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Leica R 35-70 f2.8
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Leica R 35-70 f2.8 Reply with quote
Hi guys!

I just strolled around the bay, as I saw this gem! I've never seen one of these for sale and man this is a price of a kind...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Leica-Vario-Elmarit-R-1-2-8-35-70-mm-Asph-ROM-11275-boxed-near-mint-/200875221528?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item2ec518a218#ht_3993wt_1219

But look at this lens body, this must be the biggest and most beautiful 35-70, I've ever seen! It looks even sturdier and more refined than the 28-90 Leica R!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For the money, I'll take my Tokina AT-X 35-70mm / F2.8 over the $7k Leica...Cost me $200 instead.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In 1992, Popular photography's article expresed the similar rendering between the planar 1,7/50 c/y and the 35-70/3,4 zoom to the same mount.

I have no doubts that the leica zoom's rendering is in the A level. Of course.

But for that money, I should purchase an extraordinary prime lens. Or ten Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
According to experts this is one of the best zoom lenses ever made. A milestone, but way too expensive, even for Leica. Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
that is way too much money. maybe this is argument against those calling for lens without compromises in quality and price. even if it was THE best zoom ever made, could it be significantly better than lenses like Olympus OM35-80/2.8 or Angenieux 35-70/2.5-3.3 which are considered one of the best?


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hifisapi wrote:
For the money, I'll take my Tokina AT-X 35-70mm / F2.8 over the $7k Leica...Cost me $200 instead.

+1 or none of them Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
According to experts this is one of the best zoom lenses ever made. A milestone, but way too expensive, even for Leica. Wink


A milestone remains such even in historic hindsight, however I my humble experience the label "best ever made" bears a time stamp. And while that might have been well deserved 30 years ago, many milestones have been overtaken by the best of the latest by a clear margin.

As Leica products are fiercely high quality this specific lens might just be up there. However as long as there is no "shootout" available it might as well just be a milestone.

The asking price seems to be 30-50% above recent auctions, so let's see how long it takes until someone bites.

P.S.: not my type of poison


+1


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr Karbe, chief lens designer at Leica, once wrote (not long ago) that this zoom lens is on par performancewise with the best primes.
(And he has calculated and developed many of those primes, so that means something!)

However, this zoom lens is not considered any longer just as a brilliant piece of glass, it has long become a collectors item which accounts for the called prices.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
Mr Karbe, chief lens designer at Leica, once wrote (not long ago) that this zoom lens is on par performancewise with the best primes.
(And he has calculated and developed many of those primes, so that means something!)

However, this zoom lens is not considered any longer just as a brilliant piece of glass, it has long become a collectors item which accounts for the called prices.

Yeah, but what good is it if you cant even buy a leica R dslr?


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Canon and all mirror less, 4/3 can mount Leica-R glasses. Leica was smart to not make it.

Look Contax similar lens , good as than any prime ~ 300-500 USD. No big deal to make a small zoom range excellent lens, I remember for Tamron SP 35-80 f2.8 which is good as than any third party prime in same focal length.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hifisapi wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Mr Karbe, chief lens designer at Leica, once wrote (not long ago) that this zoom lens is on par performancewise with the best primes.
(And he has calculated and developed many of those primes, so that means something!)

However, this zoom lens is not considered any longer just as a brilliant piece of glass, it has long become a collectors item which accounts for the called prices.

Yeah, but what good is it if you cant even buy a leica R dslr?


If you can afford that lens, you can afford the new "M" (type 240) and use it Leica-exclusively!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LucisPictor wrote:
hifisapi wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Mr Karbe, chief lens designer at Leica, once wrote (not long ago) that this zoom lens is on par performancewise with the best primes.
(And he has calculated and developed many of those primes, so that means something!)

However, this zoom lens is not considered any longer just as a brilliant piece of glass, it has long become a collectors item which accounts for the called prices.

Yeah, but what good is it if you cant even buy a leica R dslr?


If you can afford that lens, you can afford the new "M" (type 240) and use it Leica-exclusively!

using a reflex lens on a rf body is a bad compromise...


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hifisapi wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
hifisapi wrote:
LucisPictor wrote:
Mr Karbe, chief lens designer at Leica, once wrote (not long ago) that this zoom lens is on par performancewise with the best primes.
(And he has calculated and developed many of those primes, so that means something!)

However, this zoom lens is not considered any longer just as a brilliant piece of glass, it has long become a collectors item which accounts for the called prices.

Yeah, but what good is it if you cant even buy a leica R dslr?


