, I went the polishing way - with some doubts about sharpness afterwards.

But now I am pretty happy. It is relative simple to polish the anti reflection coating away.
I have done this with a Helios 44 on all unglued surfaces, and a cheap zoom lens on the front ~6 lenses.
And with the Helios I made 1:1 comparison images with an unmodified lens, the polished lens still locks very sharp.



Last edited by ZoneV on Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
nice to see some examples here, especially before and after for those who have removed coatings!


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Would be nice ZoneV to see some images taken with both lenses to compare...


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Would be nice ZoneV to see some images taken with both lenses to compare...


All Helios 44 58mm/2.0

Normal coated:



Uncoated:



Normal coated:



And again uncoated:




Uncoated only:



Full resolution images on my website.
Many images show no big difference to the coated lens. Coating removal gets not a extreme everytime flaring lens - but much more flaring than with coating. With no sun on the frontlens, there is not much about flare. It could still be interesting, to use a tilted window-glass in front of the lens to catch the sun.[/url]


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi ZoneV,

Thanks for all the info! Since I've got two helioses I might just go ahead and try.
Is it easy to disassemble and assemble again?

ZoneV wrote:
Ckrook, I had the same wish. Thought about old uncoated lenses, but those are either too expensive or to slow and long.
Then I searched methods to remove the coating from cheap lenses.
Cause I don´t like chemistry, I went the polishing way - with some doubts about sharpness afterwards.

But now I am pretty happy. It is relative simple to polish the anti reflection coating away.
I have done this with a Helios 44 on all unglued surfaces, and a cheap zoom lens on the front ~6 lenses.
And with the Helios I made 1:1 comparison images with an unmodified lens, the polished lens still lokks very sharp.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ckrook wrote:
Hi ZoneV,

Thanks for all the info! Since I've got two helioses I might just go ahead and try.
Is it easy to disassemble and assemble again?...


I would say it is a lens with very simple lens element disassembly and assembly.
You open the front and back retaining ring, and get all lens elements out. But take care to notice lens element place and orientation.

But be carefully in case you use motorized polishing - the lenses can flay out of your hand - and probably get a damage on hard ground, or the machine can hurt you.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Great idea, destroy a working folder (or one that could be repaired, I've never seen one that couldn't) to produce kitsch flare autumn picture number 20000000014251245222.

Yes, I know the OP has the ability and decency to reassamble the lens/folder. Problem is the next hypster who will see that posting and will unpack the scissors to butcher the first folder he'll got in his hands.

Get any zoom from the 80-90s and it has more flare than you need.
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