If you can afford that lens, you can afford the new "M" (type 240) and use it Leica-exclusively!

using a reflex lens on a rf body is a bad compromise...


Then get a Nikon D800 and the Leitax-Adapter. It should even work with a Leitax adapter on an EOS.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Since 2 years I have on my desk a second hand price list of a large and well known German photo magazin with prices valid 2010.
At that time the used price for the lens above was around 3.500 Euro . It was the #1 in the "normal" range - only few special APO tele and supertele lenses have had a higher price.

Since 2010 the pricelevel for Leica R lenses increased between 30% up to 100 % and more. For example a APO elmarit 2.8/70-180mm hav had a price in 2010 of 2.200 Euro, today you will find normally no offer below 4.000 Euro. The same is with the lens above.

There are some buyers at Asia which will pay such prices. Maybe that he will not reach the actual asking price but with a discount of 10 % to 15 % I'm sure that he will find a buyer - the seller needs only time and one day he will find one.

Is the lens worth this price ? I don't know. Is a Ferrari or Porsche the price worth ? Or a Rolex ? Or, or.... ?

Wink


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, this is no Ferrari or Porsche. It's just a fricking f2.8 2x no AF zoom. Frankly I don't see a point. If it had AF, perhaps some event photographer could need that. As it is, it's still a lens for "thoughtful deliberate photography". Given that, for about the same money I would rather get 35mm Asph Summilux, 90mm Apo-summicron with a "cheap" 50mm Summicron thrown in and get a much faster higher quality kit, with wider FL range, that better fits with Leica philosophy too.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I said:

LucisPictor wrote:

However, this zoom lens is not considered any longer just as a brilliant piece of glass, it has long become a collectors item which accounts for the called prices.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:
Rolf wrote:

Since 2010 the pricelevel for Leica R lenses increased between 30% up to 100 % and more. For example a APO elmarit 2.8/70-180mm hav had a price in 2010 of 2.200 Euro, today you will find normally no offer below 4.000 Euro. The same is with the lens above.


I see the same steep price increase of 50% to 200% in the last two years in many collectors items be it lenses, cars, art or whatever.
For example the Nikon 6mm fish-eye also seems to double in price every 6 to 9 months. My business card does not say economist, however part of my day to day job is, to have a realistic picture of global economy and financial systems. Sorry for being off-topic, but the level of inflation seen at the moment in any good of limited quantity is not very surprising to me, and I predict that it will continue for some time.

I have no doubt that the lens will be sold and probably in two years time for double the amount again.

Both inflation and the collectables markets have been almost flat since the financial meltdown of 2008, I dont see the kind of price increases you are quoting lately at all....


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure that art/collectibles prices follow the same pattern. That being said, I am skeptical about the 2 year prognosis for this particular lens: this is relatively expensive, but mass produced, non-exclusive and hard to cash item. Stocking up on such lenses is kind of similar to buying crates of Louis Vuiton bags.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
gold is not a collectable. The collectables markets have been hit hard like real estate in the last 5 years....


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Depends on what you call "collectable". If it's something that middle class might collect (e.g. pretty useless f2.8 MF zooms or some 1900 porcelain), then I might agree with you. If it's something that costs real money, e.g. 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, then I think you will find price increase that is well inline with the gold chart that I've posted.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
fermy wrote:
Depends on what you call "collectable". If it's something that middle class might collect (e.g. pretty useless f2.8 MF zooms or some 1900 porcelain), then I might agree with you. If it's something that costs real money, e.g. 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, then I think you will find price increase that is well inline with the gold chart that I've posted.

Even collectable cars have gone down in price, just look at top line muscle cars, they peaked in 2007 along with realty. Sure there are some exceptions but in general collectables have taken a hit in recent years. The point of my earlier post was that I dont agree that collectable lenses are doubling in price in six months or a year. the rate of increase is there but much less than that amount.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I hear tulips are good. Maybe I missed that boat.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hifisapi wrote:

Even collectable cars have gone down in price, just look at top line muscle cars, they peaked in 2007 along with realty. Sure there are some exceptions but in general collectables have taken a hit in recent years. The point of my earlier post was that I dont agree that collectable lenses are doubling in price in six months or a year. the rate of increase is there but much less than that amount.


I don't agree either, and I would bet that this lens won't be sold for 14K in 2 years. The point is that it's a luxury item for middle class and of no interest to filthy rich people (perhaps with a couple of exceptions), so that puts a cap on its top price. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if the price of Summilux-R doubles in two years.
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